Florida Teen Saves Family With Gun Training and Pistol

[lars573]

3 words, ash baseball bat. No need for a pistol if you got a bat. This is hardly a good example for allowing people to have pistols. In fact IMO using guns was not justified at all.

[scooter_the_shooter]

I'll keep my cz75 and 16+1 rounds of 9mm thank you. Besides why do you want to take away my gun, what did I ever do to you . I am not going to hurt any one that isn't trying to kill me.\

You want to take the criminals' guns great! But dont even think about mine



My god I just read all my post in this thread I kinda' look like a jerk



Frag if you kill them (dead men don't sue), would you still be in trouble over there or not.

[Fragony]

Frag if you kill them (dead men don't sue), would you still be in trouble over there or not.

#1 rule in the Netherlands: never call the police. First of all it's of no use, and more importantly, you will probably end up screwed yourselve. So if you find a burglar you have two options, let him take everything and fight it out with your insurance compagny later, or chop him up and dump him. If you hit him you will have 'assaulted' him, which is a more dire crime then burglary. If the burglar then puts charges on you he will win, the breaking and entering would be instantly forgotten because of the more hidious crime of trying to defend your property. Yes, being a criminal rocks here.

[ShadesPanther]

#1 rule in the Netherlands: never call the police. First of all it's of no use, and more importantly, you will probably end up screwed yourselve. So if you find a burglar you have two options, let him take everything and fight it out with your insurance compagny later, or chop him up and dump him. If you hit him you will have 'assaulted' him, which is a more dire crime then burglary. If the burglar then puts charges on you he will win, the breaking and entering would be instantly forgotten because of the more hidious crime of trying to defend your property. Yes, being a criminal rocks here.

I should move to Holland. Then I can pillage, rape and maim all I want and smoke weed too.

[Idaho]

I'm definately convinced by the article. I hope everyone can walk around with all kinds of dangerous weapons. It's bound to make the world safer.

[Tribesman]

If accurate -- and I will credit you with an accurate assessment of your own country's laws and practices
Thats a big IF, so hold on with the credit there Seamus .
Notice this bit....This is how we do it in lalaland. Guy comes home, finds burglar, burglar grabs knife, guy grabs knive, burglar aquires unnecesary ventilation and dies. Now is this self-defence thou ask, it would certainly seem so, nope, guy has to go to jail for manslaughter.
.....interesting huh , shocking , and bullshit ......Guy comes home, finds burglar, burglar grabs knife, guy grabs knive, If the burglar has the knife first the homeowner get the self defence provision .
Also a criminal with a weapon is commiting an entirely different crime than one without a weapon , in this case that would be aggravated burglary , though in the example put forward it would stick at that as the burglar took the knife from the house , if he bought his own knife it would be aggravated burglary with intent , which is an even more serious charge .
And of course serious charges involving violence or the intent to violence , get different treatment .......Not sure how it works with rape, I believe rape is also regarded as a violent crime. Violent crimes carry more weight then crimes that involve loss of property, so beat up a burglar and you have commited a more serious crime then him.

So Frag , considering your long running "unique" interpretations of Dutch legal cases , could you provide any details of cases involving homeowners killing armed intruders then being found guilty ?

[Fragony]

So Frag , considering your long running "unique" interpretations of Dutch legal cases , could you provide any details of cases involving homeowners killing armed intruders then being found guilty ?

Well here is one, fast huh

http://www.nieuwnieuws.nl/archives/2...eersteken.html

[Ronin]

so despite all the thousands of deaths every year from fire arms one person managed to make a correct use of one?


well....woooopty freaking doo!!!

I´m converted!!!...no really!!!! I want a gun now!!! were do i sign up?

[Ser Clegane]

Also I have a clear opinion regarding the regulation of gun ownership, i.e. favouring rather restrictive regulations (at least for countries where it currently is regulated - the situation is abit different for countries like the US, where guns are already so spread that regulations would be extremely difficult to implement), I have to admit that the pro-gunners have a bit of an unfair disadvantage when it comes to statistics that prove their position.

It is certainly much easier to statistically measure deaths caused by guns than lives saved by guns - for the latter you rather have to rely on anecdotal evidence as it will be next to impossible to show statistics with a bullet-proof methodology.

[scooter_the_shooter]

so despite all the thousands of deaths every year from fire arms one person managed to make a correct use of one?


well....woooopty freaking doo!!!

I´m converted!!!...no really!!!! I want a gun now!!! were do i sign up?

They manage to use them in defense 2.5 million time a year in good ol' USA, And the good news is you don't need to sign up in my state (unless it's a handgun )

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I´m converted!!!...no really!!!! I want a gun now!!! were do i sign up?

In Lisbon, I do not know. Here in the USA, you can try a Wal-Mart.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

On the gun control topic (sorry if someone mentioned this, I didn't read everything):

A gun is a tool, not a toy. It can be bent to do your will. If guns are outlawed, knives will simply be used more often.

The problem is not the weapon, it is the responsibility with which it is used. Take Switzerland as an example. HOWEVER, that being said, a gun can obviously be used for evil. What if that man had a firearm on his person? I would be more likely to fire at a person with a weapon pointing at me then a person who is unarmed, personally.

I am not an advocate of gun control, BUT I believe that all weapons should be stored properly, and that every legal owner of a firearm must pass a basic safety course.

[Tribesman]

In the case above, as Tribesman says, the man was not a threat. Therefore it was murder to shoot him.
The conviction in the Martin case was reduced on appeal from murder to manslaughter , the other case to which I refer (there is a topic on it here somewhere) is currently being appealed as the manslaughter conviction is a joke , it was definately murder .
Now while in the second case I think the farmer did the area a favour and probably should have killed the rest of the family while he was at it . It doesn't change the fact that the law is the law .
And if you break the law then you pay the consequences , as set out by law .
edit to add
http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1111/nallyp.html
Nally screwed himself with his own testimony (which is why the appeal will come out and change the manslaughter conviction )that he kept beating Frog with the stick (after first shooting him) because he was like a bad badger that wouldn't die , so to then return to the house , reload his weapon and kill the thief it makes it murder .

[Tribesman]

It's a piece of metal it can't do anything. I am sick of the wacky left making it sound like they just "go off" and have minds of their own
Hmmmmmm.... read what you wrote in post #25 . You are at it again Ceasar
Look......Having a loaded 30/30 in the bed of your pickup while driving around town is irresponsible and foolish....if you cannot see what is wrong with having a weapon , loaded or unloaded in the open bed of a pickup truck driving around town(or country for that matter) then perhaps you need a few lessons in responsible gun ownership .

[scooter_the_shooter]

Any one have a link to this incedent, I doubt it was in the bed of the pick up.

[solypsist]

american citizens should be allowed to keep whatever they want, gun-wise, on their property. i'm not pro-gun, i'm just anti-the-government-taking-my-sh**-away-from-me.

[Tribesman]

I doubt it was in the bed of the pick up.
So if it was indeed on the bed of the pick up would it be a problem ? Remember , it is just a piece of metal , right

[Seamus Fermanagh]

#1 rule in the Netherlands: never call the police. First of all it's of no use, and more importantly, you will probably end up screwed yourselve. So if you find a burglar you have two options, let him take everything and fight it out with your insurance compagny later, or chop him up and dump him. If you hit him you will have 'assaulted' him, which is a more dire crime then burglary. If the burglar then puts charges on you he will win, the breaking and entering would be instantly forgotten because of the more hidious crime of trying to defend your property. Yes, being a criminal rocks here.

If accurate -- and I will credit you with an accurate assessment of your own country's laws and practices -- does this not implicitly mean that you have no right to your own property? The application of justice you mention favors the criminals right of person OVER your right to your property. So you could only defend your daughter, without threat of jail for your actions, DURING and not just prior to her rape, since only then has a crime of person been committed? (Yes the example is hyperbolic). If so, I am glad that Die Nederlunds have legalized most substances -- you've got to keep the criminal element happily stoned to avoid losing everything.

[Fragony]

If accurate -- and I will credit you with an accurate assessment of your own country's laws and practices -- does this not implicitly mean that you have no right to your own property? The application of justice you mention favors the criminals right of person OVER your right to your property. So you could only defend your daughter, without threat of jail for your actions, DURING and not just prior to her rape, since only then has a crime of person been committed? (Yes the example is hyperbolic). If so, I am glad that Die Nederlunds have legalized most substances -- you've got to keep the criminal element happily stoned to avoid losing everything.

So your daughter is your property, that is pretty oldschool

Not sure how it works with rape, I believe rape is also regarded as a violent crime. Violent crimes carry more weight then crimes that involve loss of property, so beat up a burglar and you have commited a more serious crime then him. It may change though, there have been some politicians talking about how it is worth it to talk about discussing the right to self-defence.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

So your daughter is your property, that is pretty oldschool

Thanks for the wink. As you surmised, my statement did NOT equate the two nor do I place a lesser value on women in any way, shape, or form. Prole' would ace me if I thought that way, and she'd be correct, though I would probably have been offed by the wife before then.

Not sure how it works with rape, I believe rape is also regarded as a violent crime. Violent crimes carry more weight then crimes that involve loss of property, so beat up a burglar and you have commited a more serious crime then him. It may change though, there have been some politicians talking about how it is worth it to talk about discussing the right to self-defence.

I was trying to emphasize that, in your example, only when the crime being committed had risen to the level of a crime against another person, and not merely the threat of same, would violence be justified. I prefer a more aggressive form of self defence and consider property rights central to a functioning capitalist republic. If you cross my threshold without permission, I should have the right to blow you back across it with nearly anything short of a WMD.

[Tribesman]

Slight tangent Banquo , but did you hear Frogs wife giving testimony classic
Off topic a bit more , she is up on nearly 2 dozen charges next month .

[The_Mark]

3 words, ash baseball bat.

I prefer a composite/carbon fibre one.

[BHCWarman88]

3 words, ash baseball bat. No need for a pistol if you got a bat. This is hardly a good example for allowing people to have pistols. In fact IMO using guns was not justified at all.

a Bat does Shit if he has a Gun man.. using a Gun is and was Justified in this Case,he Didn't have a Gun,but so what. He could have gave the Bat as you swang,or avoid the Knfie Stab and tackle you from behind.. Using a Gun is Better then a Bat or w/e.. I see nothing wrong with Guns for Self Defense..


here a Story I made up

Say,Guns are Ban for Sale,period..

Someone Breaks into your house one Night,4:00 AM, and he has a 9mm pistol.. Now, if you had your .44 Magnum,you could fight back,and hopefully subdue Him,but Since Guns are Banned, and he got one Illegaly, you got nothing to fight back with,and he kills you and your Family..


what you guys Prefer?? #1 or the Story #2

[Ser Clegane]

Someone Breaks into your house one Night,4:00 AM, and he has a 9mm pistol.. Now, if you had your .44 Magnum,you could fight back,and hopefully subdue Him,but Since Guns are Banned, and he got one Illegaly, you got nothing to fight back with,and he kills you and your Family..


what you guys Prefer?? #1 or the Story #2

How about that the guy actually only intended to hold you up and rob you - however, with your Magnum you turn the whole situation into a life or death situation where you potentially risk your and your families' life for your possessions.
See - it's easy to make up situations.

[scooter_the_shooter]

How about that the guy actually only intended to hold you up and rob you - however, with your Magnum you turn the whole situation into a life or death situation where you potentially risk your and your families' life for your possessions.
See - it's easy to make up situations.

You shoot him or get shot...pretty black and white to me.

and to answer your other question. You never know when you may need that rifle. It doesn't hurt anything to keep it there so why not.


I don't keep one in a truck cause I am not old enough. I have plenty of guns ranging from old police revolvers to an ak47, but all my purchases are borderline legal.

[English assassin]

and to answer your other question. You never know when you may need that rifle. It doesn't hurt anything to keep it there so why not.

This is exactly why I keep my circular saw plugged in and on the living room table, instead of put away in its case in the workshop. You just never know when you are going to need a circular saw.

[Redleg]

This is exactly why I keep my circular saw plugged in and on the living room table, instead of put away in its case in the workshop. You just never know when you are going to need a circular saw.

That is why I have a rechargable DeWalt drill/driver in my bedroom. I never know if I will need a phillips or standard screwdriver - or if I need to drill a hole in something......

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Actually its back in the garage - my remodel project is completed. Advice: is make sure the wife knows that when she wants the master bath and bedroom remodeled - that she has an idea where she wants everything. But remodeling yourself is fun if you have the basic skills necessary. Now I need a electrian to finish up some wiring projects....

[BHCWarman88]

How about that the guy actually only intended to hold you up and rob you - however, with your Magnum you turn the whole situation into a life or death situation where you potentially risk your and your families' life for your possessions.
See - it's easy to make up situations.

So,it be a life or Death Situation anyhow if he breaks in your House,whatever reson it may be..

[Ser Clegane]

So,it be a life or Death Situation anyhow if he breaks in your House,whatever reson it may be..

Perhaps it's different in the US - but here most burglars break into houses to steall stuff and not to kill everybody who lives there. I wouldn't call that a life or death situation.

By that logic you could blame everything on the victim.

Robber: “It’s the homeowner’s fault, if he didn’t have all that cool stuff I never would have robbed him.”

Robber: “It’s the homeowner’s fault, if he didn’t have a gun I never would have shot him.”

Robber: “It’s the homeowner’s fault, if he didn’t have a gorgeous wife I never would have shot him and raped her.”

You make it seem like trying to protect yourself is a bad thing

I cannot quite follow the connection you are making between my statement and the examples you are giving.

My statement did not even imply that a burglar has the right to break into your house and steal things.
I said that by confronting an armed burglar with a gun you might actually create a life and death situation (i.e. putting your life and the life of your family at risk) when originally you "only" had a burglary.

You shoot him or get shot...pretty black and white to me

Indeed - as soon as you confront an armed burglar it probably boils down to that. I tend to value my life and that of my family higher than any possessions a burglar might take.

[yesdachi]

How about that the guy actually only intended to hold you up and rob you - however, with your Magnum you turn the whole situation into a life or death situation where you potentially risk your and your families' life for your possessions.
See - it's easy to make up situations.

By that logic you could blame everything on the victim.

Robber: “It’s the homeowner’s fault, if he didn’t have all that cool stuff I never would have robbed him.”

Robber: “It’s the homeowner’s fault, if he didn’t have a gun I never would have shot him.”

Robber: “It’s the homeowner’s fault, if he didn’t have a gorgeous wife I never would have shot him and raped her.”

You make it seem like trying to protect yourself is a bad thing.