I have never bothered to build spies. It seemed like a lot of effort for very little return. Am I missing out?
I have never bothered to build spies. It seemed like a lot of effort for very little return. Am I missing out?
I must admit that I am not a huge user of spies.
I am only playing Vanilla MTW at this stage and so I have also given up on assassins as they cause very little carnage and are very hard to valour up.
What good are spies??? Telling of invasions that may or may not occur seems a little "iffy" as a benfit. Opening gates is of benifit.
What are other players main uses for spies or do they not bother???
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I've seen that screen a couple of times. Once it was to inform me that another country was going to attack my provence. I saved that year and played it twice, once was not doing anything at all and the other country did attack when the spy said it would. The second time, I moved a defensive army into the provence, and the other country never attacked me. I think the actions that you, or the other countries take affect whether the comp follows through on its plans.
I don't know if it helps, I really don't use spies all that much.
Every weapon has evolved from the same basic design, either a rock or a sharp pointy stick.
Starting rebellions behind enemy lines is a nice feature![]()
Abandon all hope.
This has happened to me, I was informed that the french were going to invade normandy. So I reinforced normandy, and they attacked and lost.
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But when one really knows, one has no need of religion. - Mahavyuha Sutra
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I don't care if spies can open gate of enemy fort/keep/castle/citadel/fortress as I never assault them through gate. I always destroy walls and then attack. Gate is small and AI always put some hard to kill unit in gate.
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@ Duke of Serbia - you use spies to end the siege on the campaign map, not the battle map. Drop a spy onto the castle, then if he succeeds, you will get a message saying "Your agents opened the gates at night. Great victory with few losses" or similar. It seems the longer the spy has been in the province, the more likely he is to open the gate (but it might be the longer you wait, the fewer defenders there are to catch him as well).Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia
Last edited by macsen rufus; 06-09-2006 at 12:29.
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Using spies in substantial numbers have become mainstay of my play since my first Byzantium campaign.
In middle phase of the game, as are the big empires created (10 + provinces) and I get to border one of them I use spies (at least 5 at once) to stir revolts behind enemy lines. I choose the provinces with ports and weakly defended with loyalty unde 150% if possible. These 5 spies are very likely to prepare nice rebellion, and they get a star. Then I continue the process ad move somewhere else, supplementing losses with new spies and eventually I breed 10 and more spies. 10 spies with 4 and more stars are ready to make almost any province rebellious.
Costs: the spies get killed, therefore I try never to move them alone (only in groups) via territories containing border towers/forts. In later phases of game I use 2-3 groups of 10 spies each.
Benefits: the revolts are wonderful. even if only peasants, UMs or other crap units appear.It costs AI some troops, time to suppress it. In happy moments when some stronger units join the revolt you can change the course of the game. (I was able to wrestle province of Egypt from Egyptians - ironically - whose empire at that time stretched from Granada to Anatolia in my current campaign. The Rebels held to it for more than 80 years, when they were bribed by the French). The Eggies never took it back and their communications were weakened.
The buildings of provinces that rebel get damage. So even one turn of control by rebels will destroy fort here, border tower there...AI rarely rebuilds and the loss of ports, border towers weakens it.
You can send spies and stir revolts while you are allied or neutral with the target nation. If one of my allies goes big, I go spy.
Dangers: reappearances. If there are revolts on the territory than has once belonged to extinct empire, the risk of reappearance is increased, I think. It can pose a threat if you weaken one nation by revolts, that can pave the way for reappearing of stronger enemy, who can suddenly materialize in various provinces, even in your own.
Nevertheless, especially while playing GA and one of my close friends has too many armies, GA points, the spies are my recipe.
And another one to DukeOfSerbia:
The opening of gate by spies is bit different...By dropping a spy on the castle (during the siege, when you own the province and enemy hides inside) you get a note mentioning the percentage of success to open the gate.
If you proceed and are successful, you will receive the intact undamaged castle next turn with no need of direct assault!
It is hard to open crowded castle, bud medium size castles with small garrison are easily opened.
If you will not succeed, the spy is lost and siege continues.
With spies trained to 6 stars by repeated rebellions it is a piece of cake...
The revelation of invasion plans is only the little benefit added to other important roles of spies.
And, as I have read in the guides, the presence of spy in your own province makes life for enemy assassins more difficult or - to be precise - their death more easy.
Yes. Basically you should have at least a spy in every one of your provinces. Whenever a rival assassin or spy enters, your spy will attempt to catch them. If he does, then he gains valour making him more effective overall. If there is a border fort in the province, then that will tend to catch rival assassins/spies rendering your spies useless in this function. This is why I never construct border forts. Instead I keep about 3 spies per province. Once a spy gains sufficient valour he is moved from guarding the home provinces and sent on foreign missions, giving others a chance to valour up.Originally Posted by jadast
These spies in your provinces also help improve loyalty (happiness) within a province. This helps to stabilise recently conquered extremely disloyal provinces.
Spies can also open the castle gates during a siege and allow for an easy victory (a message only to inform you that you've captured the castle, not an actual battle).
Also spies can orchestrate a treason trial, if you have a few disloyal generals to dispose of you can drag spies over them and try them for treason, if successful the general will be executed and your other generals should become more loyal.
Your spies are useful for revealing the secret vices of rival faction generals. This works by dragging the spy over the general as above.
Spies can lower the loyalty/happiness of rival faction's provinces. The opposite of the effect they have in your own provinces. Keeping a good high valour spy in a rival province (preferably without a border fort, which catches every assassin/spy, with a valour less than 5, that passes through) can cause a revolt to either the rebels or loyalists to the previous owner. It can also trigger a faction reappearance. When a revolt occurs the spy that caused it gains valour, as do all other spies in the province. Their effect however is not cumulative. (Applies to MTW/VI 2.01)
All of this makes the spy a very worthwhile agent. Assassins can also be valoured up by counterspying as with spies, better preparing them for their missions.
“The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France
"The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis
In my current HRE game my spies have -
- Kept my lands loyal
- Encouraged an English re-appearance in their original lands at the cost of the French.
- Warned of Byzantine, Novgorod, and Egyptian attacks in time for me to move troops to guard against losses.
- Opened castle gates in Flanders, Constantinople, and Livonia.
- Kept my interior safe from Assassins and Spies.
Pretty good for about 150 florins and no upkeep.
mfberg
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Pinky : Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?
Brain : The same thing we do every night Pinky. Try to take over the world!
I had forgotten how useful spies and the such can be.
Mental Note: Read The Prince
Conquer the World via guile and subterfuge.
Every weapon has evolved from the same basic design, either a rock or a sharp pointy stick.
Yeah, spies can reveal impending invasions of the AI, and even though they don't always go through, it's still a very cool feature. (and you could argue that it's realistic that invasions don't always occur at the planned time)
Spies in MTW are awesome. They can:
-increase loyalty in your own lands
-decrease loyalty in enemy lands
-help catch enemy assasins and spies
-open gates of besieged forts
-stage treason trials (wich is awesome, I suppose you could even use them to dispose of incompetent heirs)
-reveal the enemy's hidden vices
-reveal impending invasions by the AI
I wish I still had MTW/VI. I was more then a little disapointed with what you could do with RTW agents. I hope MTW2 will incorporate most of the original features in MTW.
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Yes, spies are great tools for disrupting your enemies and manging your own empire. Back to topic: in S:TW, and likely also in M:TW, there are two types of A.I. invasions: opportunistic ones and planned ones. The former happened when the computer had a powerful army near an ill-defended border. The latter were coordinated affairs, where the computer concentrated troops near or at the border, and of these your shinobi (spies) could forewarn you. I've even had warning of planned invasions into the territory of other factions. However, if the borders were strenghtened, or the A.I. became distracted by another war, the attack would most often be canceled.
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@macsen rufus
@Sirron
Thanks both of you. I never used spies when I played MTW. Then came on market RTW and I massively used spies. After positive experience I started to use them in MTW but only if I don’t know what to do with money. I know that spies in RTW can open enemy gates, so I thought the same thing they do in MTW. But, I was wrong.
Thanks again.
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