Spies revealed invasion plans!?

[DukeofSerbia]

I play MTW VI several years but I never saw something like that. I always thought that spy can only reveal general vices and virtues. But I was surprised when my spies with only one valor revealed in the same turn plans of invasion of England and Kieavans. Now they have two valors.

Can somebody tell me what is going on here?

Btw, it’s XL mod.

[Matty]

This is quite common, as long as the spy hangs around long enough without being assassinated.

My rarest one is when I get informed one of my armies has been bribed. Only happened once.

[The Stranger]

yeah i use it all the time, though the reports are usually rubbish and almost never come true. atleast that's my xp

[Mithrandir]

It's helpful, the reports usually dont come true for me either though...
a pre-emptive strike is all I need

[DukeofSerbia]

In my current Byzantienes campaign Kiavans and English are in 30 years long war but now English really started to attack with massive armies. Kieavans are in war with Novgorod and they finally started to beat them. So, those reports are quite accurate at least in my campaigh.

As I said, I saw this first time.

[The Stranger]

yeah but thats not my point. they dont come true when the spy tells it should come true. they usually say it will happen next year, but it barely does

[Sirron]

Happens few time in each of my campaigns. However I prefer to use 2-3 gangs of about 10 spies, who hang around the enemy provinces.
However, I have never recieved anything about bribing of my armies (as mentioned above).

[Sirron]

..and one to DukeofSerbia: you mentioned that you have known only about vice and vices revelation as the function of the spy.

Do not forget to open castle gates during sieges with your spies, which sometimes helps a lot, especially if you use experienced ones!

[jadast]

I have never bothered to build spies. It seemed like a lot of effort for very little return. Am I missing out?

[El Diablo]

I must admit that I am not a huge user of spies.

I am only playing Vanilla MTW at this stage and so I have also given up on assassins as they cause very little carnage and are very hard to valour up.

What good are spies??? Telling of invasions that may or may not occur seems a little "iffy" as a benfit. Opening gates is of benifit.

What are other players main uses for spies or do they not bother???

[Sensei Warrior]

I've seen that screen a couple of times. Once it was to inform me that another country was going to attack my provence. I saved that year and played it twice, once was not doing anything at all and the other country did attack when the spy said it would. The second time, I moved a defensive army into the provence, and the other country never attacked me. I think the actions that you, or the other countries take affect whether the comp follows through on its plans.

I don't know if it helps, I really don't use spies all that much.

[Mithrandir]

Starting rebellions behind enemy lines is a nice feature

[naut]

This has happened to me, I was informed that the french were going to invade normandy. So I reinforced normandy, and they attacked and lost.

[DukeofSerbia]

I don't care if spies can open gate of enemy fort/keep/castle/citadel/fortress as I never assault them through gate. I always destroy walls and then attack. Gate is small and AI always put some hard to kill unit in gate.

[Sirron]

Using spies in substantial numbers have become mainstay of my play since my first Byzantium campaign.

In middle phase of the game, as are the big empires created (10 + provinces) and I get to border one of them I use spies (at least 5 at once) to stir revolts behind enemy lines. I choose the provinces with ports and weakly defended with loyalty unde 150% if possible. These 5 spies are very likely to prepare nice rebellion, and they get a star. Then I continue the process ad move somewhere else, supplementing losses with new spies and eventually I breed 10 and more spies. 10 spies with 4 and more stars are ready to make almost any province rebellious.

Costs: the spies get killed, therefore I try never to move them alone (only in groups) via territories containing border towers/forts. In later phases of game I use 2-3 groups of 10 spies each.

Benefits: the revolts are wonderful. even if only peasants, UMs or other crap units appear.It costs AI some troops, time to suppress it. In happy moments when some stronger units join the revolt you can change the course of the game. (I was able to wrestle province of Egypt from Egyptians - ironically - whose empire at that time stretched from Granada to Anatolia in my current campaign. The Rebels held to it for more than 80 years, when they were bribed by the French). The Eggies never took it back and their communications were weakened.

The buildings of provinces that rebel get damage. So even one turn of control by rebels will destroy fort here, border tower there...AI rarely rebuilds and the loss of ports, border towers weakens it.

You can send spies and stir revolts while you are allied or neutral with the target nation. If one of my allies goes big, I go spy.

Dangers: reappearances. If there are revolts on the territory than has once belonged to extinct empire, the risk of reappearance is increased, I think. It can pose a threat if you weaken one nation by revolts, that can pave the way for reappearing of stronger enemy, who can suddenly materialize in various provinces, even in your own.


Nevertheless, especially while playing GA and one of my close friends has too many armies, GA points, the spies are my recipe.

[Sirron]

And another one to DukeOfSerbia:

The opening of gate by spies is bit different...By dropping a spy on the castle (during the siege, when you own the province and enemy hides inside) you get a note mentioning the percentage of success to open the gate.

If you proceed and are successful, you will receive the intact undamaged castle next turn with no need of direct assault!

It is hard to open crowded castle, bud medium size castles with small garrison are easily opened.

If you will not succeed, the spy is lost and siege continues.

With spies trained to 6 stars by repeated rebellions it is a piece of cake...

The revelation of invasion plans is only the little benefit added to other important roles of spies.

And, as I have read in the guides, the presence of spy in your own province makes life for enemy assassins more difficult or - to be precise - their death more easy.

[macsen rufus]

I don't care if spies can open gate of enemy fort/keep/castle/citadel/fortress as I never assault them through gate. I always destroy walls and then attack. Gate is small and AI always put some hard to kill unit in gate.

@ Duke of Serbia - you use spies to end the siege on the campaign map, not the battle map. Drop a spy onto the castle, then if he succeeds, you will get a message saying "Your agents opened the gates at night. Great victory with few losses" or similar. It seems the longer the spy has been in the province, the more likely he is to open the gate (but it might be the longer you wait, the fewer defenders there are to catch him as well).

[caravel]

I have never bothered to build spies. It seemed like a lot of effort for very little return. Am I missing out?

Yes. Basically you should have at least a spy in every one of your provinces. Whenever a rival assassin or spy enters, your spy will attempt to catch them. If he does, then he gains valour making him more effective overall. If there is a border fort in the province, then that will tend to catch rival assassins/spies rendering your spies useless in this function. This is why I never construct border forts. Instead I keep about 3 spies per province. Once a spy gains sufficient valour he is moved from guarding the home provinces and sent on foreign missions, giving others a chance to valour up.

These spies in your provinces also help improve loyalty (happiness) within a province. This helps to stabilise recently conquered extremely disloyal provinces.

Spies can also open the castle gates during a siege and allow for an easy victory (a message only to inform you that you've captured the castle, not an actual battle).

Also spies can orchestrate a treason trial, if you have a few disloyal generals to dispose of you can drag spies over them and try them for treason, if successful the general will be executed and your other generals should become more loyal.

Your spies are useful for revealing the secret vices of rival faction generals. This works by dragging the spy over the general as above.

Spies can lower the loyalty/happiness of rival faction's provinces. The opposite of the effect they have in your own provinces. Keeping a good high valour spy in a rival province (preferably without a border fort, which catches every assassin/spy, with a valour less than 5, that passes through) can cause a revolt to either the rebels or loyalists to the previous owner. It can also trigger a faction reappearance. When a revolt occurs the spy that caused it gains valour, as do all other spies in the province. Their effect however is not cumulative. (Applies to MTW/VI 2.01)

All of this makes the spy a very worthwhile agent. Assassins can also be valoured up by counterspying as with spies, better preparing them for their missions.

[mfberg]

In my current HRE game my spies have -
- Kept my lands loyal
- Encouraged an English re-appearance in their original lands at the cost of the French.
- Warned of Byzantine, Novgorod, and Egyptian attacks in time for me to move troops to guard against losses.
- Opened castle gates in Flanders, Constantinople, and Livonia.
- Kept my interior safe from Assassins and Spies.

Pretty good for about 150 florins and no upkeep.

mfberg

[Sensei Warrior]

I had forgotten how useful spies and the such can be.

Mental Note: Read The Prince
Conquer the World via guile and subterfuge.

[Kralizec]

Yeah, spies can reveal impending invasions of the AI, and even though they don't always go through, it's still a very cool feature. (and you could argue that it's realistic that invasions don't always occur at the planned time)

Spies in MTW are awesome. They can:

-increase loyalty in your own lands
-decrease loyalty in enemy lands
-help catch enemy assasins and spies
-open gates of besieged forts
-stage treason trials (wich is awesome, I suppose you could even use them to dispose of incompetent heirs)
-reveal the enemy's hidden vices
-reveal impending invasions by the AI

I wish I still had MTW/VI. I was more then a little disapointed with what you could do with RTW agents. I hope MTW2 will incorporate most of the original features in MTW.

[Ludens]

Yes, spies are great tools for disrupting your enemies and manging your own empire. Back to topic: in S:TW, and likely also in M:TW, there are two types of A.I. invasions: opportunistic ones and planned ones. The former happened when the computer had a powerful army near an ill-defended border. The latter were coordinated affairs, where the computer concentrated troops near or at the border, and of these your shinobi (spies) could forewarn you. I've even had warning of planned invasions into the territory of other factions. However, if the borders were strenghtened, or the A.I. became distracted by another war, the attack would most often be canceled.

[DukeofSerbia]

@macsen rufus
@Sirron

Thanks both of you. I never used spies when I played MTW. Then came on market RTW and I massively used spies. After positive experience I started to use them in MTW but only if I don’t know what to do with money. I know that spies in RTW can open enemy gates, so I thought the same thing they do in MTW. But, I was wrong.
Thanks again.

[Ciaran]

Even with all they can do (and I didn´t know that prewarning feature until I played Pike and Musket), I still think them too much of a bother to get in large enough numbers to be effective. Assassins are even worse, for that matter. As counter-spies at best, but I rarely send them abroad. I just don´t get what good knowing the vices and virtues is.

[Deus ret.]

AFAIK it's not plain "revelation", it's rather an uncovering of hitherto unknown traits (i.e. vices) of the target general. which may be of little impact (e.g. Adultery on a mere general) or quite devastating (like Unhinged Loon on the enemy king ) so it's up to you if you want to use your spies for these tasks. higher valour ones can be VERY able in this.

[DukeofSerbia]

AFAIK it's not plain "revelation", it's rather an uncovering of hitherto unknown traits (i.e. vices) of the target general. which may be of little impact (e.g. Adultery on a mere general) or quite devastating (like Unhinged Loon on the enemy king ) so it's up to you if you want to use your spies for these tasks. higher valour ones can be VERY able in this.

I only once managed that my spy revealed on some Polish general Blackmailer VnV. He rebeled next turn in civil war as he had 0 loyalty after he has been exposed.

And my friend in current Byzantine campaign with spy revealed on some Kievan general Glutonny VnV.