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How about Socrates & Aristoteles? They influenced both, the Islamic and the Christian world in their thinking...Right?!?
Originally Posted by Subedei:
How about Socrates & Aristoteles? They influenced both, the Islamic and the Christian world in their thinking...Right?!?
You do realiza both of these philosophers lived more than 300(or further im tired and woke up) years before Christianity right?How about Socrates & Aristoteles? They influenced both, the Islamic and the Christian world in their thinking...Right?!?
double post
I doubt it was any major impact. Even if influenced, the influence would be largely gone by the time Christianity became a major religion.
Modern world could possibly be different. I still think Jesus had the most impact on the world, but politically, and in the 'modern' world, I'd say it was a tie between Gaus and Marx. They developed Socialism which spawned Communism, and now the big 'free' nations ar obsessing over Communists and Socialists.
Originally Posted by IrishArmenian:
Modern world could possibly be different. I still think Jesus had the most impact on the world, but politically, and in the 'modern' world, I'd say it was a tie between Gaus and Marx. They developed Socialism which spawned Communism, and now the big 'free' nations ar obsessing over Communists and Socialists.
That obsessing is just the death throes of the outdated and obsolete theories of capitalism as it morphs into corporate consumerism, which is something entirely different trying to use the same old symbology; proving in the end that Bakunin and Kropotkin and others since were, in fact, right. Modern world could possibly be different. I still think Jesus had the most impact on the world, but politically, and in the 'modern' world, I'd say it was a tie between Gaus and Marx. They developed Socialism which spawned Communism, and now the big 'free' nations ar obsessing over Communists and Socialists.
Hmm... I forgot about the philosophers. They might well be in the running.
An example of Greek philosophers influencing Christian thinking: St Thomas Aquinas drew heavily on Aristotle's thinking when arguing for the existence of God. I'll leave it to Sjak or someone to flesh this out if necessary - I'm done with my philosphy course.
An example of Greek philosophers influencing Christian thinking: St Thomas Aquinas drew heavily on Aristotle's thinking when arguing for the existence of God. I'll leave it to Sjak or someone to flesh this out if necessary - I'm done with my philosphy course.
The man with the most impact on history? Why, that would be this man:
To find out why, click below:
To find out why, click below:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Stating that Aristotle and Plato did not influence Christianity because they lived 400 years before Christ is... well... not really commentable.
Both philosophers had a Humangous impact on Christianity. The latter - despite what most people seem to think about it - was originally a fusion of the Judaism with Hellenistic thinking (mostly Platonic and Aristotelian, although there seems to be an awful lot of stoicism in the root of the gospels, as well as some pythagorean mysticism). Later on, especially after Nicae with all the "corrections" and "official-izations" of the gospels and official dogma, the Aristotelian element became prevalent.
Further down the road, one should recognize even more Aristotle in the Protestant movement.
Aristotle is the most influental philosopher in the history of mankind, bar none. His thoughts, ideas and writings have practically shaped the world as we know it and I would regard him as the single most influental person in recorded history.
Both philosophers had a Humangous impact on Christianity. The latter - despite what most people seem to think about it - was originally a fusion of the Judaism with Hellenistic thinking (mostly Platonic and Aristotelian, although there seems to be an awful lot of stoicism in the root of the gospels, as well as some pythagorean mysticism). Later on, especially after Nicae with all the "corrections" and "official-izations" of the gospels and official dogma, the Aristotelian element became prevalent.
Further down the road, one should recognize even more Aristotle in the Protestant movement.
Aristotle is the most influental philosopher in the history of mankind, bar none. His thoughts, ideas and writings have practically shaped the world as we know it and I would regard him as the single most influental person in recorded history.
Originally Posted by Zorba:
The man with the most impact on history? Why, that would be this man:
To find out why, click below:
The man with the most impact on history? Why, that would be this man:
To find out why, click below:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I still vote for the buddah, for bringing enlightenment.
@Zorba, do you believe that bullcrap?
@mithrandir, buddah??? er...
@mithrandir, buddah??? er...
Originally Posted by Hannibal99:
You do realiza both of these philosophers lived more than 300(or further im tired and woke up) years before Christianity right?
You do realiza both of these philosophers lived more than 300(or further im tired and woke up) years before Christianity right?
Yep i do, but still. Both religions revered to the writings of Aristotle (Socrates) and Plato (whom i left out...shame on me). Islamic scolars rediscovered Aristotle`s writings in Constantinople & they were re-imported to Westerner`s minds through the court of Frederic II. 4 more info please read above.... (Rosacrux redux, somebody else)
Buddha, Siddartha, Indian prince who achieved enlightenment as the Buddhists believe it long before your hero Jesus Christ got born and then proceeded to get himself killed.
The most influencial was..let me think....ha...yes.....ME! :)
Originally Posted by diablodelmar:
@Zorba, do you believe that bullcrap?
joke: (n) 1. a thing said to cause amusement.@Zorba, do you believe that bullcrap?
Seriously, I don't even know who that's a picture of. It's just some random wrinkly old guy I found a picure of; and everything I typed just came off the top of my head.
Originally Posted by Subedei:
Yep i do, but still. Both religions revered to the writings of Aristotle (Socrates) and Plato (whom i left out...shame on me). Islamic scolars rediscovered Aristotle`s writings in Constantinople & they were re-imported to Westerner`s minds through the court of Frederic II. 4 more info please read above.... (Rosacrux redux, somebody else)
Islamic scholars had access to Aristotle's writings much earlier than Constantinople and were the major source of the spread of such teachings into Europe - not Constantinople, which had lost much of the knowledge just as the remnants of the western Roman empire had. Look into the influence of and Avicenna and even more... Averroës . His commentaries on Aristotle in the mid-12th century in Cordoba and while he was Qadi of Seville were very important in spreading Aristotelian philosophy into Europe, particularly Christian and Jewish philosophy. Averroës commentaries on Aristotle were taught at the University of Paris by Siger of Brabant. Averroës was so influential on St. Thomas Aquinas, that he simply called him "The Commentator" and Aristotle "the Philosopher". Dante included him in his Divine Comedy. And Averroës was most certainly the source of Aristotle's writings entering into the court of Frederick II. The first translation of the Averroës commentaries on Aristotle into Hebrew was done by Jacob Anatoli. The first translation of Averroës commentaries on Aristotle into Latin was done by Michael Scot. Both of these men were employed in the court of Frederick II in Naples as translators and advisors to Frederick on scholarly matters. Yep i do, but still. Both religions revered to the writings of Aristotle (Socrates) and Plato (whom i left out...shame on me). Islamic scolars rediscovered Aristotle`s writings in Constantinople & they were re-imported to Westerner`s minds through the court of Frederic II. 4 more info please read above.... (Rosacrux redux, somebody else)
Originally Posted by Hannibal99:
You do realiza both of these philosophers lived more than 300(or further im tired and woke up) years before Christianity right?
Confucius lived over 2000 years ago, yet he influences Chinese culture up till now. Sun Tzu, if he existed, lived at roughly the same period, and The Art of War is still studied by many generals today.You do realiza both of these philosophers lived more than 300(or further im tired and woke up) years before Christianity right?
Originally Posted by diablodelmar:
@Zorba, do you believe that bullcrap?
@mithrandir, buddah??? er...
Yes why not ?@Zorba, do you believe that bullcrap?
@mithrandir, buddah??? er...
I could've chosen a character from a book like Jezus, or Gandalf or dracula as well. I chose Buddah for bringing a way of thinking which could create a utopia.
my vote goes to Ramses the Great. Led important military campaigns to help egypt and also built the most monuments ever. I also vote for Constantine IX for even though outnumbered fought bravely in the midst of combat.
Originally Posted by :
I also vote for Constantine IX for even though outnumbered fought bravely in the midst of combat.
A nice show, but how did that affect history?I also vote for Constantine IX for even though outnumbered fought bravely in the midst of combat.
I think it would be a good idea to pick persons for different eras. From some people like Plato and arguably JC we can still notice their influence, and there'd be no room for competitors.
I'd like to say Mohammed and Jesus, becuase they caused such a whirlwind that their legacy still exists to this day.
But I say Isaac Newton for one reason, the moment he discovered gravity, he also discovered COMMON SENSE from that point on people began to take things more logically. If it weren't for him, people would think everything is going on by MAGIC!
THANKS TO YOU ISAAC SCHOOL BECAME ALOT HARDER
But I say Isaac Newton for one reason, the moment he discovered gravity, he also discovered COMMON SENSE from that point on people began to take things more logically. If it weren't for him, people would think everything is going on by MAGIC!
THANKS TO YOU ISAAC SCHOOL BECAME ALOT HARDER
Newton wasn't the first scientist, though. 
Originally Posted by Aenlic:
Islamic scholars had access to Aristotle's writings much earlier than Constantinople and were the major source of the spread of such teachings into Europe - not Constantinople, which had lost much of the knowledge just as the remnants of the western Roman empire had. Look into the influence of and Avicenna and even more... Averroës . His commentaries on Aristotle in the mid-12th century in Cordoba and while he was Qadi of Seville were very important in spreading Aristotelian philosophy into Europe, particularly Christian and Jewish philosophy. Averroës commentaries on Aristotle were taught at the University of Paris by Siger of Brabant. Averroës was so influential on St. Thomas Aquinas, that he simply called him "The Commentator" and Aristotle "the Philosopher". Dante included him in his Divine Comedy. And Averroës was most certainly the source of Aristotle's writings entering into the court of Frederick II. The first translation of the Averroës commentaries on Aristotle into Hebrew was done by Jacob Anatoli. The first translation of Averroës commentaries on Aristotle into Latin was done by Michael Scot. Both of these men were employed in the court of Frederick II in Naples as translators and advisors to Frederick on scholarly matters.
Wow, thanks Aenlic, Islamic scholars had access to Aristotle's writings much earlier than Constantinople and were the major source of the spread of such teachings into Europe - not Constantinople, which had lost much of the knowledge just as the remnants of the western Roman empire had. Look into the influence of and Avicenna and even more... Averroës . His commentaries on Aristotle in the mid-12th century in Cordoba and while he was Qadi of Seville were very important in spreading Aristotelian philosophy into Europe, particularly Christian and Jewish philosophy. Averroës commentaries on Aristotle were taught at the University of Paris by Siger of Brabant. Averroës was so influential on St. Thomas Aquinas, that he simply called him "The Commentator" and Aristotle "the Philosopher". Dante included him in his Divine Comedy. And Averroës was most certainly the source of Aristotle's writings entering into the court of Frederick II. The first translation of the Averroës commentaries on Aristotle into Hebrew was done by Jacob Anatoli. The first translation of Averroës commentaries on Aristotle into Latin was done by Michael Scot. Both of these men were employed in the court of Frederick II in Naples as translators and advisors to Frederick on scholarly matters.
you know your way around in philosophy/history. Averroës, did not`t know about him. I just studied some Islamic history during my year in the US at Colorado University and the prof there said, Islamic scholars bought Aristotle`s scripts in Constantinople & translated them.
Ah, yes, Aristotle was re-introduced into the "west" by the Arabs, mostly. Although I am quite puzzled as to where the thousands of manuscripts the "crusaders" looted from Constantinople in 1204 end up? I mean... they literally emptied the University. What did they do with those? Boild water in the Thermes? 
There is one ancient Philosopher of the same calibre that was brought to the west from byzantium though, and that's Plato. In the 1400s Georgios Gemistos ("Plethon") run his school in Moreas and almost each and every young Florentine aristocrat studied there! It was "hip" to study at the neoplatonic "academy" of Gemistos for the Florentine youth, you see. Via Gemistos Plato was brought to Florence and from there on it became widespread in "the west".
Ah, and Arab scholars definitely did not bring Aristotle's writings to Constantinople, that's innacurate. Aristotle was the most beloved of the ancient thinkers to the highest ranks of the Orthodox clergy and Aristotelian study was widespread in the "Greek" world from the 400s, as evident by the Aristotelian aura of the Nicaen "reforms". The Arabs discovered Aristotle a few centuries later ;)
There is one ancient Philosopher of the same calibre that was brought to the west from byzantium though, and that's Plato. In the 1400s Georgios Gemistos ("Plethon") run his school in Moreas and almost each and every young Florentine aristocrat studied there! It was "hip" to study at the neoplatonic "academy" of Gemistos for the Florentine youth, you see. Via Gemistos Plato was brought to Florence and from there on it became widespread in "the west".
Ah, and Arab scholars definitely did not bring Aristotle's writings to Constantinople, that's innacurate. Aristotle was the most beloved of the ancient thinkers to the highest ranks of the Orthodox clergy and Aristotelian study was widespread in the "Greek" world from the 400s, as evident by the Aristotelian aura of the Nicaen "reforms". The Arabs discovered Aristotle a few centuries later ;)
Originally Posted by diablodelmar:
@Zorba, do you believe that bullcrap?
@mithrandir, buddah??? er...
Actually, what Zorba said is true. It has been proven, since the man readily agreed to scrap out some of his skin and let the scientists do their carbon-dating procedure, the result being that he truly is older than 2000 years old. Of course, we can't forget that this individual, in some of his mildly interesting adventures, had been responsible for bringing the Black Death to Europe, inspired Niccolo Machiavelli, in his exile, to write The Prince, was the true person behind the Mona Lisa, when he sat down and let Da Vinci drew him, after which the same evening he went to a sculpture's studio and let his likeness be carved in the form of the David, talked Christopher Columbus to sail Westward, accidentally convinced Napolean Bonaparte to assume the mantle of Emperor, taught a delinquent young Mohantas Ghandi on the issue of peace and civility, saved Hitler's life one dark night on the Austrian Front, recently, which means two decades ago, talked a young rich Saudi Arabian in a Beirut brothel to do something worthwhile instead of wasting his time like that, resulting in that individual going on a Jihad instead, and did I say he shot John F. Kennedy?@Zorba, do you believe that bullcrap?
@mithrandir, buddah??? er...
That was the man.
And Buddha, what's wrong with him as a choice? Do you have any particular hatred with the individual figure or the religion, or are you unfamiliar with that particular religion's influence on the development of the Asian cultures?
Aenlic indeed is truly knowledgable. I find it particularly interesting that Frederick II would be indirectly influential in the preservation of Medieval learning by his actions as a "patron" thanks to his quirky (by a Medieval lord's standard) character.
If hes not mentioned earlier I would say Herodotus. I mean if he didnt exist we wouldnt have history it would be called something else. His work itself is probably what inspired many others to write histories and write down what people did in a non objective way.
People wrote history down before Herodotus. He's just the first Westerner to write down history. Also, his can hardly be called completely objective. After all, how could you even find the true facts about the Persian War? They'd be twisted by the Greek victors, and the Persians would probably be depicted a little worse than he thinks they are, since he did live through the war. It's hard to be totally objective when writing about the people who threatened to destroy your entire civilisation and cast you into slavery.
Also, history hasn't changed history. That was sure a strange thing to say.
Islam had mainly preserved old texts, translating them and keeping the knowledge for mankind. Christianity had condemned science, and medicine as well, so it was due to Islamic scholars that we still have that work today. They also contributed to the knowledge, adding their own in.
Also, history hasn't changed history. That was sure a strange thing to say.
Islam had mainly preserved old texts, translating them and keeping the knowledge for mankind. Christianity had condemned science, and medicine as well, so it was due to Islamic scholars that we still have that work today. They also contributed to the knowledge, adding their own in.
He may not be the first historian but i think the contributions of historians are notable. Imagine if some of the most famous historian were not around wouldnt this effectively change history. Because in the end history is what we read. If the only history of alexander the great showed him as a despoticalt tyrant then would we call him the great? So in some ways history does change history but i concede your point as to the whole thing not exactly being the intention of the thread.
Uhm, homo habilis?
[QUOTE=AntiochusIII]Actually, what Zorba said is true. It has been proven, since the man readily agreed to scrap out some of his skin and let the scientists do their carbon-dating procedure, the result being that he truly is older than 2000 years old. Of course, we can't forget that this individual, in some of his mildly interesting adventures, had been responsible for bringing the Black Death to Europe, inspired Niccolo Machiavelli, in his exile, to write The Prince, was the true person behind the Mona Lisa, when he sat down and let Da Vinci drew him, after which the same evening he went to a sculpture's studio and let his likeness be carved in the form of the David, talked Christopher Columbus to sail Westward, accidentally convinced Napolean Bonaparte to assume the mantle of Emperor, taught a delinquent young Mohantas Ghandi on the issue of peace and civility, saved Hitler's life one dark night on the Austrian Front, recently, which means two decades ago, talked a young rich Saudi Arabian in a Beirut brothel to do something worthwhile instead of wasting his time like that, resulting in that individual going on a Jihad instead, and did I say he shot John F. Kennedy?
That was the man. {/QUOTE]
Wow either its some joke or that man sucks. now were dead
That was the man.
{/QUOTE] Wow either its some joke or that man sucks. now were dead Single Sign On provided by vBSSO