Any future in AGP?

[Boohugh]

I'll start by saying a bit about my PC. Basically, I have a AthlonXP 3200+, a gig of PC3200 ram and a Radeon 9800pro, so I get decent performance on most current games, although I obviously can't play the newest at anywhere near max settings.

I believe (and correct me if you think I'm wrong ) my main bottleneck at the moment if my graphics card when it comes to new games. So, is it worth upgrading my graphics cards to one these beauties while they are around (only 1500 being made), or do you think there will be any future AGP release that can match it?

I know I will have to upgrade to PCI-e eventually, but I just can't afford to get a new CPU, motherboard, RAM and graphics card right now

My options are basically:

1. Stay with my 9800pro until I decide to replace practically my whole system.
2. Buy this blisteringly fast Gainward AGP card (wipes the floor with any other AGP card currently around) or
3. Stick it out and hope Nvidia or ATI release a new AGP card in the future.

So, any thoughts?

(Edited for typo)

[Lemur]

I have a nearly identical rig (exceptions: mine is a 9700 pro, and my Athlon is an OC'ed something-or-another that now runs at 2 gigahertz). I would vote for option (1). Your rig is fine where it is; better to wait and replace the entire enchilada.

My current debate is whether to wait for DX10 parts or go ahead and build a rig this summer.

[Beirut]

Where's Orangat?

Yes. (Provisionally.)

[LeftEyeNine]

AGP is dead. Future is unfortunately alongside of PCI-e.

[Beirut]

I don't think AGP is dead. I think that if you are able to get upgrade parts for your existing machine at a good price, there is still life in AGP.

My AGP rig plays all my CPU and graphics intensive games very nicely.

It all has to do with what you want to play.

[Xiahou]

I don't think AGP is dead. I think that if you are able to get upgrade parts for your existing machine at a good price, there is still life in AGP.

My AGP rig plays all my CPU and graphics intensive games very nicely.

It all has to do with what you want to play.

Yes, but I think the question was more about will future GPUs be made in AGP format rather than whether or not you can get acceptable performance from AGP (you certainly can). I seriously doubt we'll see many "new" cards coming out as AGP.

[Boohugh]

My main problem is that I have a 19" LCD monitor, so I need to play games at 1280 x 1024 or they look a bit odd. With some newer games, my 9800pro is clearly showing its age at this resolution. Now, the card I linked is actually a Nvidia 7900GT stuck on an AGP board by the clever people at Gainward just because they could, hence why only 1500 are being made. The card is way faster than anything else out there so would make a very good upgrade that would last a good while, especially if no more AGP cards are designed. If there are plans to make a newer AGP card (not likely, but Nvidia turned up with the 7800GS pretty quickly so still a possibility) I'd hold off upgrading for the moment.

I'll be wanting to play games like M2:TW, Spore and Stalker in the future, and I definitely think I'll need a new card for them (I'm a bit of a graphics-whore and like my games all sparkly ). I really don't want to have to upgrade to PCI-e yet because I'll have to, well, basically stop buying food to afford it, so really can't justify that . I want to buy practically the last AGP card made so I can put off the inevitable for as long as possible, so do you realistically think there will be any further AGP cards?

[LeftEyeNine]

Yes, but I think the question was more about will future GPUs be made in AGP format rather than whether or not you can get acceptable performance from AGP (you certainly can). I seriously doubt we'll see many "new" cards coming out as AGP.

What I tried to mention.

[InsaneApache]

I just upgraded my AGP graphics card to a Geforce 4mx-440 Nvidea 256mb, so I'll be ok for a while yet. I was very surprised to see a 256mb AGP card and it was only £9 more than the 128 so no contest really.

[caravel]

I just upgraded my AGP graphics card to a Geforce 4mx-440 Nvidea 256mb, so I'll be ok for a while yet. I was very surprised to see a 256mb AGP card and it was only £9 more than the 128 so no contest really.

The Geforce 4 MX series cards (NV17 and NV18) are actually Geforce 2 MX's with DDR memory controllers and not real Geforce 4's (NV25 and NV28). The Geforce 2 GTS is in my opinion a better card with it's 4 pixel pipelines instead of the Geforce2/4 MX only having 2 (2 disabled). Nvidia stuck alot of memory on these boards just to make them seem more appealing to the consumer.

I agree with the consensus that AGP is pretty much dead, standard PCI graphics cards pretty much died out when AGP came along after all, so now it's AGP's turn to go the same way. "AGP" is just a marketing name anyway, it's really just a type of 66MHz PCI slot that can access the main system memory via DiME (Direct Memory Execute) or DMA in cheaper onboard systems. This enables the graphics card to transfer textures to and from main memory at the specified rate (2x, 4x or 8x clocks per cycle). PCIx has pretty much superceded this, so while a limited supply of AGP cards will still be around their time is probably numbered.

[orangat]

My main problem is that I have a 19" LCD monitor, so I need to play games at 1280 x 1024 or they look a bit odd. With some newer games, my 9800pro is clearly showing its age at this resolution. Now, the card I linked is actually a Nvidia 7900GT stuck on an AGP board by the clever people at Gainward just because they could, hence why only 1500 are being made....

I'll be wanting to play games like M2:TW, Spore and Stalker in the future, and I definitely think I'll need a new card for them (I'm a bit of a graphics-whore and like my games all sparkly )....

Alright Hugh, heres the scoop without any empty temporizing about agp.
AGP is practically dead for gamers in the mid-high range category and whatever you do, make sure your psu is beefy enough.

The Gainward golden sample you linked is a good card (ungimped 7900gt agp) but costs too much.
The Gainward 7800gs(7800gt version) costs ~gbp260 and the Gainward 7800gs(7900gt version) costs ~gbp290. Instead of spending gbp260-290 for an agp card, I'd rather get a pcie 7900gt for ~gbp200 plus a decent pcie 939 m/b for gbp50 and spend the remaining balance of gbp10-40 on a new socket 939 cpu (probably something cheap from which you can upgrade later on).
I got the prices from the links below but do not endorse the vendors because I don't know how reliable they are.
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatal...e_AGP_411.html
http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=319889

The only agp card I would consider is the Leadtek 7800gs gimped g71 core version with 20pipes for gbp212 at overclockers. Leadteks webpage doesn't have that model listed.

There are rumblings about 7600gt being released for agp. Gainward did release the golden sample 7800gs in the end so it could happen. Problem is whether the price premium is worth the hassle.

The hardware requirements for MTW2/Spore/Stalker is expected to be somewhat steep and 2 of the games are not even expected to be released early 2007. What I would do is to wait for the Conroes and to arrive in July(?) and prices will inevitably drop a little and upgrade to pcie. Or upgrade to a used 6800gs/gt (if you can find one) which is 2x faster than a 9800pro to tide you over.

[hoom]

I have a similar issue, have a 2.2ghz socket 754 A64 with 4 year old 9800np.

Want to get a decent size upgrade to this (ie dual core + PCIe) but cost is through the roof because CPU price hasn't come down in the nearly 2 years since I got the thing.

Worst thing is I just bought a 24inch LCD & while I'm genuinely impressed by the poor old dears ability to actually pump out 1920*1200, the 9800 just isn't quite up to the task for big RTR PE battles, BF2 & even back on the 19 inch CRT it couldn't handle Farcry properly above 1024*768.

So I've been putting off doing anything for ages & the price of better CPUs just keeps going up + while I can get a vastly more powerful GPU for the same price as the 9800 was, theres always something better round the corner...

[Boohugh]

Well, I thought I'd update you on what I've done

I finally decided to buy a relatively normal 7800GS to tide me over until I basically buy a complete system when I decide to upgrade to Windows Vista and DX10 graphics. Although I didn't realise at the time, I just got the Leadtek card Orangat recommended as it seems competitively priced, potentially has 20 pipes (its not actually confirmed whether it is 16 or 20, there have been lots of conflicting reports on it, but the cores are definitely G71's not the normal G70's), and has a decent amount of overclocking potential, but the clincher was it came with 2 decent games that I don't have, but have considered buying at some point (Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, and Prince of Persia: Warrior Within)

I'll see a massive boost in current games in both speed and looks and its got Pixel Shader 3.0 and HDR support so has a certain amount of future-proofing too. I decided against the more expensive Gainward ones for two main reasons. Firstly, my CPU would probably act as a bottleneck, so I'd most likely be wasting the extra performance it offers and secondly, although I have a beefy PSU, its not PCI-e compliant, so would need to use adaptors to plug the card in (although it uses an AGP slot, its still basically a PCI-e card and so uses PCI-e voltages), which I've heard there have been problems with.

I realise I could probably get better performance for a similar price if I upgraded to a makeshift PCI-e system, but I'm happy to basically pay for the simple solution as I don't really have the willpower to mess around with a new motherboard, CPU, etc right now as it would probably just end up with lots of

[Beirut]

Well, I thought I'd update you on what I've done

I finally decided to buy a relatively normal 7800GS to tide me over until I basically buy a complete system when I decide to upgrade to Windows Vista and DX10 graphics.

You and I chose the same road. I upped from a 9800Pro to an AGP 7800GS and I'm more than happy with my choice. Runs all my games beautifully. Hope you're as happy with your card as I am with mine.


Just plugged in Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory for the first time since I upped my card. The Shader 3 options available on my 7800 AGP card (and in the game)really make it shine. The game looks great. (Especially on my new 19" LCD screen. )

I've a got a tin can that sees all my spare change and that will, one day, get me my PCI-E/Vista setup. At that moment, I will heed Orangat's sound techno-wisdom and dive deep into the PCI-E pool. But until then I'm an AGP kind o' guy and I have yet to meet a game that doesn't look and play well on my system.

[orangat]

Well, I thought I'd update you on what I've done

I finally decided to buy a relatively normal 7800GS to tide me over until I basically buy a complete system when I decide to upgrade to Windows Vista and DX10 graphics. Although I didn't realise at the time, I just got the Leadtek card Orangat recommended as it seems competitively priced, potentially has 20 pipes (its not actually confirmed whether it is 16 or 20, there have been lots of conflicting reports on it, but the cores are definitely G71's not the normal G70's), and has a decent amount of overclocking potential, but the clincher was it came with 2 decent games that I don't have, but have considered buying at some point (Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, and Prince of Persia: Warrior Within)
..........

Download Everest or rivatuner and check the number of pipes. There has been reports that the golden samples were 16pipe versions not the 20 as advertised. The 20 pipes and big overclocking potential with high speed modules is the only reason I would recommend it.

The advent of the 7600gt cards mean that the normal agp 7800gs is totally pointless because the pcie 7600gt has higher fillrates and is a little faster but cost only $150. Pair it with a good pcie mb and you'll still come out ahead of the $270 7800gs.

And dollar for gaming dollar nothing beats the x1800xt which can be had for $220 at egg. Its faster than the 7800gtx 512Mb.

[Incongruous]

I have an ATI X800 XY PLATINUM and I reckon ill need to move onto a more beffy card for M2:TW, unfortunatley this will mean upgrading the MB.
Can anyone suggest a new card?

[Boohugh]

I have an ATI X800 XY PLATINUM and I reckon ill need to move onto a more beffy card for M2:TW, unfortunatley this will mean upgrading the MB.
Can anyone suggest a new card?

Thats actually a very good AGP card still, and will give a similar performance to the 7800GS, it just doesn't have some of the newer features such as Pixel Shader 3.0. I'm fairly sure it will run M2TW, just not at max details, etc (I really don't think CA will make a game that requires top-end PC's to play because that will restrict its sales massively). As your going to upgrade your MB and go down the PCI-e route, its probably worth waiting until we've heard the exact system requirements of M2TW and upgrade then.

[Incongruous]

Thanks for the advice Hugh.

[orangat]

Bad news. overclockers.co.uk is scamming buyers with '20 pipe' leadtek.
Leadtek has never had a 20/24 pipe version of the 7800gs.

The description of the GX-085-LT has been modified to strip out the 20-pipe blurb. link

[Boohugh]

Yeah, I wasn't convinced it had the full 20 pipes, but its still one of the cheaper ones and is the only one that comes with 2 full games so I'm still happy I ordered it.

Rather annoyingly I was late home from work the day it got delivered and so missed the delivery guy by 10mins . I have now been told the delivery address can't be changed to my work one and so I asked for it to be delivered on a Saturday instead (stumping up the extra cash that involves) but they won't send it out until they receive the original one back from the delivery company which takes 5 days. Looks like I won't be getting it for another week and a half now