Group Formations - Damnit!!

[gmjapan]

I have lost rack of how long I have been playing R:TW now. I just found a collection of buttons that will automatically assemble a group of units into various formations. I never use groups normally and I am a creature of habit so the option was not usually there. However, my recent games using hoplite style troops have revealed all these preset formations that take like 2 clicks to organise!!
Normally I spend ages lining up my troops and the different types (and then just run around with Cav!) when I could have just clicked this!

Learn something new everyday - even if that thing is that you're an idiot!

[Severous]

Arent they useful ! Useful when deploying at the start and during the battle.

I tend to use the single line formation. The second line of troops will be another 'single line' formation. Ie each line in the formation will be one group. Makes it easier if you want to run the first line back behind the cover of the second line. ie slingers deploy our front then run behind the hoplites when mellee is about to occur.

[gmjapan]

hmm even with these formations I still cant use slingers successfully in my army :(

[Severous]

Yes I agree with those sentiments. Slingers are not as easy to use as archers.

As for grouping I find its good for setting up and making armies look neat. But in the heat of battle I command each unit individually. Makes them do what I want much more promptly than commanding groups.

[Drusus Magnus]

I never use slingers. When you place them behind your line they'll kill more of your own units than enemies. Place them before your line and they can't kill enough before they have to withdraw. Archers with long range or siege, nothing else.

[Garvanko]

Slingers are horrible to use.

[gmjapan]

I have a use for Slingers just now that was found by accident! I put them at a 30deg angle (ish) at the right side of my front line so they are facing out towards the enemy (so front line looks like _ _ _ _ _ / ). Behind them I have one infantry unit just hanging around (any infantry) and one or two cav near that but a little back (if no cav then more infantry).

If the enemy engage my front line my slingers can fire away happy and get free kills down the line and not hit my troops. More often though they become the taget of an approaching enemy unit. It doesnt matter what or where the enemy unit is, the intention is so obvious I have loads of time to start my infantry behind them charging forward to intercept and then run the slingers back a bit to safety (turning fire at will off!). Once they are tied up in melee the cav then manouvers for the flanks. It works great for disrupting an enemy formation since they seem to like taking the bait at any cost, usually with a cav unit but also with units from the middle of their formation. It creates opertunities which is great. Only tried it with a front line 5 or 6 units long so far.

Once the unit is minced I run the slingers out again to the same position to either re-run the trap or fire at will where they can reach right down my line.

The other units involved in the trap either go back again or if my front line is fully engaged they start with the hammer and anvil routine.

The infantry type behind doesnt matter so long as they can be relied on not to rout - they are there to tie up the enemy unit.

And (!) it works both for defensive and offensive action. So far. Hurrah!

[Slaists]

gmjapan: why not put them on the LEFT side of your line? there, slingers would be able to get additional kills due to hitting the shield-less side of the opponents. something like this: \_ _ _ _ _ _

[x-dANGEr]

Good point Slaists. And one thing you guys should know about Slingers, they are AP (At least in BI they are), and they destructive for hitting all units on the way. So, unlike your archers, if you miss the first unit you will hit the second, and any stones go beyond the secon, they will hit the third. While with arrows, a arrow that misses it's target is gone, with no use.

So really, Slingers 'own'.

[Slaists]

not sure what you saying here, x-dANAGER: why wouldn't missing arrows hit targets all the way? i mean - if there is a target in the trajectory of the arrow until it hits the ground... isn't that exactly the reason why we use loose formation when being peppered? it's easier to hit someone in the crowd with an arrow than to aim for a single guy in the field.

Good point Slaists. And one thing you guys should know about Slingers, they are AP (At least in BI they are), and they destructive for hitting all units on the way. So, unlike your archers, if you miss the first unit you will hit the second, and any stones go beyond the secon, they will hit the third. While with arrows, a arrow that misses it's target is gone, with no use.

So really, Slingers 'own'.

[x-dANGEr]

:

Slingers---------------->Archers--Archers--Archers--Archers--Archers

When the Slingers unit lets go it's slings on the first Archers unit, any stones that don't hit the first Archers unit will go on to the second, and the third, and the fourth and the fifth. While:

Archers---------------->Slingers--Slingers--Slingers--Slingers--Slingers

When the Archers unit lets go it's arrows on the first Slingers unit, it will only hit that one, and any arrows that misses it's target are just going to stick on the ground.

[gmjapan]

gmjapan: why not put them on the LEFT side of your line? there, slingers would be able to get additional kills due to hitting the shield-less side of the opponents. something like this: \_ _ _ _ _ _

At the time my Elephants were on the left so they could charge down the front line once it was engaged and the slingers were just being tried out but you raise a good point. Its something I hadnt even considered yet. Thanks.

[Slaists]

ok, i realize now what you were saying: the archers shoot with an arched trajectory while the slingers throw with a straight trajectory this imho actually would not be the case in real life when throwing over longer distances; also - when shooting arrows over short distance - they would pretty much have a straight trajectory. but, i guess, that's the way the game mechanics work for now.

anyway, when comparing battle statistics (after the battle is over), my archers invariably come out way ahead of slingers in terms of number of kills. from what you were saying, one would assume the opposite to be true. and I am not even mentioning "fire-flames" option yet... with fire-flames on, the difference becomes even more dramatic (i guess, partly because archers shoot into backs of the enemy units that rout panicked by the flames).

:

Slingers---------------->Archers--Archers--Archers--Archers--Archers

When the Slingers unit lets go it's slings on the first Archers unit, any stones that don't hit the first Archers unit will go on to the second, and the third, and the fourth and the fifth. While:

Archers---------------->Slingers--Slingers--Slingers--Slingers--Slingers

When the Archers unit lets go it's arrows on the first Slingers unit, it will only hit that one, and any arrows that misses it's target are just going to stick on the ground.

[x-dANGEr]

.. Try this. Get 10 mounted Slingers +3 weapons/armor, and pick against you 10 Eastern Archers units, see who wins.. (Try to use the Slingers in a way that what I mentioned above is applied).

Also, when using Slingers against blocked stacks of Infantry, it's better to assign your Slinger to attack the last legion/infantry unit, to make the most use -again- of what I mentioned above.

[Slaists]

ok. will see how this works. nonetheless, are you sure about "mounted" slingers? what unit is that?

.. Try this. Get 10 mounted Slingers +3 weapons/armor, and pick against you 10 Eastern Archers units, see who wins.. (Try to use the Slingers in a way that what I mentioned above is applied).

Also, when using Slingers against blocked stacks of Infantry, it's better to assign your Slinger to attack the last legion/infantry unit, to make the most use -again- of what I mentioned above.

[x-dANGEr]

I'm talking about BI (Because in BI, they have AP). I'm not sure if AP is added in the last patch in RTW, though.