The Decline and Fall of the EU

[doc_bean]

So, in many places in Africa employing a long term view would be best. As such I feel that a "clean sheet" approach would be the most workable, as clearly the stopgap measures we are currently using suffer from corruption sapping the money whereas the problems get worse by the year.

And after the land has recovered in a few hundred years time, new people can be let into the areas that have been "swept and cleaned".

No omlette was made without the odd egg being broken.

Or, you know, we could:

-severely limit arms trading
-allow African nations some protectionism (especially when considering agricultural products)
-stop giving corrupt governments so much money
-support organization which actually try to help the people
-stop the anti-condom propaganda
-stop exploitation of their natural resources by western companies (blood diamonds anyone)
-give proper information about aids

etc.

There are a lot of things that could be done to make Africa a better place, I'm just saying you can't expect any miracles to happen, it won't be changed easily, and certainly not quickly.

[rory_20_uk]

Or, you know, we could:

-severely limit arms trading
-allow African nations some protectionism (especially when considering agricultural products)
-stop giving corrupt governments so much money
-support organization which actually try to help the people
-stop the anti-condom propaganda
-stop exploitation of their natural resources by western companies (blood diamonds anyone)
-give proper information about aids

Arms trading - limit how? E.g. China wants to sell arms. How do we stop them?
Protectionism - why just Africa? Many other countries could benefit.
Corrupt governments and money - good theory, but in practice doesn't this just hurt those at the bottom?
Exploitation of natural resources - that's how India and China are doing so well. And Brazil, and many others. How do these countries use their own resources when we say they're bieng exploited?
AIDS / condom propaganda - useful of course.

As usual lovely ideals, but as I said they just simply won't work as things are. The West plays nice, then China, Russia and possibly India take up the slack with glee. Like the Slave Trade, there are groups that want guns. They will get them one way or the other. They get things to trade for the weapons. Africa tends to be very macho. The biggest get to the top. How can we suddenly tell them otherwise? We go in and fight the lot of them? Hardly useful.

[doc_bean]

As usual lovely ideals, but as I said they just simply won't work as things are.

Indeed, that's why I'm saying Africa is pretty much a hopeless cause right now, the few things that can be done to make things better aren't likely to actually be done, since it's not in the current bast interest of the rest of the world.

[rory_20_uk]

Hence why removing humans in the long term give the possibility of a successful Africa.

Sometimes there is not a road to recovery that includes humans. Without the constant drain there is a chance.

[Banquo's Ghost]

To facilitate further debate on whether populations of humans can regulate themselves effectively, there is the cautionary tale of Rapa Nui. There are many sources, but this is quite accessible:

The Catastrophe of Rapa Nui.

The thought provoking question at the end is one that has often occupied my mind when I first read about this disaster:

What was in the mind of the man who cut down the very last tree?

[The Black Ship]

What was in the mind of the man who cut down the very last tree?

Probably something like: "Oh well, we're screwed anyways...least those damned flatheads didn't get it!"

[_Martyr_]

Yeah, it wasnt the LAST tree that really mattered that much, it was a non renewable resource because the rats prevented anything from growing... AT that stage they were so screwed anyway that they probably simply needed the tree to cook food. Very interesting story. I had heard it before, but that went into a lot of detail. Kind of scary though.

[doc_bean]

Hence why removing humans in the long term give the possibility of a successful Africa.

Sometimes there is not a road to recovery that includes humans. Without the constant drain there is a chance.

O, you were being serious...

[rory_20_uk]

I agree, a further 300 years of starvation, anarchy and death is a much better way to go...