Will those gay Greek units be in the next build?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

When man started wearing clothes the main argument for being heterosexual became hidden and unkown to the masses and made it more difficult for men to realize why they should seek women rather than any body cavity to fulfill their lusts with. Thank God we have porn these days
The greeks didn't have porn, and many of their soldiers were kept away from women all their youth so that they first of all didn't really get to know the benefits of women, and secondly didn't get to know how to interact with them successfully. For men who had spent so much time with men it was probably easier to convince them of sex than it was to convince women, about which they knew nothing, to do it. Also just as with love today, it's not a matter of preference who you "choose", it's a matter of who is easiest to catch and logistically easiest to couple with. A bird in the hand, you know... If they didn't know what benefits a woman had and at the same time thought it more difficult to catch a woman, is it really that odd that they didn't bother about women as much? And after happening a while the idea of homosexuality became culture and tradition, so it remained for some time even after the causes of it had disappeared. It's no coincidence that many other cultures where women and men were distanced from each other, for example the 100-150 AD Rome, also started becoming pedophilic and homosexual.

Wow, you really hate society, don't you. Well for starters pedastry, that is a relationship between an adolecant and an adult post dates the Mycenaean Civilisation and was usually restricted to the Ionians and Dorians, whereas the Arcadians and Achaeans were somewhat homophobic.

It was a cultural developement which came about with the city state as late at 700 BC. That said homophobia is really a Christian preocupation and it had more to do with the idea that a man should not take on the role of a woman, that was the abomination.

The Greeks had porn, they had very experienced and competant female couresans and prostitutes and they put on live sex shows at their parties (Xenaphon.)

It was also considered far harder to catch a boy than a woman.

Rome was never a homosexual society or a heterosexual society until the arrival of Christianity.

Greece was homosocial they used women for sex and had meaningful relationships with men, which were also erotic. This was a result of the social segregation but there was never a physical ignorance of the images of women, Homer praised the beauty of women and there were some truly stunning sculptures of Aphroditae and other, mortal, women.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Wow, you really hate society, don't you.

Define hate and define society. I'm being no more than a realist, objectively noticing the faults of our less than perfect society which has largely been formed by power struggle and random arbitrariness of our leaders, rather than by enlightenment and insight into the mind of humans. Unlike those who try to prove me wrong, I can accept the truth and live with it, so I don't have to deny it. That our societies with regular intervals give rise to a Hitler, a Stalin or any of the other all too often mentioned guys pretty much proves my point that our leadership and our society systems have been far from insightful throughout history. The rise of civilization was mankind's expulsion from Eden, and this is not a conclusion I've made from being religious, on the contrary I reached this conclusion from scientifically analysing the world and the human mind, then I noticed that it was exactly what some wise men had written in a book from thousands of years ago. If you want a discussion of benefits and curses of civilization I can take that debate in another thread in the monastery or backroom. I've not yet begun to list the arguments against civilization, but it's a long list.

The Greeks had porn, they had very experienced and competant female couresans and prostitutes and they put on live sex shows at their parties (Xenaphon.)

I have to be more specific I guess - high resolution porn in full 24 bit RGB color is what I meant.

It was also considered far harder to catch a boy than a woman.

Source? It doesn't sound logical so it sounds like something made up by someone who was in a state of denial.

Rome was never a homosexual society or a heterosexual society until the arrival of Christianity.

Greece was homosocial they used women for sex and had meaningful relationships with men, which were also erotic. This was a result of the social segregation but there was never a physical ignorance of the images of women, Homer praised the beauty of women and there were some truly stunning sculptures of Aphroditae and other, mortal, women.

Yes, it seems facts do agree with my view then.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Firstly, the facts do not agree with your view because you said that the focus on men was physical because of an ignorance of the female form, which personnally I think sounds homophobic. The truth is that social segregation led to male-male relationships.

The segregation in Ionian society led to the homoerotic relationships, not clothes or a lack of apreciation and Arcadian and Achaean society was the opposite, viewing relations between man and woman as preferable.

"I have to be more specific I guess - high resolution porn in full 24 bit RGB color is what I meant."

How is that better than live porn?

Some quotes:

Anacreon of Teos:

Cleobulus is the one I love
Cleobulus the one I'm mad for
Cleobulus is the one I gaze upon.

Commentary, Dr Tim Whitmarsh, from Ancient Greek Literature
"The threefold repetition of the boy's name at the beggining of eacg line...emphasizes the grip the boy has on the narrator. The syntax and poetic form lend a mesmerizing power to his name. But the narrator is also trying to control the boy.... Other prederastic poems also present the narrator's submission to the boy. In poem 357, a conventionalprayer formula is adopted to to invoke Dionysus...the god is entreated to become the 'councellor' of Cleobulus, to persuade him to 'accept' his love. In this poem, the boy is imaged as a haughty king; even the god Dionysus can only act as an intercessor."

Tim then goes on to contrast this with poems about maidens which compare them to fillies (virgins) which need to be broken in. However in Anacreon's poem the "filly" is a Thracian and therefore a coutesan, which be extension presents all heterosexual sex as male dominance anf female subjegation.

As I said, snaring a boy was considered harder and therefore worthwhile. Would you like me to quote the Symbosium on the virtue of a boy who attempts to evaid capture as well?

This was your arguement:

When man started wearing clothes the main argument for being heterosexual became hidden and unkown to the masses and made it more difficult for men to realize why they should seek women rather than any body cavity to fulfill their lusts with. Thank God we have porn these days.

I have demonstated that ancient Greek men were fully able to interact with women, just not in an emotional way, thereby demonstrating that the homosexual relationships were a product of the segregation practiced by a particular section of Greek society and not a result of civilisation itself.

[Reverend Joe]

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I like to try and educate people, especially when they post things which make them sound silly.

Legio, you said that civilisation and clothes turned all the Greeks homosexual. That was wrong because.

A: It wasn't all the Greeks.

B: It was a result of later social developement, not basic civilisation.

C: You said a woman would be harder to catch.

If you want to make a sweeping statement you could say that democracy turned the Greeks gay, as it was male enfranchisement which led to female exclusion.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

There's no hope in understanding the societal reasons/implications/development of Greek male-male sexual relations in antiquity without a very good understanding of the broader scope of Greek society in the home and in the agora. Any attempts to even use the term "homosexuality" to refer to it all brings so much modern baggage into the picture that it results in a very poor base with which to begin the discussion. Without a better understanding of their society in general, the whole matter is not easy for people in today's world to understand, in the end.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Just a little comment: the grin simely appears most commonly in posts with a light-hearted, sarcastic or ironic message.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Firstly, the facts do not agree with your view because you said that the focus on men was physical because of an ignorance of the female form, which personnally I think sounds homophobic. The truth is that social segregation led to male-male relationships.

That's exactly what I've been saying - social segregation, but in several forms.