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  1. #1

    Default Organ donation ethics

    A new category of non-heart beating organ donor (controlled nhbd) refers to a patient who is in a vegetative state (not brain dead) who has life support withdrawn to allow cardiac arrest/death (doesn't always happen) to become a donor - Is it ethical?
    http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/va...ndonation.html
    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=137443
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...57C0A961958260
    http://sciwrite.org/sciwrite/sciwrite.weissarticle.html

    The controversy lies in several issues:-
    1. Proactive medical procedures eg. drugs, venous cutdowns, drips to prepare a patient performed without consent. These procedures are non-therapeutic and harmful to the already severely ill patient
    2. Unethical because some patients who do not arrest have made full or partial recovery.
    3. The limbo state of patients who unexpectedly do not arrest after ventilator is removed. Since the decision to stop life support is already taken, patient may simple be left without treatment.
    4. NHBD is slippery slope of first expanding the definition of death(over brain death) then by allowing patients who are not in a permanent vegetative state (eg. poor prognosis) dependant on a ventilator to be nhbd.
    Last edited by orangat; 06-18-2006 at 23:33.

  2. #2
    Member Member Avicenna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation ethics

    This should go to the backroom.

    To each their own, and unless the person states otherwise, I think the person's relatives should have the choice. Personally, I would want to donate above living as a vegetable, as there's no point whatsoever, you'll just consume resources and not be doing anything for ages. Your family will have a massive financial burden as well. If you believe in it, you'll get reborn later or go to heaven later, which can't be a good thing.
    Student by day, bacon-eating narwhal by night (specifically midnight)

  3. #3

    Default Re: Organ donation ethics

    Ok. Can a mod pls move this to backroom?

  4. #4
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation ethics

    To the Backroom and awaaaaaay!

    (Oh, and don't cut out my kidneys without asking. Thank you bye.)
    Unto each good man a good dog

  5. #5
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation ethics

    The controversy lies in several issues:-
    1. Proactive medical procedures eg. drugs, venous cutdowns, drips to prepare a patient performed without consent. These procedures are non-therapeutic and harmful to the already severely ill patient
    2. Unethical because some patients who do not arrest have made full or partial recovery.
    3. The limbo state of patients who unexpectedly do not arrest after ventilator is removed. Since the decision to stop life support is already taken, patient may simple be left without treatment.
    4. NHBD is slippery slope of first expanding the definition of death(over brain death) then by allowing patients who are not in a permanent vegetative state (eg. poor prognosis) dependant on a ventilator to be nhbd.

    1) What proceedures are these non theraputic proceedures?
    2) If they don't arrest then I thought there'd be no harvest.
    3) If patients don't require ventilators they don't need one. It is a device that is not required, and does have its own mortality and morbidity. More tubes doesn't mean better treatment. So they're left. That's all the treatment they require.
    4) That is a worry. Permanent vegetative state is a good cut off point though. Poor prognosis is much vaguer and is well on the slope.

    I'm guardedly for it, but I'd like at least two consultants to make the choice, and probably some further oversight as well to ensure that everyone is above reproach.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Organ donation ethics

    1. Did you read the first link? The procedures as I said involved administering (possibly harmful) drugs like regitine/heparin which have no therapeutic value to the patient or witholding drugs which could interfere with the whole donation process.
    Treating patients (before any request for consent) like containers of spare parts doesn't engender any trust from the public.

    2. Basically Nancy Valko brought up troubling cases where patients were deemed hopeless(too soon according to established medical procedures) and set up for NHBD.

    3. Valko says treatment is not resumed and simply left to die. I assume this is due to differing hospital standards on procedures after the unexpected happens.

  7. #7

    Default Organ donation

    I had a another thread on the subject which disappeared.

    What are your opinions on organ donation wrt presumed consent and non-heart beating donors? Italy/Spain have presumed consent while Canada and Britain are mulling on the idea. NHBD refers to a new method of increasing the donor pool.
    http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/va...ndonation.html

  8. #8
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Look down the page slightly. You'll see it.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

  9. #9
    German Enthusiast Member Alexanderofmacedon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Oui, tis true.


  10. #10
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Presumes consent may anger some people, but I like the idea. Most people are pro-organ donation anyway, as are all major religions.

    As a side note I have an organ donar card that gives up all of my organs should I buy the farm.
    "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own."
    C.S. Lewis

    "So many people tiptoe through life, so carefully, to arrive, safely, at death."
    Jermaine Evans

  11. #11

    Default Re: Organ donation

    I have no problem with it....but I prefer to go into the ground whole thank you call me selfish all you want, but when it comes down to it, it's my body
    Formerly ceasar010

  12. #12

    Default Re: Organ donation

    Quote Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin
    Presumes consent may anger some people, but I like the idea. Most people are pro-organ donation anyway, as are all major religions.

    As a side note I have an organ donar card that gives up all of my organs should I buy the farm.
    I think two out of four of the worlds' major religions are only neutral on the issue of organ donation and probably all of them do not support presumed consent.

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