Creation vs Evolution

[Duke of Gloucester]

All I am attempting to establish is whether or not selective breeding is the mechanism we observe when "adaptation" occurs in microbiology. If it is not, what is the mechanism. You're getting a lot of mileage by arguing about whether or not this "proves" evolution, a step I have deliberately not taken.

True, but others have.

I'll just jump in here, I'm not an evelutionary biolagist but this occurs to me. The basic genes contained in all animals are the same. The same gene governs your arm and a fly's wing. That surely is compelling evidence of a common ancestor.

Now, take a snake for example. The snake has the genes to create legs but it's genome switches the gene off on every vertebrae and they all register a chest cavety with ribs instead but should the switch be flicked back on the snake could have ten legs.

Of course this could also be evidence of the same creator, although a common ancestor is a plausible explanation.

Look at Coyotes and Wolves, virtually the same genetically, they must have a common ancestor, if evolution is true, they look different but genetically the difference is close to nill. So maybe in looking at the record you need to fuzz the definition of species to see the crossover.

The definition of species is pretty fuzzy in any case. The Cyote/Wolf situation could also be explained by reference to a creator.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Thanks, Rory. I would like to see the original article though. The BBC link is not clear and I can't see why this is a new species. Nature probably explains it better.

"Colour patterns on the wings of the butterflies may be crucial in forming new species, because they serve as mating cues. These butterflies are extremely choosey about finding mates with their own, species-specific wing pattern."

This is interesting though, because it suggests that the butterflies know what they look like. Strange.

[Quietus]

crossroad, take the Leprechaun Test:

Do Leprechauns exist? (how did you know?)

Does God exist? (how did you know?)

What's the difference between God and Leprechauns? :)

[_Martyr_]

Leprechauns have red beards and green clothes, whilst God has a white beard and white clothes. They have a lot in common though, I mean for a start, they're both Irish...

[Quietus]

Leprechauns have red beards and green clothes, whilst God has a white beard and white clothes. They have a lot in common though, I mean for a start, they're both Irish...

And Santa has white beard and red/white clothes (they are all related).

[crossroad]

crossroad, take the Leprechaun Test:

Do Leprechauns exist? (how did you know?)

Does God exist? (how did you know?)

What's the difference between God and Leprechauns? :)

So, if I can't see God, or touch God, or hear God, does that mean He does not exist?

Wait a minute... what about Quietus's brain... I can't see it, touch it, hear it, does that mean it does not exist?

BTW, I think Leprechauns went extinct.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Wait a minute... what about Quietus's brain... I can't see it, touch it, hear it, does that mean it does not exist?

Unless you use a CT scan of course...or crack his skull open.

If you were being serious, that was an absolutely dreadful analogy.

[Tribesman]

Ahh, there is no book of Enoch
Typical , someone who claims to follow scriptures teachings but doesn't know scripture . tyical creationist
You really are stuck at a crossroads aren't you crossroads .

Now young man , would you care to reference the passage from the bible where it says murder is OK ?
Hmmmmm....is the reply the sound of silence from someone who is pushing scripture but doesn't know scripture ?????
Hey Bubba , its your topic , you bought it up , just like it is bought up every couple of weeks .
So have you any idea what you are on about , or is it just links to numerous sites that have already been shown to be bullshit ?

[InsaneApache]

Genesis 5:18-24 [18] Jared lived one hundred and sixty-two years, and begot Enoch. [19] After he begot Enoch, Jared lived eight hundred years, and had sons and daughters. [20] So all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years; and he died. [21] Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. [22] After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. [23] So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. [24] And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

Bloody hell, So all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years, some health system they had in the early bronze age. That's it, I'm gonna sign up to this.

If I lived that long I'd bankrupt uncle Tonys utopia. Now there's a reason to lose my rationale.

[crossroad]

Ahh, there is no book of Enoch
Typical , someone who claims to follow scriptures teachings but doesn't know scripture . tyical creationist
You really are stuck at a crossroads aren't you crossroads

There is no book of Enoch in the Bible. It was removed from Scriptures by the Sanhedrin in 90AD.

Now young man , would you care to reference the passage from the bible where it says murder is OK ?
Hmmmmm....is the reply the sound of silence from someone who is pushing scripture but doesn't know scripture ?????
Hey Bubba , its your topic , you bought it up , just like it is bought up every couple of weeks .
So have you any idea what you are on about , or is it just links to numerous sites that have already been shown to be bullshit ?

The silence comes as a result of loaded questions. If you knew anything about being a Christian, you would know the answers you are seeking.

[crossroad]

Unless you use a CT scan of course...or crack his skull open.

If you were being serious, that was an absolutely dreadful analogy.

I know, I couldn't help but use it. Sorry Quietus.

[Quietus]

I know, I couldn't help but use it. Sorry Quietus.

There's nothing to apologize for actually.

You do know that you forced yourself to say Leprechauns exists (or at least existed).

[Quietus]

So, if I can't see God, or touch God, or hear God, does that mean He does not exist?

If you have no proof, how can you say/claim God exists?

Wait a minute... what about Quietus's brain... I can't see it, touch it, hear it, does that mean it does not exist?

I have 100% proof that my brain exists and yet you're skeptical. You have 0% proof of God and you're not skeptical!

BTW, I think Leprechauns went extinct.

Really? Then you must have a lot of proof (such as, oh let's say, Leprechaun fossils).


Lastly check this out: http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articleA...awkingpope.php

"Famous British astrophysicist Stephen Hawking says pope told him not to study beginning of universe"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By MIN LEE Associated Press Writer
2006-06-15

HONG KONG (AP) - Famous astrophysicist Stephen Hawking said Thursday that the late Pope John Paul II once told scientists they should not study the beginning of the universe because it was the work of God.

The British author _ who wrote the best-seller "A Brief History of Time" _ said that the pope made the comments at a cosmology conference at the Vatican.

Hawking, who didn't say when the meeting was held, quoted the pope as saying, "It's OK to study the universe and where it began. But we should not enquire into the beginning itelf because that was the moment of creation and the work of God."

The scientist then joked during a lecture in Hong Kong, "I was glad he didn't realize I had presented a paper at the conference suggesting how the universe began. I didn't fancy the thought of being handed over to the Inquisition like Galileo."

The church condemned Galileo in the 17th century for supporting Nicholas Copernicus' discovery that Earth revolved around the sun. Church teaching at the time placed Earth at the center of the universe.

But in 1992, Pope John Paul II issued a declaration saying that the church's denunciation of Galileo was an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension."

Hawking is one of the best-known theoretical physicists of his generation. He has done groundbreaking research on black holes and the origins of the universe. He proposes that space and time have no beginning and no end.

His hourlong lecture to a sold-out audience at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology was highly theoretical and technical. During the question-and-answer session, Hawking was asked where constants like gravity come from and whether gravity can distort light.

But there were several light, humorous moments.

Hawking _ who must communicate with an electronic speech synthesizer _ said he once considered using a machine that gave him a French accent but he couldn't use it because his wife would divorce him.

The astrophysicist is wheelchair-bound and uses an electronic voice because he has the neurological disorder called amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, or ALS.

Hawking was asked why his computerized voice has an American accent.

"The voice I use is a very old hardware speech synthesizer made in 1986," he said. "I keep it because I have not heard a voice I like better and because I have identified with it."

But Hawking said he's shopping for a new system because the hardware he uses is large and fragile. He also said it uses components that are no longer made.

"I have been trying to get a software version, but it seems very difficult," he said.

He urged people with physical disabilities not to give up on their ambitions.

"You can't afford to be disabled in spirit as well as physically," he said. "People won't have time for you."

The moderator at the lecture told the audience that at a recent dinner, she asked Hawking what his ambitions were. He said he wanted to know how the universe began, what happens inside black holes and how can humans survive the next 100 years, she said.

But she added he had one more great ambition: "I would also like to understand women."

Hawking ended his lecture saying, "We are getting closer to answering the age-old questions: Why are we here? Where did we come from?"

Sounds like the late Pope was afraid what Hawking will discover.