View Poll Results: Creation vs Evolution

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  • Creation

    6 7.89%
  • Evolution

    53 69.74%
  • Combination

    12 15.79%
  • Gah! Other option, like planted by Alien's or we're in the Matrix!

    5 6.58%
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Thread: Creation vs Evolution

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  1. #1

    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Gloucester
    I think that Stephen Hawking was not remembering properly. He has made this claim before:

    Hawking and the Pope

    This is what the Pope actually said:

    Message ON EVOLUTION to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences

    Of course, this is not nearly so good a story.
    (From your first link: http://sycophants.info/hawking.html) Hawking did use very specific phrases:

    - "all right to study the evolution of the universe"
    - "after the big bang"
    - "should not inquire into the big bang itself"
    - "moment of Creation"
    - "therefore the work of God"

    He will make all that up and flat out lie?

  2. #2
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Wow, I just sat there and read all of those posts. It must have taken hours! Either way, I joined the thread rather late, and I wish I wouldn't have waited.

    I've noticed that Crossroad (There is NO "S" at the end of that!) has been giving TONS of links and proof of his evaluations, and so have some of the others. But, what's the use of proof when one doesn't even look at it? Doesn't even think of it? They all say they are baised. NOBODY is unbaised, all information you find on the internet is baised on way or the other because that's human nature. Many of you are demanding textual evidence of Crossroad's evaluations, and when he gives them you say something like,

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...i4/fossils.asp


    Now then , how many creationist topics have we had here recently , and how many times have they posted links to that bollox of a site
    and...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    wow isn't it amazing how much rubbish you can find on the internet .

    creation vs evolution
    religeous theories vs science theories
    what a pile of tripe
    whatever next , house vs tree , submarine vs colour ?
    This was said after Crossroad gave all of these links!

    Interesting how ONLY Crossroad's links have been knocked down. And he hasn't done that to you.

    I am a Creationist because the idea of the bible being wrong doesn't work in my mind. The bible said He created MAN on the sixth day in His image. And if my memory serves me right, evolution says that man evolved from monkeys, and back and back to single celled organisms.

    Answer me this, IF we evolved from monkeys, why in the world are there still monkeys? And why isn't the world pulling out a Planet of the Apes effect? Aren't the monkeys supposed to become more human-like?

    I believe in Natural Selection, Survival of the Fittest, and God's Will. No evolving just because it wants to. Change doesn't happen for no reason in nature. God made it that way, and he's not going to change it because he is reliable, just like when he promised Noah that he would never flood the Earth again.

    This post was longer then I wanted, but hopefully I answered questions, and I'm ready to get second guessed, because that's what happens on these kind of threads. Bring the heat, you can't bring me down. (hence my sub-name)

  3. #3
    Techie Rock Star Member crossroad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Zain
    Answer me this, IF we evolved from monkeys, why in the world are there still monkeys? And why isn't the world pulling out a Planet of the Apes effect?
    Great point Zain. We should be able to see evolution in the trees and caves right now. From the monkeys, through the different stages of cavemen, to humans as we know them now. Where are these animal-people? Why did they die off - hundreds if not thousands of stages of them, gone, but strangly, the monkeys did not!?!?!?!?
    This is my Signature. Just imagine it being a mind blowing axiom.

  4. #4
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Oh dear oh dear... A small amount of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but complete ignorance...

    Ok... There are ecological niches in the world. We did NOT evolve from modern day monkeys. We both evolved from a common ancestor. The paths we took were different, as the niches we occupy are different.

    Other types of "animal person" have been found. They are no longer around, either out fought or out bred by our ancestors (NOT us - they were slightly different).

    I'm assuming you've never heard that human features are becoming more delicate as time goes on, human brains are increasing in size slowly and the expression of certain genes is showing a population shift (such as ones to digest milk, and for brain size).

    Species are the snapshot of "now". We don't have a tail of our ancestors - they're dead. Perhaps ones from 5,000 years ago would on average be noticably different to us, 50,000 probably different to us. Genes drfted slowly to what we are now. There was not a fork in each species, the ancestral line of the humans metamorphosed and has almost artificial distinctions as to the nomenclature of the different types - in some cases possibly unhelpful.

    Oh, you've not used the "how did the human eye develop without God" argument - that's another classic.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  5. #5
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    Ok... There are ecological niches in the world. We did NOT evolve from modern day monkeys. We both evolved from a common ancestor. The paths we took were different, as the niches we occupy are different.
    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    There was not a fork in each species,
    Unless I misinterpreted what you said, i'm going to say that those two statements are COMPLETELY contradictory.

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    Oh, you've not used the "how did the human eye develop without God" argument - that's another classic.
    How about another argument, how did the reproductive system come out PERFECT without God?
    Last edited by Zain; 06-17-2006 at 22:14. Reason: Used the wrong quote

  6. #6

    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    I am a Creationist because the idea of the bible being wrong doesn't work in my mind. The bible said He created MAN on the sixth day in His image. And if my memory serves me right, evolution says that man evolved from monkeys, and back and back to single celled organisms.
    You misunderstand the theory of evolution. Man DID NOT evolve from monkeys, simply the current money species of today had a common ancestor with humans.

    Answer me this, IF we evolved from monkeys, why in the world are there still monkeys? And why isn't the world pulling out a Planet of the Apes effect? Aren't the monkeys supposed to become more human-like?
    Again, you completely misunderstand the process of evolution. It is not pre-destined that monkeys will evolve into human-like creatures. Each species evolved due to its circumstances, not some magical, pre-ordained destiny. The common ancestor of humans and monkeys was probably a tree-dwelling primate. Some of these went onto the plains as the forest dwindled, forced to by habitat change and the need to adapt, and gradually developed into humans (and other species) whereas the ones living in the trees did not need to evolve in this way, and instead adapted to their own environment differently.

    Evolution is determined by circumstance, it is not a linear path.

    That had nothing to do with the question. Why aren't there other monkey-humans walking around these days? I think in your mind you answered it in your other post, but just wanted to make sure you knew what you were talking about.
    There were human species living until very recently. As they were competing with homo sapiens, they were either less adapted and became extinct, or perhaps were absorbed into the more successful species in part (the neanderthal gene theory is controversial). Natural selection has (we think) wiped out all other species of human.

    That makes sense, but wouldn't that be called a combination of natural selection and adaptation?
    Also knows as.....evolution. See, we made it in the end.

    Another point: why do human fetuses have tails, and look almost identical to every other mammalian fetus?
    Last edited by KingOfTheIsles; 06-17-2006 at 22:30.

  7. #7
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfTheIsles
    You misunderstand the theory of evolution. Man DID NOT evolve from monkeys, simply the current money species of today had a common ancestor with humans.



    Again, you completely misunderstand the process of evolution. It is not pre-destined that monkeys will evolve into human-like creatures. Each species evolved due to its circumstances, not some magical, pre-ordained destiny. The common ancestor of humans and monkeys was probably a tree-dwelling primate. Some of these went onto the plains as the forest dwindled, forced to by habitat change and the need to adapt, and gradually developed into humans (and other species) whereas the ones living in the trees did not need to evolve in this way, and instead adapted to their own environment differently.

    Evolution is determined by circumstance, it is not a linear path.



    There were human species living until very recently. As they were competing with homo sapiens, they were either less adapted and became extinct, or perhaps were absorbed into the more successful species in part (the neanderthal gene theory is controversial). Natural selection has (we think) wiped out all other species of human.
    Okay, so humans didn't come from monkeys, whoop-dee-doo. I still don't see any monkey-cats walking around, or any other kind of transition. (I'm not making a connection between monkeys and cats, it's just a simple example)

  8. #8

    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Zain
    How about another argument, how did the reproductive system come out PERFECT without God?
    Zain, nothing is perfect. It's only an illusion.

    The DNA accumulates and losses information randomly (mutation) and these information are passed on during reproduction (sexual and asexual). Whichever organisms happen to have the better genetic information are generally favored to live and reproduce within their environment (natural selection). Hence those that have the inferior and wonky codes tend to die and disappear (natural selection as well). Hence creating the illusion that reproduction is perfect.

    Oh and here's how an eye can evolve:

    The human eye is not irreducibly complex

  9. #9
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus
    Zain, nothing is perfect. It's only an illusion.

    The DNA accumulates and losses information randomly (mutation) and these information are passed on during reproduction (sexual and asexual). Whichever organisms happen to have the better genetic information are generally favored to live and reproduce within their environment (natural selection). Hence those that have the inferior and wonky codes tend to die and disappear (natural selection as well). Hence creating the illusion that reproduction is perfect.

    Oh and here's how an eye can evolve:

    The human eye is not irreducibly complex
    Using the word "perfect" got me into a lot of trouble. Either way, It's still very well "planned".

  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    Oh, you've not used the "how did the human eye develop without God" argument - that's another classic.
    Naah ... you only missed it - see post #85

  11. #11
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    You are making the mistake of thinking that monkeys are inferior to extinct species of early humans. Monkeys are well adapted species for living in the environments where they reside. There is no objective trait that will determine what species survives natural selection, such as "being smarter" like you have mistakenly assumed.

    Earlier homonids would have been proficient in tool use and maybe even communication, but if a new variant would show up that is more proficient in exactly those areas that made the older ones succesful, and provided that he survives and procreates, his descendents will graduately displace the older variants.

    Monkeys didn't suffer from the same level of competition and thus lot's of monkey species remain, each well adapted to their respective environments.

  12. #12
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec
    You are making the mistake of thinking that monkeys are inferior to extinct species of early humans. Monkeys are well adapted species for living in the environments where they reside. There is no objective trait that will determine what species survives natural selection, such as "being smarter" like you have mistakenly assumed.

    Earlier homonids would have been proficient in tool use and maybe even communication, but if a new variant would show up that is more proficient in exactly those areas that made the older ones succesful, and provided that he survives and procreates, his descendents will graduately displace the older variants.

    Monkeys didn't suffer from the same level of competition and thus lot's of monkey species remain, each well adapted to their respective environments.
    That makes sense, but wouldn't that be called a combination of natural selection and adaptation?

  13. #13
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    He did... the human eye!!! More "evidence"! Oh my god! The amount of research to show how eyes could evolve... At least stick to picking holes in things, such proofs are only own goals.

    Zain: there are some forks, just not always forks. Two different things. Simple.

    A fork is one species becoming two, no fork is one species drifting over time to become what is termed a seperate one.

    Reproduction perfect ROFLMAO!!!

    Infertility clinics.
    it takes 20 million sperm for one egg.
    the sheer number of early abortions that the mother didn't even know was a pregnancy
    recurrent miscarriages
    ectopic pregnancies
    deaths of the mother before modern medicine
    parasitic twins
    conjoined twins
    congenital abnormailties

    Yeah, perfect... NEXT!

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  14. #14
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Hey creationists: explain rudimentary organs: you know like the tail bone, or some people actually being born with a tail. Why did God decided we needed a tail bone if we weren't meant to have a tail ? And why do some people have tails ?

    Also, the appendix, what's it still good for ?
    Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II

  15. #15
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by doc_bean
    Hey creationists: explain rudimentary organs: you know like the tail bone, or some people actually being born with a tail. Why did God decided we needed a tail bone if we weren't meant to have a tail ? And why do some people have tails ?
    The tail bone protects your rectum and other parts in that area from getting smashed whenever you fall on your butt. Deformities exist all the time, this one simply resembles a tail.


    Quote Originally Posted by doc_bean
    Also, the appendix, what's it still good for
    I don't know, I'm not a doctor, and that's not my strong point. Do you know of what the appendix DID?

  16. #16
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by doc_bean
    Why did God decided we needed a tail bone if we weren't meant to have a tail ?
    Ahh ... that's the keyword ... no creation vs. evolution thread without chick tracts (sorry for regularly postings these ... but I am a regular aficionado, and as everything in these discussions is a repitition anyway...):

    Big Daddy?

    This should answer all your questions

    Please note the spectacularly witty and convincing:
    Quote Originally Posted by guy with mesmerizing stare
    Even if they were "vestigial" organs, isn't losing something the opposite of evolution?

  17. #17
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by crossroad
    Great point Zain. We should be able to see evolution in the trees and caves right now. From the monkeys, through the different stages of cavemen, to humans as we know them now. Where are these animal-people? Why did they die off - hundreds if not thousands of stages of them, gone, but strangly, the monkeys did not!?!?!?!?
    There's an oak tree outside my house. It's bloody big. There's no trace of the acorn it once was, but it grew from the acorn. You can't see the tree grow. There are no smaller trees embedded in the larger one. But it did grow from the acorn.

    You'll just have to take that one on belief ok?

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

  18. #18
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation vs Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    There's an oak tree outside my house. It's bloody big. There's no trace of the acorn it once was, but it grew from the acorn. You can't see the tree grow. There are no smaller trees embedded in the larger one. But it did grow from the acorn.

    You'll just have to take that one on belief ok?

    That had nothing to do with the question. Why aren't there other monkey-humans walking around these days? I think in your mind you answered it in your other post, but just wanted to make sure you knew what you were talking about.

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