Creation vs Evolution

**Tribesman** · 06-18-2006, 16:50

Rythmic , don't forget that according to the extention of that theory we are the descendants the of really dumb useless aliens who replaced the cavemen that didn't live in caves .
Remember to pay homage to the mice and dolpins , the true overlords of mankind .

So, let's leave the pointless maths out of it, shall we?

42

**Duke of Gloucester** · 06-18-2006, 17:54

Originally Posted by Quietus

(From your first link: http://sycophants.info/hawking.html) Hawking did use very specific phrases:

- "all right to study the evolution of the universe"
- "after the big bang"
- "should not inquire into the big bang itself"
- "moment of Creation"
- "therefore the work of God"

He will make all that up and flat out lie?

Well there are two possibilities - either the Pope did tell Stephen Hawking not to investigate the big bang itself, or he didn't. Evidence in favour of the Pope having done so is his SH's statement and the fact he has repeated it consistently i.e when he re-tells the story severall times he doesn't vary it signficantly. Evidence against the Pope saying this is:

no similar statements from other attendees
no evidence in the text of the address that such a statement was made
no evidence of the Pope making similar statements at other times
the fact that such a statement would be inconsistent with the Pope's approach to science
to say that the moment of creation was the work of God but the rest of nature is not is theologically flawed. I think the Pope would realise this, but Stephen Hawking might not.

Make up your own mind, based on the evidence.

**Quietus** · 06-18-2006, 22:25

Originally Posted by Duke of Gloucester

Well there are two possibilities - either the Pope did tell Stephen Hawking not to investigate the big bang itself, or he didn't. Evidence in favour of the Pope having done so is his SH's statement and the fact he has repeated it consistently i.e when he re-tells the story severall times he doesn't vary it signficantly. Evidence against the Pope saying this is:

no similar statements from other attendees
no evidence in the text of the address that such a statement was made
no evidence of the Pope making similar statements at other times
the fact that such a statement would be inconsistent with the Pope's approach to science
to say that the moment of creation was the work of God but the rest of nature is not is theologically flawed. I think the Pope would realise this, but Stephen Hawking might not.

Make up your own mind, based on the evidence.

Ok Duke. Coincidentally I clicked upon this Hawking 'quotes' link and behold the answer. :)

http://atheism.about.com/library/quo...q_SHawking.htm

and I quote:

At the end of the conference the participants were granted an audience with the pope. He told us that it was all right to study the evolution of the universe after the big bang, but we should not inquire into the big bang itself because that was the moment of Creation and therefore the work of God. I was glad then that he did know the subject of the talk I had just given at the conference --

Note the line i've bolded was not in your first link's quote: (http://sycophants.info/hawking.html). Hence, what the pope said was not recorded since the event or encounter Hawking was referring to occurred after the conference. :)

**Duke of Gloucester** · 06-18-2006, 22:39

Interesting, but it also says "participants" and "us". It would be interesting to see if any other delegates have the same recollection of the audience. If they do, then we can take Hawking's account as being reliable. Until there is corroborating testimony, other objections (especially the theological one) suggest to me that he has not remembered or did not understand what he was told.

**Duke of Gloucester** · 06-18-2006, 22:42

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Anyway, why did the movie miss out the dolphins? Or did I fall asleep at the wrong moment?

The movie was terrible. Any time you were asleep was the right moment.

**Tribesman** · 06-18-2006, 23:17

http://www.jengajam.com/r/dolphins-so-long-thank
A message from the dolphins

**Avicenna** · 06-18-2006, 20:38

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Rythmic , don't forget that according to the extention of that theory we are the descendants the of really dumb useless aliens who replaced the cavemen that didn't live in caves .
Remember to pay homage to the mice and dolpins , the true overlords of mankind .

So, let's leave the pointless maths out of it, shall we?

42

Wait, dolphins? Since when did the dolphins join in?

**Duke of Gloucester** · 06-18-2006, 20:46

You need to read the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, partly because it is a really funny book, but also because you need a good knowledge of the trilogy to understand many org references. Watching Monty Python is important for the same reasons.

**Avicenna** · 06-18-2006, 21:27

depressent

**Avicenna** · 06-18-2006, 21:30

Originally Posted by Tiberius

depressent

Oh dear, sorry about that. Forgot that I had copied something else, as the quick reply failed once again.

Anyway, why did the movie miss out the dolphins? Or did I fall asleep at the wrong moment?

**doc_bean** · 06-18-2006, 22:18

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Oh dear, sorry about that. Forgot that I had copied something else, as the quick reply failed once again.

Anyway, why did the movie miss out the dolphins? Or did I fall asleep at the wrong moment?

It was the very first scene, even before the titles iirc. It also worked much better in the book, as did everything else that was in the movie. Read the books, seriously (just the first three, the rest is crap...)