Creation vs Evolution

[rory_20_uk]

Here they do. They are suing doctors more and more. And it is having a bad effect on how doctors do things. More and more we do things "because otherwise you'll get sued". Not a good way to practice medicine.

And did you know: in the UK 85% of medical notes would not pass legal scrutiny. 95% of surgical notes wouldn't pass legal scrutiny.

So, if you sue a doctor / hospital there's a very good chance that they'll be hampered by the poor quality of their own notes. Also hospitals are so scared of getting labelled as a "bad" hospital they'll generally settle out of court.

[Redleg]

Its really not all that hard to fanthom a religious view on creation and evolution that exists in harmony with each other.

The problem exists when extremists on both sides attempt to force others into their belief system.

[doc_bean]

Here they do. They are suing doctors more and more. And it is having a bad effect on how doctors do things. More and more we do things "because otherwise you'll get sued". Not a good way to practice medicine.

Yeah, that's what people fear would happen here too. Still, there should be some way of stopping incapable doctors though, the problem is, i guess, that there are too few doctors to begin with, so the standards for mediacal students aren't as high as they should be.

So, if you sue a doctor / hospital there's a very good chance that they'll be hampered by the poor quality of their own notes. Also hospitals are so scared of getting labelled as a "bad" hospital they'll generally settle out of court.

Pretty much any hospital here works at maximum capacity (shortage of rooms is not a rarity) so they don't really have much to fear. Probably why the 'hospital bacteria' is so common here these days.

[Tribesman]

And still your views aren't backed by anything you say. Still you only ridicule.
Its quite simple , can you explain the workings of a rainbow , you know the light reacting through the water , now corelate that information with scripture , find any problems do you ?????
Yep its ridiculous .
Now , do you want to deal with pitch , or if you want you could explore the problems with shipbuilding , launching and grounding which make the ark story impossible , but stick with pitch for now , what do the creationists claim about these deposits and when they were formed ?
once again ridiculous .
How about the insects then , it appears that crossroad does not know scripture does he , is he is making it up as he goes along ?
so starting a discussion on the basis of something you do not know very well , but with a strong yet unworkable viewpoint....ridiculous .
Talking of scripture , can you spot how many other serious errors he has made in his claims ? you do know scripture don't you ? especially those parts that deal with the story of creation and the flood ?
Perhaps not
Trying to mix science and faith , yet disregarding the core of each , truly a task for those whose faith and knowledge is lacking .

You have no life, as everyone here can see from your 4,800 posts!
Hmmmm...now what did I write earlier ? I think you may have quoted it somewhere .....

[rory_20_uk]

Yeah, that's what people fear would happen here too. Still, there should be some way of stopping incapable doctors though, the problem is, i guess, that there are too few doctors to begin with, so the standards for mediacal students aren't as high as they should be.

Medical student grades in Britain are as tough as it gets. But grades are not the be all and end all of a good doctor. To decide who is a good doctor in 5 to 6 years time is impossible - even if the applicant is honest at interview. If they are trying to get to positions of responsibility to abuse them they'll be almost impossible to catch.

[crossroad]

Phrases such as God making the Pharoh stubborn so he could visit plagues on him makes me think that he is far from perfect. Saying that "god knows best" is a complete whitewash, and is in the best traditions of the Inquisition, as one has then stopped thinking at all, even when faced with problems.

Hebrew active verbs can express permission and not direct action. This explanation unquestionably clarifies the question of God hardening Pharaoh’s heart. When the text says that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, it means that God would permit or allow Pharaoh’s heart to be hardened.

You say he is as active now as he was then, although all evidence clearly points to the opposite. The odd documented miracle hardly suffices.

What odd documented miracle? Please explain.
John Cox, a friend of mine, became forever convinced when he accidentally stuck his hand in a blender. Needless to say, the blender mangled his fingers, blood began to pour. His father immediately wrapped his hand in a towel and prayed for him. In the process of going to the hospital, they discovered that John had no cuts on his hand whatsoever, no blood pouring, no mangled fingers. Miracle? Why not? There are plenty of examples out there.

As a doctor one thing that really annoys me is this:

Something goes well. People thank God for it all.
Something goes badly. People question / rant at the doctors.

Any time you deal with people, annoyances may happen.

We did all the work to make people better. If in spite of this they died clearly they should be asking God for answers, not man.

I thank God for doctors. But you've got to admit, loosing a loved one is devastating. I'm sure it is sometimes hard to be patient with them.

Zoos do lock up animals. They frequently go mad in under a year. Young often have increased needs for food due to the speed they are growing at.

Good point, but we still have sane animals in zoos. The young still eat less than the old.

Worrying about algae supplying oxygen is pointless. If God can flood the planet then there is no need to try to use fragments of science to make this so. Just blanket the whole issue with "god worked it out, OK?"

It's not pointless if it leads to further understanding.

The animals were placed in suspended animation for a year, after God teleported them to their cubicals.

See? Much simpler with trying to shoehorn science to fit the facts.

Actually, we're now using philosophy and logic along with science. Whether you want to admit or not, scientists use all three to come up with a theory.

[Zain]

Its quite simple , can you explain the workings of a rainbow , you know the light reacting through the water , now corelate that information with scripture , find any problems do you ?????
Yep its ridiculous .
Now , do you want to deal with pitch , or if you want you could explore the problems with shipbuilding , launching and grounding which make the ark story impossible , but stick with pitch for now , what do the creationists claim about these deposits and when they were formed ?
once again ridiculous .
How about the insects then , it appears that crossroad does not know scripture does he , is he is making it up as he goes along ?
so starting a discussion on the basis of something you do not know very well , but with a strong yet unworkable viewpoint....ridiculous .
Talking of scripture , can you spot how many other serious errors he has made in his claims ? you do know scripture don't you ? especially those parts that deal with the story of creation and the flood ?
Perhaps not
Trying to mix science and faith , yet disregarding the core of each , truly a task for those whose faith and knowledge is lacking .

And yet, nothing about your own beliefs. Only ridiculing someone else.

Hmmmm...now what did I write earlier ? I think you may have quoted it somewhere .....

And now, you make no sense.

[crossroad]

...can you answer this.

How exactly did these innocent creatures offend the Almighty? (Unless they had been inadvertently fed to the denizens of Sodom and Gomorrah ).

God created them, He can certainly destroy them. Innocence has nothing to do with it.

[crossroad]

Awww poor little boy doesn't want to play anymore , boohoo, whassup cross , are you stuck with the science of the rainbow ?
stuck with the insects , stuck with shipbuilding , stuck with the pitch , stuck with food , stuck with amphibians , stuck with excrement .
Tell you what , to make it easy , you are even stuck with simple arithmetic, you posted figures from a widely discredited source that don't add up .
But thats no surprise as you get all your information from widely discredited websites .

Oh and nice to see that yet again you have shown your ignorance of scripture .
Now that is strange from someone who is pushing a scriptural account of the earth .


Talk about make it up as you go along.

Creationism , the realm of the feeble minded of little faith .

Have you listened to yourself? What, are you twelve? Zain, you are right.

[Mithrandir]

Where is a dancing lock smiley when you need one...

[crossroad]

Well, I'm certainly not a flood supporter, people tend to forget he needed to take all the plants too, people always forget about the plants...

and a zoo has, like, 0.000001% of all wildlife to be found on earth in it.

The plants did not need to be taken care of.
Zoo's were just an example of man caging up animals.

[Tribesman]

And yet, nothing about your own beliefs.
So you wish to avoid the questions I have asked , no surprise there really , crossroad wishes to do the same .
Each question has been relevant to this discussion , yet because you do not like the possible answers you try to pass them as simple ridicule .
That is probably because attempting to take an ancient , yet heavily edited , mistranslated document and attempting to interpret it literally , or even worse , to attempt to fit scientific theories and findings to the document is a ridiculous premise .

[Zain]

Where is a dancing lock smiley when you need one...

And you would lock this why? Because we're trying to knock some sense into someone who doesn't do anything but ridicule, and who doesn't contribute to the conversation in anyway, but sits on the sidelines until he feels he can strike?

[rory_20_uk]

Personal attacks are not allowed.
A thread which is merely people accusing each other is again not allowed.
A thread that is failing to cover any new ground is also usually locked.
No one is knocking sense into anyone. After 10 pages that in itself would give a mod "due cause"

[Zain]

And yet, nothing about your own beliefs.
So you wish to avoid the questions I have asked , no surprise there really , crossroad wishes to do the same .
Each question has been relevant to this discussion , yet because you do not like the possible answers you try to pass them as simple ridicule .
That is probably because attempting to take an ancient , yet heavily edited , mistranslated document and attempting to interpret it literally , or even worse , to attempt to fit scientific theories and findings to the document is a ridiculous premise .

There is a difference in asking questions honestly, and asking questions mockingly. Also, 100% of that post was knocking down the bible and the people defending it! There's also a difference between asking questions for the fun of it, and trying to gain some knowledge. And YOU are avoiding the fact that you don't say a darn thing about your own beliefs, and you constantly insist on bashing ours.

[doc_bean]

The plants did not need to be taken care of.
Zoo's were just an example of man caging up animals.

Err.. 99.99999% of land plants would die if they were put under water for a significant amount of time (even a few hours should mess up some of them).

If the glood happened, the animals would have had nothing to eat after the water drew back.

(Yes, yes, unless God magically protected the plants, or magically put them back or whatever.... fanwank )

EDIT: Zain, you know you can put people in an ignore list, don't you ?

[InsaneApache]

What odd documented miracle? Please explain.
John Cox, a friend of mine, became forever convinced when he accidentally stuck his hand in a blender. Needless to say, the blender mangled his fingers, blood began to pour. His father immediately wrapped his hand in a towel and prayed for him. In the process of going to the hospital, they discovered that John had no cuts on his hand whatsoever, no blood pouring, no mangled fingers. Miracle? Why not? There are plenty of examples out there.

prove it.

[Zain]

Personal attacks are not allowed.
A thread which is merely people accusing each other is again not allowed.
A thread that is failing to cover any new ground is also usually locked.
No one is knocking sense into anyone. After 10 pages that in itself would give a mod "due cause"

So you like the fact that all he does is ridicule, and doesn't constructively add to the discussion? I say we kick him out!

[Mithrandir]

Some patrons are certainly close to pushing this thread over the edge

If you are running out of arguments and have to resort to personal attacks you better take a break and refrain from posting.

Play it nice and this thread will be kept open.

Play it foul and this thread will be locked and ... yadda yadda ... serious consequences (you know the game)

Ah found it..

[Tribesman]

Because we're trying to knock some sense into someone who doesn't do anything but ridicule, and who doesn't contribute to the conversation in anyway, but sits on the sidelines until he feels he can strike?
Still no answers then .
Come on surely you can explain the rainbow .

[Zain]

Zain, you know you can put people in an ignore list, don't you ?

Yes, but the fact that he does it is bothering me.

prove it.

Is that simply a way of ignoring his words? I think so.

[rory_20_uk]

So you like the fact that all he does is ridicule, and doesn't constructively add to the discussion? I say we kick him out!

I did not say that. For the record: I dislike those that mindelessly ridicule. Hence why i like it here so much.

People should not be kicked out without a very good reason.

When a discussion gets to that point I feel it needs to be placed in the "agree to disagree" catergory in case it spills elsewhere to the detriment of all.

[Zain]

Because we're trying to knock some sense into someone who doesn't do anything but ridicule, and who doesn't contribute to the conversation in anyway, but sits on the sidelines until he feels he can strike?
Still no answers then .
Come on surely you can explain the rainbow .

This is becoming tiring. Why don't you get over the fact that you aren't contributing to the problems at hand? Here's you the rainbow!!!

A rainbow is an optical and meteorological phenomenon that causes a nearly continuous spectrum of light to appear in the sky when the Sun shines onto droplets of moisture in the Earth's atmosphere. It takes the form of a multicoloured arc, with red on the outside and violet on the inside.

The rainbow's appearance is caused by dispersion of sunlight as it is refracted by (approximately spherical) raindrops. The light is first refracted as it enters the surface of the raindrop, reflected off the back of the drop, and again refracted as it leaves the drop. The overall effect is that the incoming light is reflected back over a wide range of angles.

[Mithrandir]

, wow just at him go! Dancing day and night...

[Zain]

I did not say that. For the record: I dislike those that mindelessly ridicule. Hence why i like it here so much.

People should not be kicked out without a very good reason.

When a discussion gets to that point I feel it needs to be placed in the "agree to disagree" catergory in case it spills elsewhere to the detriment of all.

Are we agreeing or disagreeing the fact that he's a menace that mindlessly ridicules?

[Soulforged]

And you would lock this why? Because we're trying to knock some sense into someone who doesn't do anything but ridicule, and who doesn't contribute to the conversation in anyway, but sits on the sidelines until he feels he can strike?

Everything is right except for the part of "sense" and "rediculing". You're not trying to "knock" some sense, but the opposite, Tribesman is for one a more informed person and older than you, perhaps when you and crossroad read a little more will realize that the debate in itself if for weak minded people or with a weak faith. You need to get some sense of reality and logics, some sense of religion and science, and then perhaps you'll not even have the necessity to fall in the redicule or in pointless discussions as this one. On the other hand what is ridicule here is not you, but creationism in itself, and so everyone who adopts that "theory" and defends it could be treated as an ignorant by its very definition.

[Mithrandir]

Are we agreeing or disagreeing the fact that he's a menace that mindlessly ridicules?

Take a chillpill.

Ignore things you find insulting, it will make life so much easier...

and this forum a bit more relaxed. Let the Backroom staff handle possible breaching of the forum rules.

This is meant for all participating patrons.

-Mithrandir.

[Zain]

Everything is right except for the part of "sense" and "rediculing". You're not trying to "knock" some sense, but the opposite, Tribesman is for one a more informed person and older than you, perhaps when you and crossroad read a little more will realize that the debate in itself if for weak minded people or with a weak faith. You need to get some sense of reality and logics, some sense of religion and science, and then perhaps you'll not even have the necessity to fall in the redicule or in pointless discussions as this one. On the other hand what is ridicule here is not you, perhaps you're want to fall there for some reason (?), what is ridicule is creationism in itself, and so everyone who adopts that "theory" and defends it could be treated as an ignorant by its very definition.

He certainly hasn't shown his "more informed" side. I'm only hacking on him because he has been mindlessly ridiculing, and in a discussion of mature induviduals, that is looked down upon.

[crossroad]

Err.. 99.99999% of land plants would die if they were put under water for a significant amount of time (even a few hours should mess up some of them).

If the glood happened, the animals would have had nothing to eat after the water drew back.

(Yes, yes, unless God magically protected the plants, or magically put them back or whatever.... fanwank )

EDIT: Zain, you know you can put people in an ignore list, don't you ?

Seeds, doc, seeds! Read the flood account and you will see that the tops of mountains could have been exposed for months before the ark came to rest on mount Ararat. Plants would have had time to regrow.

[Tribesman]

Ah an answer , thankyou .
Now could you explain how light didn't react in that way before the flood ?