Campaign map low res screens...

[Lucjan]

I have a sneaking suspicion they'll be lazy and pull something like they did with VI, have two seperate campaigns and two seperate maps.

[TB666]

I have a sneaking suspicion they'll be lazy and pull something like they did with VI, have two seperate campaigns and two seperate maps.

Well if those 2 campaigns are equally good then I don't mind .
But I think they said in one of the previews that it would be on the same map.

[Silver Rusher]

I have a sneaking suspicion they'll be lazy and pull something like they did with VI, have two seperate campaigns and two seperate maps.

So you would have wanted to play a long campaign as the HRE, and rather than discovering the new world your people would have invented a time machine which allowed one of your armies to go back to Britain in the dark ages and conquer it on behalf of your new-fangled time and space empire?

Besides, I think that when the time comes you will be able to switch the map over to the New World, do some stuff there, then switch the map back onto Europe and continue the campaign there.

[Lucjan]

So you would have wanted to play a long campaign as the HRE, and rather than discovering the new world your people would have invented a time machine which allowed one of your armies to go back to Britain in the dark ages and conquer it on behalf of your new-fangled time and space empire?

Besides, I think that when the time comes you will be able to switch the map over to the New World, do some stuff there, then switch the map back onto Europe and continue the campaign there.

...you seem confused, because I have no clue what you're talking about.

I said they might put the aztecs and mayans and such in a completely different campaign similar to how VI worked with MTW.

Where in the world did you get time machines from?

[Lord Adherbal]

All the TW-games has had a serious anti-climax when ever a unit charges because only the front rank do anything. I seriously doubt the others behind just sat there and waited for the guy in front to die before they got some action.
I seriously doubt that after they picking up such speed when they charge that the ones in the back would just stop and wait in line like they do in TW.
And I seriously doubt the front rank would form a neat straight line and just poke their swords and spears at the enemies front ranks.
While yes the front rank shouldn't run past the enemies front rank like that(atleast not all of them) and should start fighting the moment the collision happens but the others behind shouldn't wait like in previous game but pick out their own targets as well and start fighting as well. MTW2 is heading there and fighting itself seems to get better and better.
If we have a time machine and go back and see a medieval battle I think this is pretty much what we will see, a mess of troops.

depending on weapons used of course, but most combat WAS standing in line poking at eachother. Phalanxes and romans with their large shields depended entirely on that. Charging and jumping in/over enemies is complete hollywood nonsense. If you did that you'd probably knock over your opponent, but you'd go down too, in the middle of the enemy formation. Not something you'd want to happen unless you're suicidal or hollywood actor.
Medieval armies - unlike what you see in movies and even MTW - relied mostly on spear armed infantry, who would fight in very close formations (shield wall). Later on spears when replaced by pikes and halberds.
Unless you were a crazy berserker or suicidal you wouldn't blindly charge your enemy, you'd stick as close to the protection of your brothers in arms as possible.

[MaximianusBR]

depending on weapons used of course, but most combat WAS standing in line poking at eachother. Phalanxes and romans with their large shields depended entirely on that. Charging and jumping in/over enemies is complete hollywood nonsense. If you did that you'd probably knock over your opponent, but you'd go down too, in the middle of the enemy formation. Not something you'd want to happen unless you're suicidal or hollywood actor.
Medieval armies - unlike what you see in movies and even MTW - relied mostly on spear armed infantry, who would fight in very close formations (shield wall). Later on spears when replaced by pikes and halberds.
Unless you were a crazy berserker or suicidal you wouldn't blindly charge your enemy, you'd stick as close to the protection of your brothers in arms as possible.

maybe it happened cause it was a unit using long axes(???) so they would prefer a strong charge to dismenber enemy line...and the atacked unit used litle weapons no spears and shields...

[TB666]

I can agree with the phalanxes and romans and the spear units. But wasn't the main objective for the traditional phalanx to break the enemies formation like a wrecking ball ?? While with a big shield like they had in a phalanx this wasn't easy if the enemy fought in the same way and those lines would indeed be created. But the unit in the video has no shields and are using a 2-handed weapon and aren't in a very tight formation either.
As I said earlier, it doesn't look perfect, they shouldn't run through them like that and should react to the first rank but it looks far better then let's say RTW where sometimes the unit stops and slowly walk up to the enemy and these are berserkers I'm talking about.
But if you look on you can see the cavarly doesn't have this and do hit the front rank.

[MaximianusBR]

I can agree with the phalanxes and romans and the spear units. But wasn't the main objective for the traditional phalanx to break the enemies formation like a wrecking ball ?? While with a big shield like they had in a phalanx this wasn't easy if the enemy fought in the same way and those lines would indeed be created. But the unit in the video has no shields and are using a 2-handed weapon and aren't in a very tight formation either.
As I said earlier, it doesn't look perfect, they shouldn't run through them like that and should react to the first rank but it looks far better then let's say RTW where sometimes the unit stops and slowly walk up to the enemy and these are berserkers I'm talking about.
But if you look on you can see the cavarly doesn't have this and do hit the front rank.

agree with you...

[Lord Adherbal]

suppose I gave you an axe, and tell you and your axe carrying friends to go and attack an enemy formation of halberdiers. Would you charge and crash through the enemy or advance with causion ? If you charge you'll most likely end up with a halberd spearpoint in your stomach.

and halberdier formations actualy fought simular to spearmen. They formed a dense wall of spearpoints to keep the enemy at distance, and then individuals would chop at the enemy with the halberd blade, or pull shields and weapons away with the hook, so that other halberdiers can stab at the exposed enemy. Later on halberds got a cross section on the handle that could be use to block enemy attacks.
None of this charge in the middle of enemy formation nonsense that you see in this video.

[screwtype]

depending on weapons used of course, but most combat WAS standing in line poking at eachother. Phalanxes and romans with their large shields depended entirely on that. Charging and jumping in/over enemies is complete hollywood nonsense.

Not only that, but Roman troops had a method whereby the troops in a maniple would rotate every few minutes from the front to the rear, that way they didn't exhaust themselves and had a chance to recover and keep going. In that video the enemy are barging right through to the rear, as if the body of men they were attacking had no mass at all!

Same with the cannon. They bounce up and down and all around like they were made of paper. The whole thing just looks unbelievably silly.

And I allowed myself to have high hopes for this game. Looks like I was just kidding myself.

[Lord Adherbal]

Adherbal,

You must realize that a medieval heavy cav war horse or light cav charger was really hard to stop once the charge has begun

yeah, but I'm not talking about cavalry, but infantry.

[Ibn Munqidh]

yeah, but I'm not talking about cavalry, but infantry.

Sorry then, irrelevant.

[Ibn Munqidh]

Same with the cannon. They bounce up and down and all around like they were made of paper. The whole thing just looks unbelievably silly.

errm, screwtype, you do understand the concept of recoil in firearms do you? This is normal of anything that goes boom on one end.

[Grifman]

So much drama, so little time . . .

[Duke John]

Such a waste of time . . .

[econ21]

depending on weapons used of course, but most combat WAS standing in line poking at eachother. Phalanxes and romans with their large shields depended entirely on that. Charging and jumping in/over enemies is complete hollywood nonsense.

I'm sure you are right overall, but there was a lovely historical account posted recently (I think on the EB forums) of how Roman soldiers climbed over the shields of their enemies in their eagerness to get at them. Now that might have been a Roman general over-selling his boys for the folks back home but I suspect there's an element of truth in it. Studies of modern warfare tend to show it is something like 1/20 soldiers who are the real killers who take risks and act offensively. The way elite units and special forces can overcome larger numbers of lower quality troops probably reflect them having a higher proportion of such men, whether by selection, esprit de corps or training. I'm prepared to believe the Roman legionnaires at their prime might have had that advantage over some of their opponents. Ditto the Vikings, the Mongols, the Conquistadores, the Zulus etc in their day. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog, and all that.

[Ignoramus]

What is this nonsense about England conquering Rome and Constantinople? It was French Crusaders who conquered Constantinople, and as for the English cinquering Rome, I have never heard such utter rubbish in my life! And if England only has 4 starting territories, I wonder how many Scotland will have?

I have grave fears about Medieval Total War II, in fact, at this rate compared to Rome: Total War, Rome: Total War looks like a very good game. And compare it to the original MTW, this is a cheap, worthless, ahistorical scrap of plastic and cardboard.

[B-Wing]

Ignoramus, I think you're mistaking the English victory conditions for historical achievements. Obviously, whatever mode is being played in that screenshot is not the same thing as MTW's victory point mode, whatever it was called. So calm down.

[Mooks]

That german commander...complete noob. Did anyone else catch how the enemy on his left flank just went through his small infantry and started to attack his artillery? Rout in 2 minutes.

Heres another thing. Why were the enemy advancing on him? He attacked THEM, yet they cleary charged across teh battlefield and attacked, is this possibly because of his adv in long range artillery?

The infantry collision made me laugh. It looks like the enemy couldve just walked through his infantry. And the cannons, they fired TWO SHOTS, how can anything be effective after only 2 shots? All the units reminded me of olympic cross-country runners (running that far, in a suit of armor, in the desert, is extremely hard. Then fighting...)

The romans fough pushing their sheilds against the enemy and stabbing with their gladius from below (hitting..you know..the groin). The were alot more agressive then RTW.

I was thinking about getting this game for christmas or something...but 'glory of the roman empire' city building game is looking nice....

Is CA even reading what we post? Must as well stop posting feedback because they obviosly dont read it.

[Lucjan]

CA had said from the beginning that realism wasn't going to be their focus for M2, but after seeing that pathetic display (cannons bouncing around like ragdolls and a unit littering not stopping to fight until it had run halfway through its target's formation) I'm going to have to abandon my moderationist outlook on the game. Unless there are some serious improvements to the way battles are conducted within the next couple months before release, the only way I'd purchase this game is if it could be modded so that stupid hollywood nonsense like that simply doesn't occur.