The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations

[econ21]

This thread is devoted to in-character communications about the Rome Total Realism Platinum PBM explained here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...29&postcount=2

For all out of character business - including volunteering to join the campaign - please post in the above thread.

This thread should be for Senate business only. Consul reports will be in a separate thread.

On a personal note, I will post in two strictly separate capacities: as Senate Speaker (which I will preface by SENATE SPEAKER and write in normal type) and as an ordinary participant (which I will preface by the name of my avatar, currently Quintus, and write in italics).

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Italy in 280BC - Rome holds only three provinces: Roma, Capua and Ancona


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SENATE ANNOUNCEMENTS, 270 Summer

The Senate will meet for an interim session in Autumn 268 BC.

[econ21]

SENATE SPEAKER: Order! Order! Senators, please take your seats! The Senate is in session.

The deadline for electing the First Consul is Friday 6pm UK time.

The deadline for submitting Senate motions is Wednesday 6pm UK time.

Voting in the elections and on motions will be possible from Wednesday 6pm until Friday 6pm.

Now is the time to propose motions and give direction to the future First Consul, whoever he may be.

Senators, the situation is critical! King Pyrrhus has landed in south Italy with a large army. Rome herself is in danger. Now is the time for you to make your voices heard. What must be done to save the Republic?

Now, gentlemen, order! Order! Do not all try to speak at once. The portly Senator over there, you Sir! You have the floor! Go on, man, speak!

[Avicenna]

Well, what's there to say? Pyrrhus, military genius of our time, some have said. Some have even claimed him to be the heir of Alexander in warfare! We must not allow this threat to march around our lands. Rome's interests in Italia must be defended! The annihilation of Pyrrhus will win over the hearts of the Italians, and leave the settlements Croton and Taras ripe for picking. I propose that the Epeirotes be driven off our Italian soil and sent to an early grave! I recommend that the Senate send Senator Quintus to this critical battle. His years of experience and strategic skill are Rome's best hope.

We are not invincible, though. In the case of defeat, I suggest that the Senate raises a Third Legion of the Republic from our current Italian holdings, to protect our Republic from attack. We should also send out diplomat to the east, and persuade the barbarians he meets to trade with civilised Romans. Who knows? Perhaps they will see the light, and rid themselves of their barbaric customs, and adopt civilised Roman culture. In particular, we should pursue friendly relations with the Gauls and Illyrians as we are locked in war with the Greeks. Perhaps even an alliance with the Illyrians against the perfumed Greeks would be beneficial to us.

[Glaucus]

Fellow Senators of The Glorious Republic of Rome, I address you. Our civilized nation lies at a cross roads, to the north lie the barbaric hordes of Gaul, while to the south the Greeks plot to undermine us.

I second the motion of uniting southern Italy, by destroying Pyrrhus's army and then assuming control of the towns in the south. The Greeks must fall hard and soon if we are to maintain control in Italia. Quintus is indeed the best choice, let us give him both legions and may Mars guide him. In the meantime, I propose we hold off the taming of Gaul. Appease them by signing a trade agreement. I propose the new Third Legion be sent north, to gaurd our lands in case of invasion from the north while we pacify the south.

Also, I propse we get a trade agreement with a more civilized power. Carthage lies across the sea, on land that, who knows, may one day be ours. I propose we get a trade agreement with them also, what helps two parties obviously cannot hurt either in the short term, and we need all the money we can get, in order to supply the Third Legion.

ab cedo ab area
I yield the floor

[Dutch_guy]

Fellow members of the senate of Rome, it is now that we lay the foundations for our still young empire, we must not flounder !

Therefor I say we must - in order to save the republic of course - deny these barbaric greeks to set foot in our beloved Italia !

We must drive out this Pyrrus with our mighty legions, this must be done as soon as possibly can. If left unchallenged he'll surely make an effort to take Paesium and Corfinium, when he has those Rome's but a half years march away !

We must meet him in the field, destroy him, and claim southern Italia - Our Italia !

Once the south is fortified, croton and tarentum taken, we must make contact with the Carthaginians, offer them the right to trade with us and then proceed to build up our trade network in all the coastal area's.

We must concentrate our Legions on one enemy, being greece. So we should send diplomats to the Macedonians and Seleucids, they'll be honoured to aid us in our battle against the Greeks.

The problem called Greece should be removed, now is the time !

Further more I second Tiberius' motion which calls for the need to raise a Third legion, one cannot trust our northern adversaries -the Gauls amongst others.
It is therefore imperative we make sure they won't get tempted in any way.

To quote my honorable college Glaucus, ab cedo ab area

[Avicenna]

Senator Glaucus, what purpose would sending the Third Legion North serve? The Gallic scum will be weakened by fighting the arrogant yet admittedly dangerous rebels, and I propose that we allow them to weaken each other, before we pounce. No, the Third Legion should be used to secure our core provinces, or to expand the glory that is Rome towards the South. Your proposal that we open up trade with the Phoenicans is a sound one, but should be as friendly as relations with the sons of Dido shall get. Let us not forget that the rich Carthaginians are descendants of Dido, who has proclaimed that her people will eventually come into conflict with the noble sons of Aeneas. We shall have to be on guard in the South, and squeeze money out of their flowing coffers if possible. I advise that a diplomat be sent to Sicily to secure trade rights immediately, and "persuade" them to give us some money, in exchange for our assistance against rebellious slaves or even the Greeks if they require it.

My noble colleague from the Netherlands, Senator Dutch_Guy, I disagree. After they are expelled from Italia, the Greeks are no threat to us. Let us then proceed to trade with them, while we build up our forces to the next major threat: the mighty city of Carthage to the West. The stinking Gauls will be held back by Legio III should they choose to attack, which they will do so regardless of our behaviour. They are stinking barbarians, after all. Once they take Ariminium and Arretium, they will be sufficiently weakened for Legio III to take. Let us be swift, and attack them before they have a chance to prepare!

[Tricky Lady]

Fellow members of the Senate of the only true and glorious empire on earth, I gratefully thank you for taking your time to listen to my humble words. I shall try not to pollute these magnificent airs with empty words. Some of you have already turned their attention to the nation in the south of the Italian boot, but I tell you, my dear compatriotes, you are picking the wrong enemy.
Why should we fight an honourable and, surely, an equally sophisticated and intelligent nation such as the Epeirotes? Why should we turn our arms and gold against a potential trade partner? Why should we sacrifice the lives of young Romans? Why turn against a potential friend in the south when we have a far greater threat spying at us in the north? Whom of you dares to say he trusts the smelly barbarians who call themselves "Gauls"? These worthless rats are soiling the fields where our sons should live. And we should not tolerate that. These Gauls -I can barely pronounce this filthy word- should be driven back behind the migthy Alps, back to the dark forests. Back to where they belong. The wealthy lands in the North are Roman, and they should be claimed for the Glorious and Mighty Rome in the shortest time possible.
And what's more: this people can hardly field anything that can be called an army. WE'LL CRUSH THEM!!!

[shifty157]

Please let us consider the tactics of the situation. We can talk all that we please about the Gauls and Pyrrhus but let us refer to our current geo-political knowledge upon the map so kindly provided.

We have two legions raised. One rests outside of Capua. The other outside of Ancona. These men are ready to march at a moment's notice. We also command various garrisons throughout our provinces that if called together and with minimal conscription can form a third legion. We must unite the disparate Italian states under our rule.

I propose immediately that we march our legion outside of Capua and reign in the citizens of Paestum who balk at our rule even as they face the army of Pyrrhus. Taking Paestum will require only a small expenditure of man power and we will reap the rewards of increased tax income and a larger citizenship from which to conscript our troops.

Pyrrhus if I interpret correctly will no doubt prefer to march on the more appealing Corfinium and bring it under his tyranny. Though better situated, the Corfinians are staunch in their honor and their pride and they will not yield to him easily though yield they will under such military weight. Though Corfinium will without doubt fall prey to Pyrrhus, it will take its toll upon his army. The seige will delay him and the assault upon the walls will weaken him.

Upon the conquering of Paestum, we will rest that legion and wait for Pyrrhus to finish his feud with the Corfinians. In the meantime we will send our legion stationed at the gates of Ancona north to bring the other Italian states under our banner and to prevent the Gauls from advancing closer to our own mother Rome. Arminium will be brought low first followed by Arretium if the Gauls have not already taken it.

We must draw forth all of our garrison forces and conscript new units to form a thrid legion at the port of Ancona. In this way, we will have two legions with which to combat Pyrrhus' advance and under good leadership he will be stopped.

These are my musings fellow senators. I believe them sound and well within our capabilities. Give me your faith and I can easily do what is nevessary to expand our borders in all directions.

[Avicenna]

Nay! Pyrrhus' destruction in the Italian countryside will take its toll if he is not stopped immediately. Allow him to take Corfinum and butcher innocent Italians? Never. Our taking of Paestum may bring us tax, yes, but it will not be an available troop centre till many years, as time is needed to tame the less civilised Italian upstarts who reside in Paestum. Sending Pyrrhus' army to Hades will only delay the conquest of slaves by a year at the most, but will secure our holdings and deny him the chance to strengthen his troops and hide behind the walls of Corfinum. Day by day he grows stronger, rallying more troops to his wretched cause: empire building. Personal glory. Tyranny over Italy. And you say we should seek peace with such a monster?

The Gauls, meanwhile, are divided and weak. Once we have secured the southern states of Italia, we should have no problem in taming the barbarians of the north. With their inferior quality of men and tactics, the barbarians should be able to muster up minimal garrisons in their cities, ready for Rome to assume command of. Those smelly barbarians will run from the sound of Roman steel, perfect prey for our green recruits. They do not need to be viewed as a threat in the present moment, let us focus our attention on that Greek from Epirus first.

[Glaucus]

Before we continue to argue, let me point out some matters of fact, surely these cannot be disputed and therefore we can refer to them as a base of evidence.

1. Pyyrhus has a large army to the south. One legion alone will not be able to defeat him. Thus, the obvious conclusion is we need both of our current legions to move south and fight him. I disagree with the proposition that we forget our good Roman virtues and allow this Greek monster to impose his will on fellow Italians. We must seek battle with Pyyrhus now, before it is to late and he has more of a foothold then he already does.

2. Rome, our mother city, lies in the norhern part of our realm. While this is no immediate concern, it should not be ignored either. We should raise a Third Legion to take Arretrium, thus creacing a northern outpost, more taxes to contribute to our coffers, and a buffer zone between us and the unpredictable Gauls. Brother Tiberius, what is the difference if we have our legion sit here in Rome or move north to gain new lands. Either way it protects Rome, but sitting idly is illogical and unneccessary. Going north will help fund more armies, and more buildings for the honorary People of Rome and her Allies.

3. Though the Gods have gifted us with fine land and a fine river to do trade on, we should also remeber that there are other nations out there. They obviously have materials and goods we ourselves do not have, and we would be wise to exploit this. Let us get trade a agreements with Gaul, Carthage, and perhaps Illyria.

These three steps I feel are neccessary in order to place Rome up with the Gods, as protectors and trading partners with our neighbors.

ab cedo ab area
I yield the floor

[Mount Suribachi]

Conscript Fathers, we cannot let the threat posed by those effiminate Greeks to the south go un-punished! I agree with the proposal to send Quintus with a Legion to drive them back into the sea! As senior Consul, it is clealry his duty and his right to lead the army in battle. I see that our armies are lacking in Triarii, I am sure that many of our veterans would jump at the chance to re-enlist and serve under Quintus in order to defend their homes and families.

Perhaps we could also look to ally ourselves with the Ptolemites in the land of Egypt, they too are at war with the Greeks. The enemy of my enemy is surely my friend?

But do we really need to raise a 3rd Legion? Can we afford a 3rd Legion? I would rather see that we stick with our 2 Legions, one to protect Rome from raids by Italian rebels and Barbarians, another to attack Pyrrhus. If we were to make peace with the Gauls, we would be safe from their raiding as they would look for easy pickings elsewhere. I say no to a 3rd Legion! Who will pay for it? Who will man our farms once this 3rd Legion is formed at sat around doing nothing but draining the Treasury?

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

My fellow senators, what is this violent attitude displayed by my esteemed collegae Tiberius ?

Should we not first look closer to home, to the rebellious Latins in the south in the ungrateful cities of Corfinium, Paestum and Rhegium, and the raiding Etruscans in the north in the vengeful cities of Arretium and Armenium, before we strike wildly and unpreparedly at the Greeks ? The Greeks are unwelcome visitors to the peninsula, I must agree, and eventually should and will be persuaded to leave the peninsula and return to their homeland one way or the other, but this is not our first priority.

Should we neglect our rebellious cousins and strike wildly at the Greeks ? Where will the troops come from, where shall the money come from to buy the weapons and armor ? Will we rely on the Gods to shower silver on us from the clouds to pay for all this ? When has rashness ever been the Roman policy ? Is this the diplomacy of a civilized people ? We have subjugated our neighbour city states Capua and Ancona, but only in self-defense and righteous retaliation, and have the Gods not smiled at us ? Has Mars not given us victory in battle ? I suspect Jupiter would avert his eyes from a people that strike out blindly in anger and our good fortune might flee.

So I say, take heed ! Let us avert the wrath of heaven and first strengthen our position by taking firm control of our rebelious neighbours, forming a strong army and making treaties and alliances with other nations. Let us offer peace to Pyrrhus and occupy our rebellious cities first. If Pyrrhus dares to trouble us then we will be justified in casting the Greeks out of Italy and powerful enough to do it !

I say we immediately gather all available troops and march south, occupying the cities of Corfinium, and next Paestum, before Pyrrhus can sense a weakness. We should also send an emmissary to Pyrrhus to ask for a ceasefire. Then we should leave a praetorian legion of troops in place to make sure that cunning warlord Pyrrhus does not suprise us while we look to the north. With luck Pyrrhus will strike westward instead at Rhegium and become entangled with the powerful Carthegians that live in Sicily. Meanwhile we should raise another praetorian legion and occupy the Etruscan cities of Armenium and Arretium. If the Greeks have still not bothered our cities we should raise yet a third praetorian legion to guard our northern borders against a suprise attack from the barbarians to our north while we march the first and second legion to our southern borders and send an ultimatum to Pyrrhus. Either he surrenders his colonies in Southern Italy or we will be forced to declare war. Strike when we are ready I say !

I second the motion to raise Quintus to the esteemed and elevated position of Consul, and to to ask him to lead our first and second legion to victory over the Latin rebels, and eventually, the Greeks. I also suggest the gifted and skilled Publius Laevnius to lead our third legion against the Etruscans. Meanwhile I suggest sending a diplomat east and a second one to the west to seek allies against Greece and trading partners.