Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations II

[econ21]

[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS: It seems that we have no shortage of enemies. If we are in need of generals, I stand ready to serve against any or all of them!

Long have I pondered on the fate of Illyria. They were useful potential allies against the Greeks and Macedonians. But geography dictates that sooner or later, they must fall under the influence of our rising Republic. It seems they have chosen sooner rather than later.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Those treacherous Illyrians. Those stinking, treacherous, barbarians! Roman blood has been spilt in order to save their pathetic cities. Vibius Pleminius gave his life for their cause. And this is how they repay us!

Senators, death is too kind for these stinking dogs. We should enslave their capital city and turn it into a troop center for us!

- What was that? Not now, Archimedes, I'm at the Senate! No- no more arguments! I don't care what you have to say about this- shut UP, you Greek fool!

Excuse me Senators, I must be off...

*Marcellus Aemilius storms out of the Senate building, wishing damnation upon all teachers*

[Ignoramus]

Senators, this treacherous behaviour of Illyria is disgraceful! I strongly urge that no mercy be shown to these barbarians!

I, Secundus Salvidienus, ask to be given control of a small force to attack an enemy of the Roman people.

[Braden]

I call for a small Legion to be raised in order to utterly decimate the Illyrians and occupation of there remaining lands.

[Dutch_guy]

Are we able to raise such a legion without putting too much a strain on our economy ?

With regard to that question, I'd like to know how much our war chest currently contains, if the current consul would be kind enough to let the senate know.

[Avicenna]

Senators of Rome, I apologise for my recent absence, which was due to investigating certain shady suspects in far-away lands... but let us return to important matters.

I must say, I am not shocked at the behaviour of the Macedonians or the Illyrians. After all, the Macedonians show their worth when they failed to attack us when we took land from the Achaeans! The Illyrians, former 'allies', were simply begging for money in their time of need. This time is over, and being barbarian scum and oppurtunists, see it as the perfect time to strike when our Legions are busy contending with Macedonian and Achaean armies.

Now, in light of our current shortage of generals, I believe that in increase in our Legion sizes is a rational path to undertake, so that we may not have as much difficulty in defending Roman ways and glory in the world.

I cede the floor.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

Honoured fathers,

Under instruction of our first consul Tiberius Coruncanius, the Legio I Italia Victrix is continuing its pogrom against the Illyrians. With the recent capture of the second Illyrian city, the walled capital of Segestica, and the defeat of their king, Boria the Bloody-Handed, the Illyrians are down to one unwalled coastal settlement, Salona, and about a legion worth of troops. They even begged me for a ceasefire, but I leave the diplomacy in the hands of our supreme commander. Once that settlement is taken we will have our west flank secured in Greece and we will be in a better position to reinforce our troops by ship.
The gods have seen it fit to punish the deplorable behaviour of the Illyrian savages by the death of their king ! Truly the gods smile down upon our nation !

Lucius Aemilius, Legate of the Legio I Italia Victrix
Winter 261 BC, Segestica

[flyd]

Senators, Rome has been disgraced! Oh, this is a dark day. The darkest day, ever! Oh, if only I had seen it coming. Oh, why did the gods allow this to happen!?

I should offer an explanation. Over at Massilia ford, the Gauls made an attack with an army about 1300 strong. Publius Laevinus, Legatus Legionis, Princeps Senatus, commander of a Roman Legion, commander of 721 brave Romans and allies, fighting barbarians, defending the most defensible position ever concieved, lost, and fled the field of battle to Massilia!

But that, Senators, is not the worst thing you will hear today. Prepare yourselves to hear the next thing! This:



I have but one season left in office, it will be up to the next Consul, and up to the Senate, to recover our eagle.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Has Laevinius lost his mind? He should be stripped of his titles of Princeps Senatus as well as Legate and be sent off to govern Sardinia! This man is a disgrace to all good Romans!

Senators, I still have a year of *sigh* schooling, and only then I will be a Tribune but I have been taught by the best! Let me lead the expedition to recover our glorious Eagle!

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

The temple of Janus shall not be closed untill Roman honour is avenged !

[econ21]

[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: The barbarians have broken through the Massila ford. Do they now besiege Massila? Who is the nearest member of the Lower House able to ride to meet them? Publius Laevinus is evidently unsuited for battle and henceforth must be regarded as a member of the Upper House. Perhaps Legate Aemilius can be diverted from the war in Illyria?

I know the war against Macedon is foremost in the First Consul's mind, but we have large garrisons in Italy - now would seem to be the time to use them. Which legion was guarding the ford? We must recover the Eagle from Gergovia at the first opportunity! This dishonour must be swiftly excised.

[Dooz]

Fellow Romans! I, Cornelius Saturninus stand before you, a true Roman, taken in by Quintus Naevius because of my past and my obviously bright future. I have served as a Tribune for over 4 years in the glorious Roman army and now the time has come to take up the sword and shield once more. I shall regain our eagle and restore our pride, there is no other man for the job. Marcus Aemilius is but a child, still in school! Learning the things I've experienced first hand in my time in the military. A lost eagle is no matter for an inexperienced son of Rome, oh no it is much too important to risk in such a way. With the permission of the Senate, I shall travel to Gergovia with an assigned Legion and take back what should never have been lost by the careless Publius Laevinus, and punish the filthy barbarians who dare test the might of Rome. Do not make another mistake in sending the wrong person, I beseech you. Cornelius Saturninus awaits your judgement, as does the fate of Rome.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well said Senator Saturninus, but please keep in mind that the Aemilius family also lost honor. By the gods, you can't even get my first name right! My mad brother, Manius was with Laevinius that fateful day. When it was clear that Laevinius was faltering, he could have taken up command, but continued to hide from the world. As a result my house is disgraced.

Senators, my family is dishonored, along with Laevinius' former legion. A perfect fit, no? Besides, I am ready. I must fight sometime, and Verginius will agree that barbarians are excellent practice. Send me to reclaim the lost Eagle.

[Dooz]

OOC: I got the name from the FAQ thread, silly me didn't see it in your sig.

Young Marcus, looking for respect when respect is not yet due. When you are finished with your schooling and are a bit older you may be called by your full name, Marcellus, but by the gods you are still young and I as an elder may refer to you as Marcus if I see fit. I sympathize with your mad family and lost honor, but the Republic cannot make the same mistake twice in sending you to correct the wrongs of your bretheren. Madness runs through your blood, wether you know it yet or not. The glory of Rome comes before your personal honor and it is your duty as a Roman to realize it, and mine to defend it. It is clear to me what must be done. I trust the good senators of this assembly will make the right choice. I suggest young Marcus to come along as Tribune upon his graduation. Perhaps he will learn a thing or two and will have the opportunity to prove himself and restore his family's honor.

[Dutch_guy]

Senators,

I would not have thought to ever see the day a standard was lost in battle, and especially not facing the Gauls. Mere barbarians !
Publius Laevinus has disgraced his family and his people, and we all know that the people do not take a loss lightly!

I for one, do not wish for Publius Laevinus to lead another battle, as another loss could very well be devastating - as we need every legion we currently have !

Naturally Gergovia must be our next target, getting our standard back is - I hope - our top priority now.

Further more I propose we exterminate Gergovia, as a sign to Gaul - and the rest of the world - that taking one of our eagles is not taken lightly !

Your servant, Flavius Pacuvius.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

Cornelius Saturninus,

I am greatly upset by your words. What brings it into your mind to claim about my noble family that Madness runs through your blood ? You have nerve to slander the proud Aemilia like this. I know my son Manius Aemilius is rumoured to be a bit strange and we don't see eye to eye, but he has been doing his duty for Rome as a dutiful son.

I demand an apology, or my family will not forget this insult to our forefathers.

While I applaud your sentiments recovering the lost eagle, I see no need for you to dismiss the same noble sentiments in others, like Marcellus Aemilius.

I am worried about the situation at Massilia, and the fate of Publius Laevinus and my son. I would like to come to their aid, but the Legio I Italia Victrix is perhaps not the closest force and likely needed more on our eastern front. If the first consul can spare us, I volunteer to go to their aid, as I would be honoured to extinguish this disgrace on Roman honour and I still worry about the Iberians.

I feel sorry for Publius Laevinius in his disgrace. He has won several great victories against the Gauls in the past, but the Gods evidently saw it fit to punish him for some unknown folly. I would like to see one of his familiy, like Decius Laevinus, take to the field to restore his familiy's honour.

Nevertheless, I say that Publius Laevinius must relinquish the title of Future Princeps Senatus, as it would not be seemly to have this noble body led by one so obviously disgraced. It should be handed to the one highest in rank and seniority in this house.

I also second Flavius Pacuvius's suggestion that Gergovia should be razed to the ground and its population exterminated. The Gauls need an example to show that they belong on their knees before Romans.

[TinCow]

An Eagle? AN EAGLE?!

I have spent over half my life advocating against the Gauls, campaigning against the Gauls, and bathing my hands in Gallic blood. During this time they achieved not a single victory over Roman arms and we brought them the gifts of fire and sword. Yet I depart the Gallic frontier for a mere five years and they have broken our border, defeated a Legion and taken an Eagle! I swear I will not rest until all Gallic men, women and children are dead and rotting!

I request permanent reassignment to the Gallic frontier. Nay, I demand reassignment. Perhaps it is improper to say so, but I refuse to fight against the Greeks or Macedonians any more. Give my command to another, for I cannot, I will not, lead an army into battle against a civilized nation so long as the Gauls survive. I am not the young man I once was, but I swear before Jupiter Optimus Maximus that I shall see a world without Gauls before I take my final breath.

[Dutch_guy]

I, Flavius Pacuvius, would glady assist Augustus Verginius on the field of battle against the Gauls.

I could use the experience.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Madness runs through your blood, wether you know it yet or not.

How dare you, sir? You besmirch my family's honor and have the gall to say that I am young and without manners? It is clear that you were not taught properly, Saturninus. I will not serve as Tribune with you for this insult, and I echo my father's sentiments (for once) that an apology must be given.

That said, Senator Verginius speaks wisdom. He is more fit to command any legion that fights Gauls than any of us, for his hatred of them inspires the troops around him. It would be an honor to serve as Tribune under him.

[Dooz]

To the Aemilius family, I offer my apologies. You must understand that I have not lived a privelaged life around the academies and scriptoriums. I have lived mine on the campaign trail and perhaps have not accumulated the best of manners or restraint of tongue. I was enraged by the loss of the eagle and a member of your family had a hand in it, that is true. The reason I made my comment was because I believe madness must be something that runs in the family. Do believe me good senators of Rome, I had only the best intentions of our great republic in mind and did not want another mishap. I leave it to the senators to decide my fate.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

Honour is satisfied

[Dooz]

My condolences Lucius Aemilius on the loss of Marcus. As I feared, his inexperience lead to his demise. He truly fought and lead bravely, may the Gods recieve him with honor. I wish you luck in your defense of Segestica against the petty Thracians.

*OOC edit*
Just took a look at the save-game and realize there is a Marcellus Aemilius in Rome, and if that's GeneralHankerchief, then the FAQ should be updated becuase it says he's Marcus Aemilius, who is now dead. I had those two confused.

[econ21]

SENATE SPEAKER: Now that we have received the First Consul's final report, I declare this session of Senate open.

There will be a three day period of debate for candidates for First Consul to come forward and for motions to be proposed. This will expire on Wednesday at 6pm UK time. There will then be a 24 period for voting.

I remind Senators that candidates for First Consul should post manifestoes in this thread. It would be desirable if candidates could do this early this session, so that the manifestoes can be debated and legislation can be made with an eye to the likely intentions of the executive.

As for motions, please state explicitly "I propose motion 9.1 etc" or "I second motion 9.1". Recall, a motion needs two seconders to be put to a vote. Where there are contradictions between motions, the earlier motion (including motions proposed earlier this session) takes precedence unless the later motion says "This motion A [i]invalidates[/b] motion A".

[Dutch_guy]

This has been put forward by myself and by others already, but it should be a number one priority for the next first consul


Motion 9.1
I propose that the next first consul immediatly sends forth an army to retrieve our stolen eagle, in Gergovia. Which is then extermintated following the conquest of that city. Who leads the army to Gergovia is up to the consul


yours, Flavius Pacuvius

[Dooz]

I second Motion 9.1. This is indeed the first issue to be dealt with.

[Tricky Lady]

It is evident that retrieving the lost Eagle should be the highest priority for the next Consul.

I second motion 9.1 too.

Who is closest to Massilia to replace Publius Laevinius as fast as possible?

[GeneralHankerchief]

All of you do realize that if the Iberians stay put we will be at war with yet another large faction, not to mention the fact that we will be fighting a ford battle trying to cross it. While I agree that Gergovia must be razed it might be better if we hesitated. Perhaps enough time to reinforce the legion and get an experienced commander at the helm? The Greek Theater is wrapping up. We can recall a commander closer to home now.

Motion 9.2: Before making any attempt to recover the Eagle at Gergovia, Legio III (Laevinius' former legion) is to be reinforced to full strength and commanded by Augustus Verginius, with Marcellus Aemilius as Tribune.

Also, in terms of the Consul Elections, Legate Publius Pansa has proved himself many times over in the Greek Theater. I would like to see him run.

[x-dANGEr]

Publius Pansa steps into the Senate floor after a long journey of bloodshed; to non Romans of course.

"People, reason yourselves. Publius Laevinus hadn't yet his part of the say. I suspect those filthy Germans had a hand in it.. And so, I ask that an investigation is started, to figure out the shades of that dark hour of the battle."

[flyd]

Now, wait a minute. Why should Gergovia be exterminated. What part did the civilians have in the loss of the eagle? The loss of the eagle was caused in part by the incompetence on our own side, and in part by luck on the side of the gallic army, but the average gallic peasant had little to do with it. If you want blood, then I suggest you demand the head of Drustan of Decetia, who was the gallic commander at the battle, and who took the eagle to Gergovia instead of returning it to us. I propose, then, the following:

Motion 9.3: This house charges the Consul with the task of recovering the eagle as quickly as possible, and with the task of killing Drustan of Decetia by any means available. However, this motion forbids the extermination of any civilian population, including Gergovia, and therefore invalidates Motion 9.1.

I'm sure that whoever is elected Consul will do his best to recover the eagle, although we may argue about the specifics of it. What I am mainly worried about is how the next Consul will address all the threats to the Republic.

[econ21]

[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: The First Consul speaks wisely - exterminating a city will not excise the shame that lies on our side.

I also think the First Consul is right to focus on the threats to the republic. In our angst over the loss of the eagle, we must not forget the present danger posed by the Thracians declaring war, besieging one of our cities and marching large armies to attack us. With most of our armies in Greece and Macedon, we are not well placed to defend against the Thracian invasion and to rescue the legion.

I ask the Senate to look at the situation with cool heads. Recall that presently, the Iberians guard the first Massilia ford. To rescue the eagle by land will likely require us to attack them. The First Consul has said that the Iberian presence at the ford is a provocation and I concurr. But I ask you, should we not resist the provocation at this time? The Thracians have just opened a new war with us - is now the right time to start a war with the Iberians?

Recall, it was Publius Laevinus who identified Massila as the most defensible western border of our lands. Whatever shame the man has brought to the Senate does not negate this fine insight. We held back First Consul Verginius from eliminating Gaul in order to maintain a buffer between us and Iberia, so as to avoid a premature war with that power. Should we now forget the ford and the idea of a buffer state in our haste to recover the eagle? Iberia can wait - the Thracians will not.

It is true, we must recover the eagle. But I am reluctant to see the task embroiling us in a seventh simultaneous war. Fortunately, there is a solution to this conundrum. The First Consul has endowed us with a large fleet of ships. If the Iberians continue to block the first Massila ford, I propose that we use our fleet to circumvent their force and rescue the eagle without having to engage their armies.

Therefore, I propose:

Motion 9.4: This house instructs the First Consul to avoid attacking Iberia in the quest to rescue the eagle. If necessary, the fleet is to be used to bypass any obstructing Iberian army. If avoiding war with Iberia delays the return of the eagle, this motion takes precedence over motions 9.1 and 9.3.

It is true, we would be within our rights to attack Iberia. If, as I believe, the Massila ford lies in our lands, the First Consul is authorised by a constitutional ammendment to declare war on Iberia for occupying it. My motion does not seek to remove that right. However, it does express the view that exercising that right at the present moment would not be prudent - no matter how deeply felt the dishonour of losing an eagle.