Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations II

[Dooz]

{Galerius Vatinius}

Phoo! You Aemilii are all the same. Servius, you show your brightness more and more with every opening of your mouth. Indeed, I who call for the extermination of Gauls and Greeks and all the other enemies of Rome am secretly a sympathizer for all their causes! Yes, you've got it! And Marcellus, let it be known that I have won a victory without any standard in sight! I sent a courier with the battle report, you should go have a look in the records. I suppose, in your words, I am the better man?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I meant against a proper enemy force, instead of just a rabble of bandits. For I too, have destroyed a group of them hanging around near Rome. I just didn't glorify it with a special report as did you.

[flyd]

I'm starting to get a headache from all this noisy bickering. Just who let all these children into the Senate, I wonder.

[Dooz]

{Galerius Vatinius}

A battle report is standard order Marcellus. If you do not have the habit of following orders, you may not have much of a military career ahead. Senator Coruncanius, us "children" are the future of this Republic, do not forget. You were once a child were you not? Surely you can sympathize with flustering emotions and strong words?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I will say one thing and then retire.

A report for especially epic battles is standard order. A full report detailing how you and two Italian units slaughtered a group of bandits is unnecessary. Next time you could just report the result to my father.

[Dooz]

{Galerius Vatinius}

It was your father who asked for the report. If you wish to argue his policies, do so without trying to undermine my achievements.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

All senate members are allowed to post battle reports of all battles, great or small. How will our young soldiers learn about our current enemies otherwise ? While I care not for the blashphemous Galerius Vatinius, he fought that battle quite well and I hope my sons study his tactics and stay uncontaminated by his low morals.

[Dooz]

{Galerius Vatinius}

Indeed, study my tactics young senators! Haha, come on now, let's have a drink to celebrate our recent victories shall we? It's on me!

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

Rebellious Greeks have found a new way to strike at their Roman 'opressor'. Crowds are jeering in Corinth when governor Laevinius passes :

Decius is a bastard ! Decius is a bastard !

They say you take after your father, you sure have Manius's good looks !

[econ21]

The Senate is filled with gossiping comparisons:







"But he does take after his supposed father in his traits..."

"And in his hairline..."

"And his eyebrows"

[TinCow]

Such a public disgrace is an abomination to Rome! According to the laws and customs of the Republic, Publis Laevinus should slay Marcus with his own hands and expel his wife from his home. To do any less is to prove himself a coward and a pimp, though I doubt if this could possibly disgrace him any more than he already is. Perhaps he would prefer to be referred to as Publius the Cuckold rather than Publius the Gaul.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

Consript fathers,

I bring you an update of my reign.

Unfinished Interim Report part I
Unfinished Interim Report part II

To summarize the important events :
1. The kingdom of Macedon is practically defeated.
2. The kingdom of Numidia, after a decades long war with the Republic of Carthage, is destroyed.

Gaul has been invaded by our forces. Legate Augustus Verginius and his Legio II Sabina Quintia are laying siege to Gergovia, where the stolen legionary eagle is hidden. The eagle taker Drustan of Decetia is holding the town against him. Tribune Marcellus Aemilius and the Legio III Sicilia Aemilia are laying siege to the Gaul capital of Comata, where the Gaul king Segovax the Cunning resides. The remainder of our troops takes up position on the bridge.


I am leery of attacking Gergovia, as the Gaul Allies, the Iberians, will surely come to their aid, and this will undoubtably mean war with them. I have decided to attack Comata, but not Gergovia this season. This in accordance with :

Motion #9.13: The blocking Iberian army should be threatened with our own forces – our intent made clear over a season. If they choose to withdraw, the motion permits the moving past the force to engage the Gauls, if they do not, the Motion authorises immediate war against the Iberians.

I interpret this motion to apply to the current situation as well, and that it overrules motion 9.8. I know not all members of the senate will agree with me on this, and so I inform you beforehand. If the Iberians have not retreated by next season we will attack anyhow.

Legate Lucius Aemilius, first consul.

[econ21]

[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: First Consul, I would also be cautious about risking an unnecessary war with Iberia, but perhaps you forget that Legate Verginius is a night fighter? As such, he could assault Gergovia without the adjacent Iberian army being involved. There would be no automatic outbreak of war with Iberia. If we merely besiege Gergovia, I fear a Gallic sally would precipitate war.

On another matter, Carthage has been strangely passive towards us since she was thrown out of Sicily and the surrounding islands. I wonder if, with her conquest of Numidia, she will now adopt a more aggressive stance? If we have not already done so, it might be wise to insure Sicily is protected by a Praetorian army and spies are posted near Carthage or other likely staging points for an naval expedition. ....Forgive me, Senators, having just read the First Consul's report, I realise that this matter is well in hand.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

That is an excellent suggestion, and I will ask my battle staff if it is feasible when they return from interviewing our scouts.

[econ21]

[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Thank you, First Consul. I am endeavouring to make myself less expendable.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Thank you, First Consul. I am endeavouring to make myself less expendable.

[Dooz]

{Galerius Vatinius}

Consul Aemilius, I ask you to reconsider committing an entire Praetorian legion to Sicily in the off chance that Carthage may invade. We are in desperate need of all the manpower we can get in our currently active theatres of war are we not? I suggest instead an auxilia army, consisting mainly of local troops and mercenaries as a deferring force should an invasion take place. They may hold off a major offensive until a proper legion arrives.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

With the new legion in place in Delmatia (almost), we are within the minimum defense requirements, altough another legion in Cispine Gaul would be nice. I can hardly neglect our other provinces, especially with such a dangerous neighbour close by.
With the heavy losses incurred so far, we are indeed short of men, and the recruitement program has thus been accelerated (and mercenaries are expensive !). I intend to phase out the mercenary troops from Greece to the frontline, by replacing them with cheap italian auxilia. This will keep up a steady supply of troops for our Eastern fronts.
The Western front will hopefully remain quiet, but if we do get into a major war there, a massive shift in troop production to the West is inevitable.
Another problem is supply to Transpine Gaul. I have been shipping troops by ship, but we need to build more ships so we have a third fleet. I am considering building light transports in the Adriatic, so I can send more warships west and still keep up supply.
With the new provincial barracks it should be possible to fill all demands and create 'reserve' legions.
Note that a legion stationed in a fort will also reduce rebel and bandit activity in the region.

What we really want is a highway of paved roads all the way through Italy, Greece and the Alps, but this is hideously expensive (like most things in RTR). My priorities at the moment are, basic roads, farmland, unrest superession in our major cities, and upgrading buildings to our culture.
An example, a new goverment building in Thessalonica (which would really help with the unrest) would be 12.000 gold pieces. With all the improvements I've build and new conquests our income has risen to ca. 22.000 gold pieces. With recruiting and other expenses I am lucky if I can buy one such building.

I am building an aquaduct in Rome and public bathouses in several major cities like Syracuse. These cities should make us tremendously rich, but almost all have their taxes set to low due to unrest. Rome itself is a disgrace really, we must concentrate on developing it.

[Lucjan]

Servius Aemilius - Perhaps a diplomatic trip to Carthage should be considered before this paranoia over Numidia's demise turns into the unnecessary deployment of legions and auxilia to Sicily? Carthage seems to be the only of Rome's enemies who has been capable of accepting defeat, having lost Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica, they have since stayed far from any aggressive action towards Rome. Pursueing trading rights and an alliance with these people could most certainly be to our benefit, and do not forget that Carthage has lost its former colonies in Iberia to the native tribes. Perhaps, with a little Roman encouragement and monetary backing, Carthage could be persuaded to re-engage itself in an active conflict with the Iberians. Food for thought senators...food for thought.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I find myself agreeing with Senator Vatinius for once. While it was necessary to activate Legio V from Sicily things have now changed. Something must be done about our African friends, that is certain.

I believe that the preferred course of action is diplomacy, Senators. Carthage has consolidated and taken over the whole of Africa. They are ready to turn their wrath toward another target- most likely us or Iberia. I do not think that Rome is prepared to fight a Second Punic War.

Really Senators, our diplomatic situation is abominable. We are either at war or have bad relations with every single faction on our border. Surely it would not hurt to have one friend, no?

Conscript fathers, the Republic is again at a crossroads. We face impending war with two powerful factions: Iberia and Carthage. Surely we cannot afford to fight both, as well as continue operations against Gaul, Hellas, and Thrace. No, for once diplomacy must win out. We must come to an agreement with Carthage. Come the interim session I shall propose due legislation.

[flyd]

A proposal of an alliance with Carthage? Never have I heard such a foolish thing! The Carthaginians would attack us at first opportunity. An offer of alliance will appear as a sign of weakness, a sign that we are unable to pursue further war with them. In addition to that, if they see few troops stationed in Sicily, it will be an invitation.

To ensure that Carthage will attack Iberia rather than Sicily, we must appear stronger than the Iberians. For that reason, come mid-term, I will propose a small raid on Africa and the sacking of one Carthaginian city.

[Dooz]

{Galerius Vatinius}

The Aemilii have a point indeed. I support a ceasefire with Carthage, even possibly an alliance. Trade and peace with them would certainly be to our benefit. They may be just the tool to help keep the Iberians in check, otherwise we may be facing a major war with them in the very near future, considering we are about to take the bordering Gallic towns.

Senator Coruncanius, your proposal is that of a senseless warmonger. You must know when to make war and when to make peace and with whom. We do not have the resources to wage war with Carthage. What little we have is much better spent in our eastern frontier in the campaign around the Danube.

[Lucjan]

Forgive my brashness Senator Coruncanius, but are you delusional? I think perhaps the loss of your son has made you reckless and ill inclined to the preservation of Rome as an honorable state. Seek your blood with Macedon, not Carthage. Carthage, as things stand, is the strongest potential ally for Rome against the rest of a barbarian world..I will never support the undue sacking of a Carthaginian city, particularly after we have spent DECADES at peace with them. For what would you incite such a lengthy peace to old violence? This is an irrational course of action you propose.

And as for Vatinius and my uncle Marcellus...if Sicily is to be garrisoned I see no reason why the Sicilian legion cannot be returned after it's current campaign ends. A new legion can be raised if necessary to take up where they left off. But if the concern of a powerful Carthage must be defensively adressed, why replace a veteran legion of those lands with raw, green recruits?

[Lucjan]

Just so as to see that my position is not misunderstood, I do believe Sicily, as our southernmost border and the crutch of trade between the eastern and western mediterranean, requires more than the simple city garrisons to remain a safe section of the republic. But I feel the best course of action for its defense would be to simply return the Legio Sicilia to Sicily at the end of its campaign.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sacking one Carthaginian city is the surest way to get tangled into a full-scale war with them, Senator Coruncanius. Look at the logic from a Carthaginian perspective:

You're fresh off of unifying West Africa and feel like you're prepared to take on mightier enemies. Iberia and your former lands are a hop across the Strait of Gilbralter away. Meanwhile, the mighty Romans have just taken over the entire Balkan Peninsula and their feared navy stands between you and your former islands. The choice is a no-brainer.

But wait, something happens. A small Roman force comes and has the nerve to siege one of your cities! You haven't done anything to anger them. And if this is the best they have, surely Rome must have been weakened by their two decades of war. So you go after Rome instead.

~~~~
While this tactic worked well with Appolonia, you forget that the Mediterranean is no Adriatic. Stranding a commander in Carthaginian homelands with a small force is something I'd only give to... well... Laevinius.

[flyd]

I am not proposing an Apollonia-like expendition. No one will be stranded anywhere. I am proposing a raid. Raid, sack, and abandon. Less than one season should actually be spent on land in Africa. It would work against unwalled cities, even walled ones if a siege engineer was constructed and ballistae built. It would be a show of Roman power, that even though we're engaged in major far away wars, we can still sack a city in Africa just because we feel like it. They would not dare to actually attack us.

And no, we have not been at peace with Carthage for "decades". The last violent action with Carthage occured during the summer of 263.

Keep also in mind that the war in the east is winding down as we plan not to advance past the Danube.

[Dooz]

{Galerius Vatiniuis}

I don't think any such brash action against Carthage is necessary at this time, unless the end-result of such a maneuver is the conquest of all of their lands in Northern Africa. I believe there are two possible scenarios for us at the moment. Seek a peace with Carthage, give incentive for them to take on the Iberians and give us a little breathing room in the west. Or achieve our goals in the east, setting up a border across the Danube, then focus all our attention to Africa and take our the Carthaginians once and for all. I personally prefer the former, but might be persuaded to see it Senator Coruncanius' way, if properly compensated... perhaps leading the said expedition?

[Lucjan]

Who is this "we" senator Coruncanius? Roman legions have already crossed the Danube in the action of taking Ratiari, against my suggestions and attempts at dilluting some of this false bravado of invincibility by some of our tribunes. Need I remind you that two legions have been completely decimated very recently. And your idea of the war winding down somehow permits it reasonable and logical to start it right back up somewhere else, against a fully confident and experienced enemy, coming from a serious victory with the destruction of Numidia. This is nonsense.

And you senator Vatinius, I knew there had to be some alternate reasoning behind your sudden moderation. You would support peace only unless offered the chance to lead roman men to their deaths. Marcellus may have been quick to find your sudden change of heart appealing, but do not think that I did not know better.

So many warmongers among the senate these days. There is absolutely no need for a war with Carthage if an alliance can be forged. To think otherwise is bloodlust and lunacy.

[flyd]

We are already at war, Senator Aemilius, I propose to start nothing. In fact, I voted to start that war before you were born! I merely propose to remind the Carthagnians of the fact that we are at war. For so long they have conducted a "war" with Rome without even getting so much as a bloody nose. I find that this shows weakness on our part, and I will not stand for it!

As for who should lead it, I do not care. I will not propose any legislation specifying a commander. If you want to suck up, go find the First Consul.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Carthage poses no threat to us whatsoever if we send our fleet to guard the waters of Sicily. Much has changed since the last major period of action between the two of us. They would not risk an amphibious assault when the stakes are an entire army.

No, the proper action in this case is diplomacy. Some may consider it un-Roman, but fellow Senators, it's logical. We make peace with Carthage (but make sure to keep that fleet guarding Sicily), and immediately Iberia is weakened. First, they are now under attack from both sides of the Mediterranean. Secondly, we get funding for the war against them! I cannot see how a display of force against the Punics would help anything.