Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations II

[GeneralHankerchief]

Consul Aemilius, would you have preferred to keep the settlements in the hands of the Gauls, who have and would continue to attack us?

As to Consul Virginius' victories, I congratulate him, they are well-deserved. We have significantly filled the treasury- let us invest the money. If the Iberians are to attack us, let them. They can have the settlements west of Massilia. They can then futiley waste their men trying to take Massilia itself. For this I second Motion 6.8.

[Glaucus]

I feel overwhelmed with joy that that the Germans like us. I can hardly contain my happiness. I suggest we return the islands and Sicily to the Cartheginians in the hope that they will like us too. While we are at it, why don't we give back the Greek colonies ? Perhaps the Greeks will like us too then ?

Your sarcasm betrays you. We are not at war with Germania, last time I checked. Why should we not want to improve our standing with them. If we hadn't been so kind to them, they WOULD be attacking Roma now. Thanks to the First Consul's good judgment, we now have a very easily defended border and a neighbor who sees us as the good side of sastisfactory. If we were not at war with Greece and Carthage, then yes we should be kind to them, but we are at war. You cannot compare Carthage and Germania, one nation we are at war with, the other we are not.

As for Germania being calm, I stand by what I said. They have not expanded at all in the enitre history of the Republic. Check this refernece I have found in the senate library: Library Reference

Germania has reamined within it's boundaries, and as far as I know, you have never met a German, so how in all of Pluto's Hell should you know how violent a German is or isn't? The facts are here, Germania IS a peaceful nation.

[TinCow]

Senators, where is your honor?

I embark on a great campaign against or oldest enemy. At great risk to my own life, I have destroyed their ability to make war against us. I have done everything in my power to ensure that Rome is protected first and foremost. I see an opportunity to avoid future danger and so, according to the laws of this body, I have opened debate on the issue in the proper manner and with reasoned argument.

Yet for all of this, I receive hatred, spite and impeachment! Where were the calls for impeachment when Quintus declared war on Carthage without Senatorial approval? Who have I declared war on without approval? Is a man not allowed to request a debate on an issue which he believes in?

For shame Senators! You are a disgrace to this body and to the very notion of a Republic!

I shall now specifically address the ridiculous accusations that have been leveled against me.

Regarding the territories given to Germania. It is a total fallacy of thought that I would ever have handed them over freely without spending maximum efforts in an attempt to secure both an alliance and monetary tribute for Rome. Sextus Antio discussed the issue twice with both the Thracian and the Germans. Neither was willing to give either a formal alliance or any kind of monetary compensation for the territories. Wisely, they recognized the total worthlessness of these territories and did not wish to pay for them.

At this point, I was confronted with a situation. Rome could not receive anything of value for these provinces, regardless of how much we may have wished to. I then saw two choices: leave the territories as they were and let the Gauls retake them, or gift them away to a non-hostile nation. I chose to weaken our enemy rather than give them any chance of recovery. The very idea that I have endangered the Republic by ensuring that our enemy cannot benefit from their lost territories is preposterous. The Germans are more dangerous? To who? If the Germans are so much more deadly than the Gauls, why has not a single Senator raised his voice in favor of war with Germania before now? Why was I elected to ravage Gaul when Germania was apparently our greatest danger? What insanity causes these comments?

The very idea that we even controlled these settlements to begin with is laughable. You act as if giving them away was no different than giving away Rome herself! This body itself elected me to sack Gallic lands, not to conquer them! Our desire was never to control them and it is only by there mere technical restraints of our warfare system that they even entered into our possession! We have no desire to keep these territories nor any claim to them, yet my actions in ensuring that our blood enemies do not use them becomes the greatest crime this Senate has witnessed?

I swear these accusations are a stain upon my honor that I shall not let stand. I have always been loyal to Rome. I have always been loyal to the Republic. My very presence here, having conquered and held not a single province, having done exactly what I said I would, having completed the tasks you elected me to do, is testament to the fact that I have followed the Senate's will to the letter! If you will consult my reports, you will note that one of the first actions I took as Consul was to attempt an alliance with the Iberians in accordance with Motion 3.10.

First and foremost my actions have always been for the good of the Republic and the prosperity of all Roman citizens. I stand behind every action I took and every word that I wrote.

The accusations of some, particularly Tiberius Coruncanius and Lucius Aemilius, men I have served with and men whom I considered good friends, have wounded me greatly. I am not a coward though and woe be to any who believes they can unjustly stain my honor and not suffer the consequences! I say here and now, any man, ANY MAN, who continues to accuse me of disloyalty to the Republic or violations of Senatorial law, will meet me in blood duel before the day is done. I will not live one day longer in the presence of such lies! You will withdraw your accusations or one of us will lie dead!

[flyd]

I find this highly inappropriate, Senator. This is a place of civilized discussion. You need to be able to take criticism without resorting to violent threats.

[SwordsMaster]

I just want to let know my fellow senators that I will support motions 6.3 and 6.5. I believe the industrialisation of our homeland is more important to mantain our fighting edge than rapid expansion.

I would like to bring the senators' attention to the fact that this is a discussion chamber. This is NOT a battlefield. All opinions shall be respected under law of the Republic, and no senators will engage in duel unless the senate approves such a thing.

[econ21]

[QUINTUS]: I must agree with Senator Tiberius Coruncanius, this debate is becoming overheated. The First Consul has not acted dishonourably or illegally. Indeed, I believe he has delivered the great raid on Gaul that he was elected to perform rather more efficiently and quickly than one might reasonably expect. I hope no additional Senators second motion 6.9 so that the situation can be calmed and we can consider the interests of the Republic with cool heads.

I would, however, like to correct the accusation made in the heat of the moment that I brought the Republic into war with Carthage without Senate authorisation. Looking at the records of the Senate deliberations, I observe that I proposed the following motion:

Emergency Motion #5 "This House instructs the First Consul to begin the conquest of Sicily. It gives advance authorisation for a declaration of war against Carthage to be made when the First Consul judges the time right."

My memory fails me, but I presume the motion was passed, otherwise I would have been impeached.

Senators, I believe our time would best be used discussing the Republic's next steps, not dwelling on the past. The example of the conquest of Sicily shows that events may occur by the mid-term of a First consul's office that lead First Consuls to rethink their plans. August Verginius has now encountered such a situation. Our task in these few days is to consider his re-assessment of the situation and, in particular, his request for authorising war on Iberia.

[x-dANGEr]

Senators, senators..

I second the motions:

Motion 6.7 : We will ally ourselves with the Illyrians at any cost, also offering to declare war on their enemy the kingdom of Macedon.

Motion 6.8: This house instructs the First Consul, after raiding Bourges, to return all Roman troops back to the Republic. The raided Gallic settlements of Gergovia and Comata are to be left as buffers between us and Iberia and Germany. This motion invalidates motions 6.1, 6.3 and 6.4.


And withdraw my support of Motion 6.1, 6.3.

First, I wish you all to reason, and look at the table to plan what's next, rather than what's before. The news approached me that a Roman woman was tortured in Sparta, and then killed by a greek merchant, that for his deeds, hadn't got cursed, but praised. And so, I stare at you, wondering what will you disregard next! Now, we start with a humilation of the Republic under the hands of a filthy merchant, and the next thing we know, a city is down to those rivals and we shake no arms for it. Wake up, Senators! One last cry came out of that woman's mouth, with woe titled all over it, "Death for the glory of the Republic..", yes. A woman gave away her soul for her belief in the Republic, and what do we do?

Vibius Pleminius walks a few steps back and forth.

WHAT DO WE DO? We stand here, cry at each other, cursing and challenging, giving no care or importance to a Roman woman that believed in us. It fails me how such great, courageous and brave men would, let me get it right, 'disregard this deed, and put the level of mind over that of heart'. I urge you my Senators, to make me fulfil the price of that woman's soul, with blood from every greek warrior I stumble upon.

Iberia and Carthage are of now no threat to us, for they both are fighting each other, and to attack one of them is to strengthen the other. The Germans to the north should fall for the prey before their eyes. The last 2 Gallic cities should remain a bait for the Germans, may a war start between them and the Iberians.

And at the ease end of all this, I need to remind you all that, to take the death of a Roman woman - who praised her death to the Republic - lightly, is to betray the essence of our principles. Principle we use to work our life through that hard path to glory, to the glory of the Republic.

[TinCow]

My memory fails me, but I presume the motion was passed, otherwise I would have been impeached.

Your memory does not fail you Senator, but you forget that nearly the entire elective process in 278 was invalid. Of the nine motions that were put before this body, it was publicly known that but a single one of them received a second. This is no mere technicality, this is a Senatorial necessity which must be met before a motion can be accepted for voting. We have subsequently considered it of such importance that we now require two seconds before a motion can pass. Yet, the Motion to which you refer was improperly and illegally put to a vote by the Senate Scribe. Since the Motion never qualified for voting in the first place, whether it subsequently passed or failed it entirely irrelevant. I am threatened with impeachment over a decision that was entirely legal and within my power and yet this blatant violation of Senate law goes totally unnoticed.

I find this highly inappropriate, Senator. This is a place of civilized discussion. You need to be able to take criticism without resorting to violent threats.

Criticism I can take. The words of Lucius Aemilius in particular were nothing of the sort. He blatantly accused me of suffering "delusions of grandeur" and he has repeatedly implied that I have actively endangered the Republic with my actions. These statements go far beyond acceptable Senatorial debate. Given that I have a reputation to uphold...



...there is no way I can ignore or let pass such accusations. If you will not withdraw your comments nor engage in a private resolution of this dispute, I will be forced to turned to the Court under a charge of slander. No Roman may make such comments about me and expect them to be ignored!

[econ21]

[QUINTUS]: Oh dear, it appears that the First Consul also wants to legislate retrospectively. The motions of 278BC were entirely constitutional, having been seconded by anonymous senators. The fact that we have since moved to restricting seconding to a select few named senators in no way renders illegal proceedings that were made under earlier rules.

Gentlemen, let us cease these specious arguments on points of law and outbursts of pique. There are substantive matters of state to discuss. We should not waste time with these distractions.

[Silver Rusher]

In light of two events that have recently taken place regarding Pro-Consul Augustus Verginius, I would like to propose two motions:

Motion 6.10: This house proposes that, in honour of Augustus Verginius' astonishing victory and bravery against the Gauls in the Battle of Bononia, the city of Bononia shall be from now on known as Verginia in all Senate deliberations.

Motion 6.11: This house proposes that, due to the controversy surrounding the First Consul's decision to give several settlements to the Germanians, it be made constitutional law that the exchange of settlements must be outlined in Senate motions from now on.

I also second motions 6.6 and 6.7. The lands of the Balkan peninsular offer great prospects for Rome, with their high level of development and culture fairly similar to ours. We should gain a huge economic advantage from these lands.

[Glaucus]

I grow weary of all this talk of law and constitution. I have my opinions, yes, but have already voiced them and will spare you the trouble of listening again.

Instead, let us address Iberia and Germania. As I have demonstrated earlier, with 3 border forts we could ensure that Germans never come into our lands. Not that they would, they have never expanded before in our history. Check the senate archive if you doubt me. Iberia is almost finished with Carthage at Carthago Nova, there will have to expand somewhere. I know the scribes grow tired of the many motions tabled this session, but I feel I must put forth one more, a compromise of sorts:

Motion 6.12: This house details the movement of our military forces in Gaul:
A - This house proposes that Consular Army 1 sets sail for and captures Palma, a Carthaginian island south of Massilia. (Also preventing Iberian expansion in the Med.)
B-This house Proposes that Legio III build 3 border forts and spreads her troops out between the forts, to block any enemies journying south.
C-This house Proposes Legio I reamains in southern Gaul, ready to attack Narbo should Iberia act aggresivly toward us.

[x-dANGEr]

I second motion 6.11.

[Avicenna]

I apologise for my absence, senators, due to some.. managerial issues, and crowding at the Arena. No, I was not spending time there for fun, it was purely business I tell you..

I would like to second motions 6.1 through to 6.4, as well as motions 6.6 and [b[6.10[/b].

I would also remind you, my colleagues, that this is a body for the benefit of Rome, not a rowdy barbarian tavern, or a place to settle personal vendettas. Throwing empty accusations will get our state nowhere, and as such I condemn senator Coruncanius for the proposal of motion 6.9.

[Silver Rusher]

I grow weary of all this talk of law and constitution. I have my opinions, yes, but have already voiced them and will spare you the trouble of listening again.

Instead, let us address Iberia and Germania. As I have demonstrated earlier, with 3 border forts we could ensure that Germans never come into our lands. Not that they would, they have never expanded before in our history. Check the senate archive if you doubt me. Iberia is almost finished with Carthage at Carthago Nova, there will have to expand somewhere. I know the scribes grow tired of the many motions tabled this session, but I feel I must put forth one more, a compromise of sorts:

Motion 6.12: This house details the movement of our military forces in Gaul:
A - This house proposes that Consular Army 1 sets sail for and captures Palma, a Carthaginian island south of Massilia. (Also preventing Iberian expansion in the Med.)
B-This house Proposes that Legio III build 3 border forts and spreads her troops out between the forts, to block any enemies journying south.
C-This house Proposes Legio I reamains in southern Gaul, ready to attack Narbo should Iberia act aggresivly toward us.

Senator Publius, at first I was at a loss as to why you wanted to take Palma, but now it is very clear to me. Yes, if we are to attack the Iberian mainland, an island outpost is the perfect place to start! It is quick, efficient, and the Iberians will not have any idea. The border forts will be beneficial too, if you mean for them to built in the central alps. Please amend this motion to specify.

I second motion 6.12.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

Senators, and most especially my dear friend Augustus Verginius,

I have spoken harsh words in the senate against the decision of the acting consul Verginius to give away 'control' over the sacked Gaul settlements to Germania. I plead forgiveness from my dear friend for these words as I have been very upset by the loss of Faustina, my beloved mother-in-law. I might have let my emotions get the better from me in some of these speeches and this is not worthy of this house and I regret it.

Now that acting consul Verginius has explained his reasoning behind this decision I can understand the motivations. He is partly to blame as his initial report gave the picture that this decision was reached on a whim, something which I found almost impossible to believe from this man. I was wondering if the fierce fighting had deranged his mind, but it seems it was clear all along, he just neglected to fill us in on his reasoning untill now, as is understandable from a general in the midst of a campaign.

That said, I do not agree with his reasoning and I remain very unhappy with his strategic decison. So I will not retract my support from Motion 6.9. It is important that a precedent by set for future legislation by this house, even if I regret that this concerns my friend Augustus Verginius.

In view of his explenation to this house of his actions I see no reason whatsoever to take the drastic step of impeachment. Instead I will second Motion 6.10, as I want to make it absolutely clear that in spite of this disagreement I think the consul has performed his duties exemplary and with great devotion. I will also second Motion 6.11 as I want to avoid such unfortunate disagreements in the future. I urge all senators to follow me in this.

Finally I will second Motion 6.12, because I think the capture of Palma will be a strategic blow to the Republic of Carthage. I must however once more express my dislike of Motions with subclauses. I do hope senators will refrain from these Motion-packages in the future.

[Ignoramus]

Madness! I have been a firm supporter of Augustus Verginius, but he goes too far! Giving Gallic lands to Germans! These Germans will accept land and still attack us! The Gauls are honourable foes, more honourable than Germans!

[Glaucus]

The Gauls are honourable foes, more honourable than Germans!

Hate to sound like a child at play in the gutters of Roma, but,

Prove it!

[Ignoramus]

We attacked the Gauls, all they have done hav defended their homeland. They are honourable as barbarians go, but Germans have no honour. Germans will befriend Rome and then betray us when we do not expect it.

[Glaucus]

This is the third time I have said this, and no one seems to have heard me.

Germania has never expanded. Ever. End of story.

[Ignoramus]

Then why should we encourage them to do so. Tribune Pansa, you have been in Rome, you are ignorant of the surrounding kingdoms.

[TinCow]

We attacked the Gauls, all they have done hav defended their homeland. They are honourable as barbarians go, but Germans have no honour. Germans will befriend Rome and then betray us when we do not expect it.

I cannot believe the words that I am hearing. Gaul sacked this very city barely 100 years ago. Gaul has repeatedly raided our lands. This very conflict was begun when a massive Gallic forced moved into our territory without our consent, clearly they were not here for sight-seeing.

What have the Germans ever done to deserve our mistrust? We share no border whatsoever. They have never sent a army into our territory. While so many other nations, even those we call friends, have been caught spying on our military preparations, not one single German agent has ever been detected in our territory. Given the scope of time that has passed, we would know if one was here.

I am simply at a loss to explain this sudden change, Senator Antio. You openly supported me in the last election when I specifically advocated the extermination of all Gauls. You even specifically voted in favor of my proposed motion to allow this act. I do not understand this change of attitude and I will assume your dinner has not agreed with you.

On another matter, I feel I must again amend my statements regarding Motion 6.2. I had withdrawn this motion feeling that this body could not possibly fail to take advantage of our situation to finish the Gauls once and for all. In the event they were permanently removed as a menace to us, letting Bourges become an independant nation would certainly be in our best interests. However, now there seems to be some doubt as to whether it is even proper to finish off our oldest and most vile enemy. I remind the Senate that if we do not finish them, when we leave Bourges they will choose to return to Gaul, they will not become an independant people. This will simply give Gaul another area from which to create raiding parties to take Roman blood.

The only reason so far stated for preserving Gaul is to keep it as a buffer state. While I heavily disagree with this policy, surely those Senators who advocate it would not wish Gaul to have any power whatsoever beyond this buffer status. As such, I wish to re-impose the motion as amended below:

Motion 6.2: Bourges shall be given to Germania after it has been sacked if the Senate chooses not to permanently destroy the Gauls.

[Ignoramus]

I apologize, Consul, for my criticism. I sought only the good of Rome, and I now admit that even my most eloquent efforts have failed to convince the Gallic tribes of the benefits of Roman civilization. However, I fear that by giving the Germanic tribes the fertile land of Northern Gaul, which is very fertile indeed, may cause them to desire more, and thus cause them to invade us in want of more.

[Braden]

A recognised messenger arrives, it is Decius Curtius’s man servant. After being given leave to speak he unrolls his parchment and beings:

Noble Senators of the Republic,

I may shock you by saying that I will not support impeachment against the Consul for his actions of granting the Germainians Gaul territory. However, what I am surprised and vexed by is that the Consul would give such without first offering a relating treaty? I would like to know why we did not secure a firm alliance with the Germainians for these regions.

I will not support the impeachment as I feel that a Consul should have sufficient “free hand” to enter into such diplomatic moves. I do feel that the Republic has suffered from the Consuls misjudgement in this matter though and a lost chance for an alliance and further trade has been lost.

This is NOT to say that I support the Consul in his actions, only to say that any Consul should have the freedom to perform such acts.

No, I do not support this move. The Germainians can potentially be a much greater threat than the Gauls in time…..but that is a legacy the Consul will leave us for years in the future.

Iberia. Has the Consul lost his sanity?! Is he now a megalomaniac? I do not support any actions against the Iberians, we should withdraw as the Consul pledged to do in his manifesto and secure our borders, hence I support Motion #6.8. The Consul appears determined to drag us into more wars and endless bloodshed..

…I say to the Senate these are warnings that the Senate should have realised about at the last elections!! The current Consul is bent on Conquest for Conquests sake, he is drunk on Denarii I say!

I warned the Senate in the last session of this danger and I was NOT heeded. I ask the Senate to monitor this Consul very closely indeed as whilst the investment in the Republic is commendable the methods he is determined to follow further are unacceptable.

War in the North must stop! This was promised by the Consul before he was elected, he must follow that manifesto and withdraw once Gaul has been pacified. Give more regions to the Germainians if you choose Consul but you MUST gain more than just “good will” for them, this we must insist lest even I turn and urge a full impeachment which will loose you your office.

Lower your blood-lust Consul, come home and build. Carthage is still here, they grow stronger every season……as I predicted!......and soon we will have lost our chance to destroy our great enemy to the South. If you delay too long before preparing for Carthage, my the extra deaths weigh heavy on your heart.

We must use this extra denarii to continue building ships, without them we cannot defend our shores OR launch an invasion of Carthage or Greece or even protect any force in Iberia (should that folly be decided upon). To this end I propose the following motion:

Motion #6.13:

The Senate authorises the completion of a Consular fleet for transport and defence purposes.

Now, Consul, I am at your behest here in Afrika. Whilst I do not support, have never supported your proposals, my life is in your hands here. I ask that I be used in some form as I have been “neglected” in favour of my other counterparts.

The messenger sits and awaits the Senates pleasure……

[TinCow]

It appears my previous words have been overlooked by some. I will repeat them for clarification of this issue:

Regarding the territories given to Germania. It is a total fallacy of thought that I would ever have handed them over freely without spending maximum efforts in an attempt to secure both an alliance and monetary tribute for Rome. Sextus Antio discussed the issue twice with both the Thracian and the Germans. Neither was willing to give either a formal alliance or any kind of monetary compensation for the territories. Wisely, they recognized the total worthlessness of these territories and did not wish to pay for them.

At this point, I was confronted with a situation. Rome could not receive anything of value for these provinces, regardless of how much we may have wished to. I then saw two choices: leave the territories as they were and let the Gauls retake them, or gift them away to a non-hostile nation. I chose to weaken our enemy rather than give them any chance of recovery.

OOC:
Seriously, I think we should start expecting less in the Senate from Consular diplomacy. At this point, we have achieved pretty much everything that is possible to achieve. No one will agree to anything that hasn't already occurred. Greece won't even make peace with us, not even if offered a massive tribute, even though we share no border. Trust me, I've tried every option with Iberia, Germania, Thrace, Illyria, Macedon, Greece and Carthage... nothing works. It certainly is realistic to make motions for diplomatic actions and to discuss these things, but I think it's a bit unfair to hold it against me when it's a game mechanic I can't do anything about.

[Braden]

Consul,

As my master has indicated he does not question the validity of handing these regions to the Germainians. It was, a tactically sound proposition for, as you suggest, they would have been taken by force of arms soon anyway.

I apologise on my masters behalf for not relating the diplomatic details correctly or fully. I am sure his opinion would be to support the choice you made given the diplomatic brick wall you were presented with.

OOC: We’re only holding it against your character, in character so don’t worry. It’s a real shame that someone hasn’t been able to rectify the poor diplomatic AI in this game.

[TinCow]

I would like to take a moment to urge the Senate not to vote in favor of Motion 6.10. As was stated in the battle report, it was Legio I which was truly heroic in that action, not I. Furthermore it was but a single victory in a long and ongoing conflict. It was not a decisive battle against the Gauls nor was it strategically significant in the grand course of the war. I fully believe that renaming an entire settlement after me is excessive and insulting to the men who truly won the battle.

I personally do not believe such an honor is necessary nor do I think it is proper given the circumstances. If the Senate feels that honors must be accorded for this action, then I would ask that they be given to the Legion itself, not to me. Give them a bonus pension and make the Italian auxilia who fought there that day Roman citizens.

I do not believe anything is owed to me, but if the Senate insists otherwise I would far prefer that they not falter in the war against the Gallic tribes at the final hour. I ask of you, I beg of you, do not spare the Gauls. Let us finally avenge ourselves on them and set a lesson for the rest of the world to witness. Though I do not believe it to be in our best interests, I swear on Jupiter that if this body grants my request I will actively seek to avoid war with Iberia at all costs and will devote the remainder of my natural life to precision management of the Republic, to prepare her for whatever will come. Please Senators, let me avenge my family, let me avenge Rome.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

Acting consul Verginius,

If that is your wish I will withdraw my support for Motion 6.10.

Seeing as the Gauls are doomed I am inclined to vote for the destruction of Gaul and I will vote for motions that let us take over the remaining Gaul territory. I will thus accordingly vote for Motion 6.1 and Motion 6.3. I would not like to see any of the tribes nearer to us become even more powerful, so I will still cast my vote against Motion 6.2.

I see no point in a war with Iberia, and will thus continue to oppose Motion 6.4, but why not aid our neighbours the Illyrians in their fight against our common enemy Greece instead ? With Gaul destroyed and Carthage occupied with their war against Numidia, we can concentrate on a strong offensive against our original enemy, the Greeks. I therefore urge all the senators to vote for Motion 6.6 and Motion 6.7. If the Illyrians prove too proud to ally themselves at any cost, I suggest we invade Southern Greece, taking the heat of the Illyrian front.

[econ21]

[QUINTUS]: First Consul, I would ask you this: if you are so eager to eradicate Gaul, why did you not propose this at the outset - as Senator Publius Laevinus did? I would have supported you then, when we would have had a whole great tract of land to conquer and occupy.

But now, what would it profit us to seize two depopulated and burnt settlements? Very little. And what would we lose? For a start, our defensible position at the Massilia ford. But above all, by moving to seize those two settlements we would be brought into contact with Iberia, who you fear, and Germany, who you have made strong. Before your term is done, we would likely be dragged into one or two wars when we already have two unfinished! Indeed, you propose that we promptly start one now - with Iberia - for no reason that I can fathom.

And of course, you did not propose eliminating Gaul when you stood for election. Instead, you proposed this curious notion of a great raid - gutting the Gaulish settlements but foreswearing to occupy them. What did you imagine would happen when you vacated them? Did it really surprise you that the pitiful remnants of the people you have enslaved started creep back to their burnt hovels? That idea was apparently too repellant to you, although quite how those miserable survivors could have ever been a threat to us, I fail to see. So instead, you concieved the wheeze of giving those settlements to the Germans. To the Germans! Fearsome and predatory men who make even the Gauls appear civilised. I fear it will be only a matter of time before the Germans send their many javelins back to us in thanks! Hence instead of making the Germans fight for the settlements, at the least delaying their advance, at best making them pay for them in blood, you merely transfered them.

First Consul, how many of the Senators here would have voted for you if you had proposed this little wheeze in your manifesto? Vote for Verginius and a greater Germany! That would have been a catchy slogan ... in the Teutoberger Wald, for sure; perhaps less appealing along the Via Appia!

Verginius, frankly, I believe your hatred of Gauls has unhinged you. When this interim session of Senate opened, I requested that my men be allowed to drive off the brigands loitering in Southern Italy. You readily agreed. But then you quickly retracted that agreement having heard of my speech to the Senate advising against your reckless plan to wage war on the Iberians. Apparently, you no longer consider me a friend since I have attempted to stay your hand from final extermination of the Gauls and the start of a new bloodly feud with Iberia. So, you have undertaken to find a more pliable young Senator and send them to hunt down the brigands in reward for their acquiescence to your vendetta.

First Consul, who precisely did you think you were dealing with in this petulant maneouvring? Some lackey who could be swayed by your trivial inducements or chastised by your petty orders?

Verginius, I have twice defended you on the Senate floor against accusations about your honour and competence. I will not make the same mistake three times.

And do not bother to challenge me to a duel, Sir, I am neither young enough nor stupid enough to waste time with such foolishness.

I second motion #6.9 and suggest to Senator Tiberius Coruncanius that perhaps it should be reworded to:

"This house censors the First Consul for giving conquered settlements to the Germans without informing the Senate of his intention. Note: this does not impeach the First Consul"

However, I will support the motion regardless of the precise wording.

[flyd]

Senator Quintus, I agree with your suggestion regarding the wording of Motion 6.9, it is more clear and direct. If you run into the Speaker, get him to change the wording of the motion.

[TinCow]

First Consul, I would ask you this: if you are so eager to eradicate Gaul, why did you not propose this at the outset - as Senator Publius Laevinus did? I would have supported you then, when we would have had a whole great tract of land to conquer and occupy.

I did not propose it because I did not think it possible. Readily, I admit that I doubted my ability to sack all six settlements withing five years. The incredible bravery and skill of our men has vastly exceeded my expectations and, nearing the middle of my term, I found the Republic faced with an opportunity that neither I nor, I suspect, many other Senators thought we would have. In the face of such developments, surely it is not a sin to sieze fortune when it is offered.

Verginius, frankly, I believe your hatred of Gauls has unhinged you. When this interim session of Senate opened, I requested that my men be allowed to drive off the brigands loitering in Southern Italy. You readily agreed. But then you quickly retracted that agreement having heard of my speech to the Senate advising against your reckless plan to wage war on the Iberians. Apparently, you no longer consider me a friend since I have attempted to stay your hand from final extermination of the Gauls and the start of a new bloodly feud with Iberia. So, you have undertaken to find a more pliable young Senator and send them to hunt down the brigands in reward for their acquiescence to your vendetta.

First Consul, who precisely did you think you were dealing with in this petulant maneouvring? Some lackey who could be swayed by your trivial inducements or chastised by your petty orders?

Amusing, it seems you may have become unhinged yourself, Senator. You personally aggitated for war against mighty Carthage, yet now you fear barbarian tribes. You accuse me of persuing a deranged vendetta against the Gauls, when your stated reason for wishing the erradication of a band of lowly outlaws was because their leader's name was too similar to your own! Regardless, my attempt to appease you was out of defference for your past conquests, which I see no evidence of in the man before me. I promised Publis Pansa that he could personally destroy the brigands with Legio IV long before you ever requested the 'favor.' Frankly Senator, given what I see now, I believe you are ill-equipt for even such a mild battle. Your old age seems to have made you craven, fearing barbarians and going so far as to request retirement into provincial governance. No Senator, I would not give command of a Legion in battle to one such as you, not even if that command had not been previously promised to another.