Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations II

[econ21]

This thread is devoted to in-character communications about the Rome Total Realism Platinum PBM explained here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65972

For all out of character business - including volunteering to join the campaign - please post in the out of character thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65973

This thread should be for Senate business only.

On a personal note, I will post in two strictly separate capacities: as Senate Speaker (which I will preface by SENATE SPEAKER and write in normal type) and as an ordinary participant (which I will preface by the name of my avatar, currently Quintus, and write in italics).

During formal sessions of the Senate (every 10 turns of the game), motions can be proposed. Each motion requires TWO seconders before it can be voted on.

Motions that invalidate existing motions or motions proposed earlier should explicitly state that, otherwise they will be invalidated.

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SENATE ANNOUNCEMENTS

The Senate is open for the proposal of motions until 6pm UK time Saturday. Voting will then be open for 24 hours.

Motions proposed this session:

Motion 10.1: This house authorizes the First Consul to sell or give away Debeltos upon its capture to any neutral nation.
Proposed: Tiberius Coruncanius
Seconded: Numerius Aureolus, Decius Curtius, Publius Pansa

Motion 10.2: This house instructs the First Consul to conquer Byzantium.
Proposed: Tiberius Coruncanius
Seconded: Numerius Aureolus, Decius Curtius, Quintus Libo

Motion 10.3: This house instructs and authorizes the First Consul to seek an alliance with the Seleucid Empire.
Proposed: Tiberius Coruncanius
Seconded: Numerius Aureolus, Decius Curtius, Publius Pansa

Motion 10.4: If Byzantium is captured, this house instructs the First Consul to finish off the Greeks by taking also Nicomedia, and authorizes him to give Nicomedia back to the Seleucid Empire (from whom it was taken).
Proposed: Tiberius Coruncanius
Seconded: Numerius Aureolus, Quintus Libo

Motion 10.5: No attack will be made on a Macedonian city unless their borders once again become adjacent to ours.
Proposed: Augustus Verginius, Quintus Libo, Servius Aemilius

Motion 10.6: No attack will be made on a Greek city unless their borders once again become adjacent to ours.
Proposed: Augustus Verginius
Seconded: Publius Pansa, Servius Aemilius

Motion 10.7: Assassins will be sent out to kill Argeos of Pharsalus and will continue to make attempts on his life until he is dead.
Proposed: Augustus Verginius
Seconded: Decius Curtius, Servius Aemilius

Motion 10.8: No provinces will be conquered except those specified by the previous legislation authorizing expansion to the Danube. This Motion will be void if Rome is attacked by any currently neutral nation.
Proposed: Augustus Verginius
Seconded: Servius Aemilius, Quintus Libo

Motion 10.9: The Consul must attempt return all Legions to full strength by the end of his term and should prioritize the construction of a paved road network in as many provinces as possible.
Proposed: Augustus Verginius
Seconded: Servius Aemilius, Quintus Libo

(Constitutional Amendment) Motion 10.10: If Rome does not share a land border with a hostile nation and no land battle has been fought against that nation in 10 years, the Consul may use RomeSage to lower the difficulty level to Easy only for an instant to allow a ceasefire to be negotiated with this enemy. No other actions of any kind may be taken while the difficulty is lowered and it must be returned to Very Hard immediately after the negotiations are complete.
Proposed: Augustus Verginius
Seconded: Marcellius Aemilius, Decius Curtius, Publius Pansa, Servius Aemilius

(Constitutional Amendment revised) Motion 10.11:
(1) Candidates standing for First Consul can specify whether they wish to serve full terms (5 years) or half terms (2.5 years).
(2) No candidate may serve more than 5 years in any given 15 year period.
(3) First Consuls may delegate powers to pro-Consuls provided that they indicate that is their intention during their candidature (the pro-Consul need not be named).
Proposed: Augustus Verginius
Seconded: Marcellius Aemilius, Decius Curtius, Publius Pansa, Servius Aemilius, Numerius Aureolus

Motion 10.12: If Motion 10.10 passes, the Consul will make peace with Carthage on terms that he deems to be honorable to both sides.
Proposed: Augustus Verginius
Seconded: Marcellius Aemilius, Decius Curtius, Publius Pansa, Servius Aemilius

Motion 10.13: Debeltos is to be raided - sacked, then abandoned.
Proposed: Marcellius Aemilius
Seconded: Publius Pansa

Motion 10.14: This motion authorizes the Consul to start actively conquering Iberian lands. This motion authorises a declaration of war on Iberia.
Proposed: Marcellius Aemilius
Seconded: Galerius Vatinius

Motion 10.15: In order to secure the Republic's eastern border, this house instructs the First Consul to completely expel the forces of Ptolemy from Thrace, and to capture Byzantium. This motion authorizes a declaration of war on the Ptolemaic Empire.
Proposed: Tiberius Coruncanius

Motion 10.16 The Republic must re-think it's manner of deployment for Rome's legions and other defensive forces and come up with a suitable plan to better ensure the security of our growing nation's borders.
Proposed: Servius Aemilius

Motion 10.17 The three churigeons in Rome are to be sent without delay to Marcellus Aemilius, Tiberius Coruncanius and Quintus Libo. Any new churigeons spawned are to be sent to other Lower House members with frontline commands, starting with Numerius Aureolus.[/i]
Proposed: Numerius Aureolus
Seconded: Marcellus Aemilius, Manius Coruncanius, Tiberius Coruncanius, Quintus Libo

Motion 10.18 (Constitutional Ammendment): To ammend the constitution to allow acting Consuls to procure any such militarily relevant ancillaries as necessary for his campaign from other senators. These ancillaries must provide campaign or battle assistance only. Managerial and influential assistants do not fall within the perview of this motion. FURTHERMORE, the Consul is NOT empowered to unload existing ancillaries to accept new ancillaries.
Proposed: Galerius Vatinius

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

I would like to express my sadness for the loss of Consul Quintus of his wife Faustina. She was well known as a respectable roman matron and I share his feelings at the loss of my mother-in-law. Thankfully, his extended family will help him to overcome this sad event.

Further I would like to congratulate legate Publius Leavinus and our acting consul Augustus Verginius on their great victories. The lands of Cispine Gaul are flooded with slaves and can now be developed further. The riches of Alesia have provided us with large amounts of badly-needed treasure with which we can pay for this.

Hail Roma !

[Glaucus]

Indeed, congradulations to Senator Publius Laevinus, I think I triumph is in order when he returns to Italy. To kill over 1000 Gauls for only 8 Romans is a victory sent from Mars and Jupiter themselves. I shall go offer a lamb myself in thanks.

I adamantly oppose any alliance with the Kingdom of Macedon. Need I remind you senators, that the Heirs of Phillip and Alexander are allied to the Greek Cities, our enemies. In my opinion, we should not even be considering talking to them about alliances. I say let Illyria and Thrace burn Pella to the ground! Why should we care? We should never consider an alliance, and immedietly refuse any offer as soon as they come. Those are just my thoughts senators, I would not want to ally with any Hellinic people, for as long as they stand against us.

[x-dANGEr]

Vibius Pleminius shrubs and leaves, with silence on his way out

[TinCow]

*A messenger rushes in, sweaty from a long ride. He bows briefly before turning to the door. A dozen slaves, carrying 6 large chests between them, shuffle into the room. They reach the middle of the floor and drop the chests, opening them for all to see. As the glitter of mounds of gold, silver and other valuables shines in the light, the messenger unrolls a scroll, from which he begins to read.*

Glory to Rome! Glory to the Republic!

Senators, I bring to you a sample of the wealth the Expedition has recovered from Gaul. Nearly 25,000 dinarii and thousands of slaves have been taken from the Gallic settlements, and the conquest is not yet even complete. Gergovia, Comata, Alesia, Remi and Gwenea have fallen before the might of the Republic and been left a wasteland. The only untouched settlement, Bourges, will fall this very winter.

With the mass of slave labor we have obtained, every single Cisalpine settlement has been turned into a small city. Even now Governor's Villas are being built or nearing completion in nearly all of them. Road construction will begin in some at the turn of the season and all of our northern territories should have roads by the end of my Consulship. The wealth of Gaul, much of it looted Roman gold and treasure from the time of Brennus, has been sent to the treasury and invested in the Republic. No less than 9 provinces have had auxilia infrastructure created in them. Governor's Villas and Palaces have gone up all over Italy to allow proper governance of our territories. Countless temples have been erected to glorify the Gods and appease some of our more troubled provinces. A safe harbor has been built to increase trade in Arretium and paved roads are being constructed in Rome as we speak.

With these investments and proper managerial control, income has increased by 2,500 dinarii per season and is still growing. Our treasury stands at over 14,000 dinarii as we speak, and many great building projects will begin this very winter. Our armies our strong, the Republic is strong. We have defeated all those who have opposed us... and yet there is much work to be done.

As was debated and agreed upon in this Senate, I have immediately abandoned all of the Gallic settlements which I have taken. This, and the steadfast determination or our Legions, has allowed me to strike harder and faster than I could ever have imagined. Publius Laevinus believed I could only take three settlements. I said I would take them all, but I truly thought it would take my entire term to do so. Yet now, only halfway through, the Gallic Expedition is almost complete!

As Roman men laid waste to their homes and their fields, I thought deeply about the future. As expected, the Gauls immediately moved to re-occupy the cesspits which they had lost. We know these territories are of no value to us and would require an excessive expenditure on arms to hold. We do not wish to keep them, yet the Gauls would eventually rebuild and send more warbands at us from them. Even now, Gergovia and Comata have been re-occupied and only last season another force assaulted Legio I at the Massilia crossing.

So, Senators, I have found a solution to this problem. To the north lies the tribe of Germania. They are smelly, pants-wearing barbarians, true, but they have remained civil and peaceful with the Republic. They have not once made an aggressive move towards us and they are heavily invested in a conflict with the Thracians. They are not a threat to us in the least. For this reason, I have turned over control of Alesia, Remi and Gwenea to them. No more shall these places be used to raise arms against Rome. No more shall we need to spend Roman blood to pacify them. Do not fear the German control of these provinces, they remain wastelands and can serve the northern tribes no more than they could serve the Gauls. Now, however, the settlements belong to one who is at peace with us, rather than one who is at war.

Senators, I say to you that it is within our power, here and now, to rid the world of the Gauls once and for all. Before winter is done, I shall assault Bourges and clense the last bastion of Gallic power. Let me give this to Germania as well. Like the others, it is far from our borders and of no use to us. It shall be left a wasteland like the rest and shall benefit them not. Furthermore, I implore you to allow me to finish the Gauls and send them all to Hades. After Bourges, they will have but the reoccupied settlements of Gergovia and Comata under their influence. Legio I and Legio III are both now stationed at the Massilia crossing. If this body would permit it, I will ask Lucius Aemilius and Publius Laevinus to lead their men across. Within three to six months, they can take both remaining settlements, eliminating the threat once and for all! Senators, I say to you, we can be rid of the Gauls for good less than half a year from now!

Yet, what then? I note with a mix of glee and displeasure that the Iberians have almost totally driven the Carthaginians from the peninsula. This is cause for celebration, true, but it is also cause for concern. Senators, I must inform you that Iberia is an ally of Gaul. They have great masses of men under arms and will have united all of Iberia under their control within a year. They will not sit idly by, I swear to you. Even now, three of their armies are in the north, one supporting their allies near Gergovia. Once Gaul ceases to exist, there will be nothing seperating our lands from theirs. It may take a season, it may take a year, but they will invade us. They are allies of the Gauls for a reason. They are the enemies of civilized people and they will turn they will turn their eyes on the riches of the Republic.

As I said, Legio I and Legio III are ready and prepared at the Massilia crossing. Let us unleash them upon the Gauls. Let us secure Gergovia and Comata, this time for good. With a small force fortified at the crossing and with our northern border held by the peaceful Germans, Legio I alone could keep the peace in both of these provinces and protect Massilia. All three are close and Gergovia is walled, such a feat would be a simple task. This would allow Legio III, under Publius Laevinus, and the Consular I Army to make a pre-emptive strike south at the Iberians, before they can bring war to us.

I believe that with the skill and courage of Senators Publius Laevinus and Lucius Aemilius, we could secure all of southern Gaul, northeastern Iberia and the shoreline as far south as Carthago Nova before my term is complete. These are trading provinces, Senators. Carthage developed many of them, and for good reason. They would bring us much wealth in the future and would vastly aid in the long-term struggle against Carthage. Why, from these territories, future Consuls could strike at Africa from east and west simultaneously!

Think to the future, Senators. The Iberians will attack us. If we move now, we can defeat them with a pre-emptive strike and vastly enrich the Republic with trade from the lost Punic provinces in Iberia.

I await word of your decision.

Your servant,
Augustus Verginius

*The messenger finishes, rolls up the scroll, and stands to the side, waiting patiently.*

Motion 6.1: Gaul shall be destroyed, never again to threaten Roman lands.
Motion 6.2: Bourges shall be given to Germania after it has been sacked.
Motion 6.3: Legio I and Legio III will conquer the settlements of Gergovia and Comata, never to be abandoned again.
Motion 6.4: A declaration of war against Iberia is authorized, with the purpose of siezing the northeastern and coastal provinces, especially those previously lost by Carthage.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/...st-interim.zip

[shifty157]

I second motions 6.1 through 6.3.

I have not yet decided how it is best to deal with the Iberians as I am not very convinced that they pose an imminent threat towward our empire. If the Gaulish lands were so far from our lands that they could not be held then I wonder what our Consul plans to do with Iberia whose lands are even farther away and who is currently very much at peace with us.

Regardless I congratulate our Consul on his successes in Gaul and I wish the aid of the Gods for his final assault in the far corner of the former Gaulish empire.

I propose Motion 6.5 which states that by the end of his reign, our current Consul must have begun the process of auxiliary integration in all provinces in our empire.

If we are to support armies across the seas in Iberia as our Consul wishes then we will need a larger base of support for our military. Too long have our home lands of Rome Capua and Ancona provided the vast majority of the troops for our armies. These three cities have supported us thus far in our expansion but I fear that very soon we will have grown beyond what we can safely and easily support.

[Glaucus]

Well done First Consul! You have proven me wrong. I thought an expedition into Gaul would undo the Republic, but you have made us stronger then ever. I congradulate you.

Motion 6.1: Gaul shall be destroyed, never again to threaten Roman lands.

This is obviously the logical course of action to take, if we leave an enemy alive but wounded, one day it will recover and fight again. Raze Bourges to the ground if it pleases the troops, or leave it unscathed, I personally don't care. But that brings me to my next point:

Motion 6.2: Bourges shall be given to Germania after it has been sacked.

Why should we give them more then we must? Once Gaul is gone they are gone for good. I think we should leave Bourges to Brigands. Germania may have good intentions toward us, but if they want Bourges let them expend men to do so. We should take the town, loot it, and leave. There is no need to give it to the Germans, let the locals take it, this way we can milk some taxes out of it before they civil revolt.

Motion 6.3: Legio I and Legio III will conquer the settlements of Gergovia and Comata, never to be abandoned again.

I agree. I also think we should build a series of forts in order to ensure that no barbarians ever journy south into Roman lands again. I have calculated that with only 3 forts we could effectivly block any passage south from Germania to Massilia or Gergovia.

Thus I modify Motion 6.3 to this: Modified Motion 6.3:Legio I and Legio III will conquer the settlements of Gergovia and Comata, never to be abandoned again. This house also authorizes the building of 3 borderforts in strategic locations so as to prevent Germania or any other barbarians from journeying south again.

Motion 6.4: A declaration of war against Iberia is authorized, with the purpose of siezing the northeastern and coastal provinces, especially those previously lost by Carthage.

Cheers. I also think we should attack the on the eastern coast of the continent, north of the pyrenes. The name escapes me but I know it was once Gaullic and it now Iberian.

Publius Pansa