Union advises members to throw a 'sickie'!

[InsaneApache]

A row has broken out between employers and the union Amicus after it was accused of advising people how to take "sickies" to watch the World Cup.

On its website, the union says it is "difficult to prove someone is not really sick" and offers a line of defence to workers who are caught out.

But Stephen Alambriitis of the Federation of Small Business says that, with absence costing the UK economy £13bn a year, it does not need a major trade union offering guidance on the best way to throw a "sickie".

He told the BBC that publishing such advice was "grossly unfair on all staff." and he urged Amicus to withdraw its advice.

linky

Disgusting.

However my take on this is more pragmatic. I have in the past taken a telly to work and got the staff together and watched the footy. It's good for morale and shows the team that we are all in the same boat. I'd like to take days off to watch England play, but if I don't work, I don't get paid. Simple as. Also to ban the matches would be like acting like King Canute, sometimes the path of least resistance is the right path.

But for a public sector union to advise this is tantamount to theft as taxpayers pay their wages. Perhaps the union should pay the wages and see how they like that.

[English assassin]

Hmm. I notice the BBC story does not also report that the BBC are threatening firms that have a TV on their premises to watch games without a TV Licence?

[Red Peasant]

Yeah, I remember in one place I worked that a manager (David Brent type) brought a crappy little portable in to work so we could watch Euro 2004. He disappeared to a 'meeting' (ie the pub to watch the match) and left his sidekick to make sure we were so busy that we never got to watch much of the game anyway. Next game ... I was sick. Vive la Revolution!

And no I didn't feel guilty for that slave-driving, pittance-paying, tuppenny-halpenny operation! In fact, it made me feel empowered - I'm human, not a doormat! Yay!

[Ja'chyra]

linky

Disgusting.

However my take on this is more pragmatic. I have in the past taken a telly to work and got the staff together and watched the footy. It's good for morale and shows the team that we are all in the same boat. I'd like to take days off to watch England play, but if I don't work, I don't get paid. Simple as. Also to ban the matches would be like acting like King Canute, sometimes the path of least resistance is the right path.

But for a public sector union to advise this is tantamount to theft as taxpayers pay their wages. Perhaps the union should pay the wages and see how they like that.

Welcome to Amicus
Amicus the union is dedicated to serving the needs
and best interests of its members who are currently experiencing life in the modern workplace.

Representing all workers in both the public and private sectors, Amicus is dedicated to improving their standard of living and the quality of their lives through effective relationships with employers and government.

You can do better than that IA.

[Papewaio]

Wow, our company bought a 37" flat screen for staff to watch the Melbourne cup on, and has another large flat screen XBOX 360s plus automated cappocino machines on each level...

[InsaneApache]

You can do better than that IA.

You're right I can.

Part of the unions members work in the public sector and are funded by taxpayers. This is tantamount to theft. Perhaps the union would like to pay the wages of that portion of them who work for the public sector and see how they like that. As for the section that work in the private sector it's ok to screw your employer who puts food on your table and a roof over your head, after all it's a well known fact that they are a slave-driving, pittance-paying, tuppenny-halpenny operation and deserve everything they get.

Is that better?

[Idaho]

Typical knicker-wetting, curtain twitching nonsense from the 'PC Gone mad' Brigade. The full story is far less dramatic than these Daily Mail-esque headlines.

2 out of 10 must try harder

[InsaneApache]

2 out of 10 wow! I usually just get an 'E' for effort. I am improving.

[KukriKhan]

2 questions:
1) When one 'throws a sickie', is one paid for that day?*
2) Must all TV's be licensed?

*Some union contracts here allow 'sick leave', a paid day off; it's a"use it or lose it" provision, though - you can't save it up and cash it in at retirement, for example.

[InsaneApache]

2 questions:
1) When one 'throws a sickie', is one paid for that day?*
2) Must all TV's be licensed?

*Some union contracts here allow 'sick leave', a paid day off; it's a"use it or lose it" provision, though - you can't save it up and cash it in at retirement, for example.

1) All public sector workers get paid for days off sick. IIRC (well it was 20 years ago) they are entitled to six months continuous sick leave at full pay, followed by six months half pay.

Private sector workers fall into a mixed bunch. Some do get paid, probably by the firms insurance, but most, I suspect don't get paid.

Also IIRC the first seven days absence is 'self certified' so they don't even go to see a doctor for a 'sick note'. A charter to bump up your annual leave.

2) No. It's not the televisions per se that have to be licensed, rather it is the property the tellys used in.

[ShadesWolf]

Typical knicker-wetting, curtain twitching nonsense from the 'PC Gone mad' Brigade. The full story is far less dramatic than these Daily Mail-esque headlines.

2 out of 10 must try harder

Said like a true union man

[Duke of Gloucester]

All public sector workers get paid for days off sick. IIRC (well it was 20 years ago) they are entitled to six months continuous sick leave at full pay, followed by six months half pay.

The word "all" is dangerous. Locum doctors and supply teachers don't get paid if they don't work, but almost all workers get paid for days off sick. My public sector contract is exactly what you state: six months at full pay and six months at half pay.

I am not sure where this idea that throwing a sickie is worse if you work in the public sector. Whatever way you look at it, you are defrauding your employer and this is equally bad whether you work for the government, a multinational or a tiny business.

If you read the union website carefully they don't advise their members to pretend to be ill; they just tell them what might happen if they do, i.e that they will probably get away with it, but might be in serious trouble if caught. Of course they should advise their members not to throw a sickie because it is theft and also because other union members, maybe the ones who don't like football have to cover for them so it is unfair on colleagues too. This piece of advice is missing, unfortunately.

[InsaneApache]

The thing is, I have seen employment from all sides of the fence, and then some.

I have been an employee aged 16 years and got the crap that comes with being junior. I have had, both good jobs and bad ones. Some with good pay, some with a pittance.

I have worked hard and been promoted. Chargehand, supervisor, duty manager and manager.

I have also endured periods of unemployment and have experienced the joys of deciding wether to eat this week or pay the electric bill.

I have also been fortunate enough to start up my own businesses. I have employed people and dismissed them.

I have also been a longstanding union man myself. AUEW and GMBU principally.

However that this is even a discussion shows how fat and lazy we have got in the UK.

It is just plain wrong, and as DoG says it is theft and cheating.

[Red Peasant]

Spoken like a true employer, IA.

If an employer is, in my estimation, being unreasonable then I will exercise my right to look after my own interests. I've been shafted by every employer I've had in some way or other in a long employment history and I reckon my occasional lapse lies much lighter in the scales of justice. I am quite certain of my moral superiority over them all.

[Kralizec]

Spoken like a true employer, IA.

If an employer is, in my estimation, being unreasonable then I will exercise my right to look after my own interests.

Breach of contract is among your rights?

Not letting you watch football because you didn't request a day off, despite that you could have known the match dates months in advance, is unreasonable behaviour of the employer?

You have no qualms with getting paid while watching football, even if the costs are on the tax paying people?

[Red Peasant]

Ah, the indignation! Having been ripped-off and exploited by just about every employer I've known, NOPE, I have no qualms at all. To use a good old biblical phrase 'An eye for an eye, etc.'

However, I would say that I am actually one of the much more reliable and trustworthy employees. I worked for British Aluminium/Alcan/Alcoa for sixteen years and probably had about a week off total in sick days over all that time, and I never pilfered anything except maybe a biro once which I forgot to take out of my pocket. Stop thief!!! So, before you decide to cast me into the seventh circle of hell or somewhere, let's get some perspective here. Though maybe the seventh circle of hell isn't as all bad as it's been cracked up to be!

[InsaneApache]

Welcome to the socialist mindset.

After all those bastards who give me a job, and feed and house my family, are the scum of the Earth. Just who do they think they are? Then when I want to filch them and take a day off to watch a 'football match' the swine won't let me.

What a set of capitalist running dogs. How dare they 'shaft' me. After all I'm only in employment so that the 'capitalists running dogs' can make money. Ohhh the shame of living in a country where you have free choice.



PS: I like the 7th circle of hell, it's got the best babes.

[JAG]

Great advice.

[ShadesWolf]

My employer was quite good on this.

All employees were told if they wanted to see the match (ie it is your country playing) If it was a 5pm kick off you could finish at 4PM as long as you made the hour up. If it was a 2pm kick off you needed to take it off as holiday.

This way all people know where they stand.

[InsaneApache]

Great advice.

Glad you agree with me JAG

[JAG]

Glad you agree with me JAG

I should probably rephrase. The union is giving great advice, take the day off, leave the bastard money grabbing gits to work for themselves for a change.

[rory_20_uk]

Jag, what planet are you on?

Consider the a company like a rowing galley. Sure, the hard work is done by the masses of indentured oremen. But without the few on the top deck, and indeed someone to beat out the rythm, they are incapable of achieving anything productive. They'd have no clear direction, and would quickly fail to even row in time.

The hard working masses on the shop floor are making produce for orders. The orders don't magically appear. Someone has to get them. Products need to be designed, regulations passed.

If the workers tried to fill in the top places in a cmpany it'd go bust in a few months - depending on how much money they had to burn through.

To work a machine requires no ability. Anyone can do it, and hence supply is high. To to enable a new product to pass FDA approval requires highly specialist knowledge. Supply is low, but as the post is essential wages are high to ensure that the post is filled.

Perhaps when you leave the confines of Uni you might get a glimpse of the real world.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Good analogy.

If someone on the oar deck leans on their oar (or disappears to watch the football) , the other rowers have to work harder.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Lots of black and white arguments being put forward. It doesn't have to be that way.

In my former business (now run by my partner) we arranged that there would be TVs placed in the classrooms for both students and tutors for the afternoon matches. We already have working hours that finish at 4.30 pm so the early evening matches are no problem. The tutors used the games as work materials for discussion and learning.

Some businesses can't operate this way of course. I tried to be an employer that listened to what people wanted (most of my female tutors of course, didn't want the 'benefit' of match TVs, so we came up with something for them). I have always believed that a happy workforce is a productive workforce, and that creating a culture of clocking on and off to exact times is useless. After all, in the long working hours culture now prevalent, how much productive work is actually done? People just spend more time chatting - yes, they're at work, but are they doing something? My lot go home at 4.30 or I get annoyed.

My people always worked damn hard for me - I always tried to look after them.

Having said that, every single one of them knew that any breach of that trust relationship would see them hitting the dole queue faster than they could imagine. Trust is a one time deal with me. Every now and again, someone (usually new) would try it on, and would be dealt with - pour encourager les autres.

Not all employers are self-interested brutes. You make much better profits with happy staff, believe me.

[rory_20_uk]

In essence that is the beauty of small businesses. Dirrect contact with the boss, trust back and forth, real work gets real results.

The NHS working your balls off for the stated hours plus a few more means that those On High see everything is working, and they don't need to employ any more clinical staff. In my last department the doctors were doing the work of the secretaries as turnover rates for secretariers were so high (poor pay, no run in period). But higher up there is no problem as the work is being done - therefore the system works!

What happens to hospitals if masses of staff bugger off? Clinicians can't as we have a duty of care. Yeah, old fashioned term that - DUTY. So clinicians can do their own job and the jobs of the admin staff. Thanks a lot Jag.