Alexander impressions (multiplayer)

[Reenk Roink]

A couple of guys from RTK are downloading and checking out Alexander: Total War as I type. I'm pretty sure others have too, and I want your impressions for the multiplayer aspect of the game. Is it balanced? Are 4 factions enough? etc...

Thanks in advance...

[KrooK]

There might be problem with this add-on. Many players simply doesn't have international credit card :)

[x-dANGEr]

Oh a couple of Sith had already played it. "I see too much pink," said one of them. The other complained because he can't conquer India ?! And also saying that the campaign is too short. About MP, well it is too hard to get a game going with it, because it is like only %1 of those who play MP do have it.

[Monarch]

because it is like only %1 of those who play MP do have it.

I guess the easiest answer to that is to get going some sort of sub community for it and plan on forums when you play etc, IIRC something similar to how RTR players play.

Anyhow, not played it, don't intend to. The only game I can afford atm is America's Army

[x-dANGEr]

https://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7493/alexlol3ci.jpg
https://img365.imageshack.us/img365/...lexvsno8gs.jpg

The only screenies I found posted on the forum. Fawkes who seems the most active on it hasn't posted any..

P.S. Days of spam, make use of them before they're limited lol.

[Monarch]

Seems your clan mate likes to spam cavalry...I bet that makes for a great gripping game with lots of strategic planning required.

(Counting eles as cav btw too)

[x-dANGEr]

Is that meant as an insult? Because I see no wink to imply sarcasm.

[Monarch]

Is that meant as an insult?.

Yes. :P

[tibilicus]

All elepehants. :P

And don't woork X Danger Monarch is msotly harmless.

[x-dANGEr]

Whatever woork means.. !

Anyway Monarch, I suppose that army was easy to beat, so basically that Sith guy did him a favor

[Monarch]

Whatever woork means.. !

Anyway Monarch, I suppose that army was easy to beat, so basically that Sith guy did him a favor

But its boring to play against, note the "host has left and terminated the game" in both instances, TBH I'd usually say they're idiots leaving a game even if its right near the end and what have you, especially as host, but when they've just got raped by ele spam I support what they did.

[x-dANGEr]

To be honest, me too. But really, you can't judge a whole battle through and end 'screenie'. You have nearly no input about the armies of the battle (Note that in the second one, you can only see that JC had 6 cav units, which is far from effective spam AFAIT).

[Puzz3D]

P.S. Days of spam, make use of them before they're limited lol.

We don't have to limit spam armies in STWmod for MTW/VI because the standard 60 man spear which costs 400 beats the best 60 man cav which costs 1200. You have to bring a combined arms army.

[x-dANGEr]

We don't have to limit spam armies in STWmod for MTW/VI because the standard 60 man spear which costs 400 beats the best 60 man cav which costs 1200. You have to bring a combined arms army.

Cool. (We all know that Shogun was another thing, even though I strictly don't agree to the fact that any spearmen unit can beat any cav unit, I don't know if that is implied in Shogun though).

[R'as al Ghul]

We don't have to limit spam armies in STWmod for MTW/VI because the standard 60 man spear which costs 400 beats the best 60 man cav which costs 1200. You have to bring a combined arms army.

Plus, we have a community of mature players who want tactical gameplay.
I can't imagine any of them bringing a spam army and I can't evenb imagine a possible spam army.

Cool. (We all know that Shogun was another thing, even though I strictly don't agree to the fact that any spearmen unit can beat any cav unit, I don't know if that is implied in Shogun though).

It's not like it is in R:TW. When a spear unit is flanked or hit in the back it will
loose against Cav. Even worse when the spear unit is already engaged.
It doesn't happen that the unit simply wheels around and finishs the Cav off like in Rome.

[Puzz3D]

Cool. (We all know that Shogun was another thing, even though I strictly don't agree to the fact that any spearmen unit can beat any cav unit, I don't know if that is implied in Shogun though).

Yes it was clearly stated that it was supposed to be like that. Checkout this chart of the Unit vs Tree in the IGN Guide It clearly shows that Yari Samurai provide an exceptional win against Heavy Cavalry and Yari Cavalry.

R'as is right that, if cav charge into the rear of a spear unit in STWmod, the cav will win because the spear will rout. Since the morale level in STWmod is controlled, this works as intended. In versions of total war multiplayer where many upgrades are used, the RPS tactical system can breakdown and the rout characterisics change as well.

[Monarch]

Lol, how does an Alexander discussion thread turn into an advertisment for Shogun?

[x-dANGEr]

Yes it was clearly stated that it was supposed to be like that. Checkout this chart of the Unit vs Tree in the IGN Guide It clearly shows that Yari Samurai provide an exceptional win against Heavy Cavalry and Yari Cavalry.

R'as is right that, if cav charge into the rear of a spear unit in STWmod, the cav will win because the spear will rout. Since the morale level in STWmod is controlled, this works as intended. In versions of total war multiplayer where many upgrades are used, the RPS tactical system can breakdown and the rout characterisics change as well.

If a low level spearmen unit can beat a high end cavalry unit, then the system is broken.

What do I mean by low level spearmen: Runaway Slave Spearmen in BI, etc.. Though, in S: TW, there is only 1 kind of spearmen, so there isn't a low level or a high level. Got what I mean?

It would be absurd if a cata unit would lose to a Runaway Slave Spearmen one.

[CBR]

If a low level spearmen unit can beat a high end cavalry unit, then the system is broken.

What do I mean by low level spearmen: Runaway Slave Spearmen in BI, etc.. Though, in S: TW, there is only 1 kind of spearmen, so there isn't a low level or a high level. Got what I mean?

It would be absurd if a cata unit would lose to a Runaway Slave Spearmen one.

Yeah low level spears should lose to the best cav and thats how it works on STW too as Yari Ashigaru loses to heavy cav (STW has two spear units)


CBR

[Monarch]

If a low level spearmen unit can beat a high end cavalry unit, then the system is broken.

What do I mean by low level spearmen: Runaway Slave Spearmen in BI, etc.. Though, in S: TW, there is only 1 kind of spearmen, so there isn't a low level or a high level. Got what I mean?

It would be absurd if a cata unit would lose to a Runaway Slave Spearmen one.

I know this is kinda "by the by", but when you hover over a unit in battle selection it lists its special features, on some spearmen such as Frank Spears, possibly Runaways and Legio Lanciarri, the "bonus fighting cav" doesn't show up. Do you we know if this is a fault on CA not including it in the hover but it actually has bonuses in game files or do the spearmen jsut randomly not have bonus vs cav?

Again, sorry for going off topic.

[Puzz3D]

If a low level spearmen unit can beat a high end cavalry unit, then the system is broken.

Yari Samurai are not low level spearmen.

Here is what you have in RTW: Legionary cav with 55 men (cost 790) beat Desert spearmen with 80 men (cost 390). The cav kill the spearmen at a rate of 2 to 1. There is clearly something wrong when spearmen have to cost more than 1/2 the cav they beat. This is why you have the cav spam problems in RTW multiplayer.

[Monarch]

Yari Samurai are not low level spearmen.

Here is what you have in RTW: Legionary cav with 55 men (cost 790) beat Desert spearmen with 80 men (cost 390). The cav kill the spearmen at a rate of 2 to 1. There is clearly something wrong when spearmen have to cost more than 1/2 the cav they beat. This is why you have the cav spam problems in RTW multiplayer.

You do in 1.5, however in BI due to heavy cav costing around 1000 denarri just for bog standard barb nobles and cataphracts/clibs costing 1300+, there is much less cav spam. (only real exception for decent, under 1k costing cav is sarmarttian auxilia, a real bargain around the 800 denarri mark.)

[x-dANGEr]

Yari Samurai are not low level spearmen.

Here is what you have in RTW: Legionary cav with 55 men (cost 790) beat Desert spearmen with 80 men (cost 390). The cav kill the spearmen at a rate of 2 to 1. There is clearly something wrong when spearmen have to cost more than 1/2 the cav they beat. This is why you have the cav spam problems in RTW multiplayer.

I think that is cool, since those Desert Spearmen, are probably folks who never had fought cavalry, since they raided, and not got raided. (And, they're the lowest level of spearmen around there).

Though, if you take a trained spearmen unit, let's say Triarii, they can hold to 5 catas charging at the same time, and even slaughtering them for that matter. So, I do think that crappy spearmen are/should be crappy, no matter what are they fighting, because they are just folks with spears, not those who trained with it, learned formations about it, etc..

// If you say that's wrong, well maybe I'm a bit exaggerating, but I know that I was able to kill 4-6 roman cav units with a Triarii one.

[Puzz3D]

I think that is cool, since those Desert Spearmen, are probably folks who never had fought cavalry, since they raided, and not got raided. (And, they're the lowest level of spearmen around there).

If Desert Spearmen are so crappy, why do they cost 390 when Triarii cost 500?

Though, if you take a trained spearmen unit, let's say Triarii, they can hold to 5 catas charging at the same time, and even slaughtering them for that matter. So, I do think that crappy spearmen are/should be crappy, no matter what are they fighting, because they are just folks with spears, not those who trained with it, learned formations about it, etc..

I just ran a test, and Triarii (83 men, 500 denari) do beat Cataphracts (54 men, 940 denari) with a 1 to 1 kill ratio. At the point the Cataphracts routed with 11 men, the Triarii had 43 men left which is about 1/2 strength. I then tried 2 Cata (109 men, 1880 denari) charging simultaneously into a Triarii (83 men, 500 denari) and the Cata won with a kill ratio of 4 to 1. The Catas killed 65 men and lost 16. The Triarii routed at 18 men while the Catas had 95 men.

If you say that's wrong, well maybe I'm a bit exaggerating, but I know that I was able to kill 4-6 roman cav units with a Triarii one.

A triarii (500) beats a cata (940), but looses to 2 cata (1880). The triarii costs slightly more than 1/2 of the cav it beats, which is better than the cost relationship of the desert spearmen to the cav it beats, but it's still a lot to pay for the spear considering the cav has higher mobility.

[x-dANGEr]

That test is quite not efficient me thinks. An army VS army one would be better, since in that case, Catas can't just retreat, because the morale disadvantage then will more likely make them rout. Though, as I said, Catas maybe are too strong, but try Roman cav. (About the Desert Spearmen, well I'm really surprised they're 390 0-o)

[Puzz3D]

(charge/attack/defense)

Cataphract Cavalry ........... 9/7/23 cost 940
Praetorian Cavalry ............ 6/11/22 cost 840
Roman Legionary Cavalry ... 6/8/22 cost 790


The Roman cav looks like a better buy than the cata. The Praetorian cav actually beat cataphracts with a 2 to 1 kill ratio.

[barocca]

i think this thread took a left turn at alberquerky...

thumbnail click for large version


B.

[x-dANGEr]

(charge/attack/defense)

Cataphract Cavalry ........... 9/7/23 cost 940
Praetorian Cavalry ............ 6/11/22 cost 840
Roman Legionary Cavalry ... 6/8/22 cost 790


The Roman cav looks like a better buy than the cata. The Praetorian cav actually beat cataphracts with a 2 to 1 kill ratio.

No way.

[Puzz3D]

No way.

If you don't beleive me, run the test yourself. Take a Praetorian cav and walk towards a Cataphtact. I say walk because, if you charge, the Praetorian will win by a 3 to 1 margin. I'm not surprised the Praetorian wins because it has 33 combat points compared to the Cataphract's 30 combat points. I know this doesn't take into account the secondary weapon of the Cataphract.

Maybe someone will post the combat stats and costs of the Alexander units.

[x-dANGEr]

Take a cata unit and charge it into a praetorian cav unit..