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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Unhappy U.S. Embassy Report on Iraq -- Not So Upbeat

    The Washington Post got their dirty hands on a "sensitive" report from the U.S. Embassy in Iraq. You can read the full report here.

    It's a grim read. Comments, thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Washington Post
    Hours before President Bush left on a surprise trip last Monday to the Green Zone in Baghdad for an upbeat assessment of the situation there, the U.S. Embassy in Iraq painted a starkly different portrait of increasing danger and hardship faced by its Iraqi employees. This cable, marked "sensitive" and obtained by The Washington Post, outlines in spare prose the daily-worsening conditions for those who live outside the heavily guarded international zone: harassment, threats and the employees' constant fears that their neighbors will discover they work for the U.S. government.

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    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Embassy Report on Iraq -- Not So Upbeat

    Why do you hate freedom?
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Embassy Report on Iraq -- Not So Upbeat

    You know repeating Terrorist Propaganda is (probably by now) a criminal offence.

    Blast by blast, the number of Iraqis complaining about conditions is decreasing in Iraq. surely that counts for something??!?

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Embassy Report on Iraq -- Not So Upbeat

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    You know repeating Terrorist Propaganda is (probably by now) a criminal offence.

    Blast by blast, the number of Iraqis complaining about conditions is decreasing in Iraq. surely that counts for something??!?

    I think it does, Rory, but the USA has somewhere between 10 and 20 percent of the populace who believe any war is wrong --there version of a "just" war includes the direct defense of New Jersey and little else. This group revels in any information that suggests our failure in Iraq, since they hope to sway enough public opinion over to their view so as to have us cut and run. They take this stance on any and all military efforts overseas lasting longer than one missile salvo -- and would protest those if they had time to get a parade together. It is not "progressive" to remember that history's lessons include the all-too-frequent need to pay in blood to enact political policy.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Embassy Report on Iraq -- Not So Upbeat

    Democracies are very bad at aggressive wars. Hence the way this one was initially dressed up as defensive (rather like NATO in Afghanistan, I guess).

    Foreign policy doesn't excuse lying about how things are going, or how things are planned to go.

    So far, the concept of the war was a fiasco, the planning was dire and yes people are dying because of that. I personally think that failing to invade in 1991 was the biggest chance missed.

    The topic isn't concerning whether the USA should stay or flee, and nor should a report stating that things are getting worse be the cause of this.

    But if fighting a war relies on lying to the locals, the world and even the people in America then this needs to be reconsidered.

    If for example Americans are generally cowards then so be it. Fight no wars that take longer than a week. Fight through third parties and mercenaries. But know thyself and don't try to lie to thyself.

    Bush is there by the people for the people.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Embassy Report on Iraq -- Not So Upbeat

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
    But know thyself and don't try to lie to thyself.
    Excellent advice, Rory, but as a medical professional -- and well aware of just how many 12-step groups are out there -- you know that these two tasks are the most difficult ones we all face as individuals.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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