Different tactics for the English

[gaijinalways]

I'm currently playing an English GA campaign as a refresher course after a layoff from MTW for over a year and a half. I usually find the Welsh difficult to bribe, so I ended up overrunning Wales instead. I also took Flanders and Champagne, and Isle d'France (?).

Now the how is the interesting part. I have used mercenary troops while slowly putting out some troops of my own as well as capturing some buildings (such as a crossbow production site in Burgandy which the Germans happily gave me ). I started off attacking the French, until the pope warned me off, than switched to bothering the Germans. I considered also attacking the Italians, but held off, not wishing to create too many enemies at once.

My question is, how far should I take my combination of slash and burn and the occasional capture of a province? I currently have the above provinces as well as the starting areas except Anjou and another that I 'sacrifised' to take over Isle d'France and Champagne. I just took Switzerland recently and am debating whether to take it's neighboring province as well for the pikemen bonus (I think it's Trivolia, maybe?). I realize that the pikemen will not be useful until later, but in a GA campaign that is okay. I have yet to do a crusade, but it is only year 1114 I think, and I am slowly building up Wales and some of the more productive farming areas.

I have to also consider dropping some of my mercs, though their upkeep keeps dropping as they are lost to attrition , so they are serving their purpose.

[King Kurt]

How is your trade? I would build a fleet/trade network if you do not have one. This enables expansion into Scandanavia and the Iberian Penisula. Are you playing MTW or VI? If VI then no longbows/ bills until 1205, so in GA mode build your trade and expand slowly for a bill and bow blitzkreig come 1205. With a strong navy, Crusading becomes easier as otherwise you have to plod across Europe - good fun for stripping troops out of the other faction's armies, but somebody always ends up fighting you and it can be difficult to get to the Holy Land.
So broadly I would suggest some building with a few diversions before you come into your own in the 1200's.

[Ciaran]

I agree with King Kurt, if you plan on doing the Crusade goals, it´s important you get your navy set up. Your crusades stand a way better chance of being sucessful if they go by sea instead of land.

Having Switzerland is a great advantage, as from 1205 you´ll be able to recruit Swiss Halberdiers there, and they´re on par with the English Billmen (and since you´re playing the English, you´ve got the monopoly on good polearm units). Pikemen don´t come around until the start of the Late era in 1321, and they need too much of a buildup to be truly used in a regular way, so taking Tyrolia isn´t worth the trouble, in my opinion. Anyways, once they do come around, you can get Swiss Pikes and Swiss Armoured Pikes, and (I think) those are better than even the +1 valor pikemen you can get in Tyrolia.

[Sensei Warrior]

A fav strategy of mine is to take Toulouse (I think its Toulouse, its the Provence just above Aragon), which is a port Provence in the Med, and make it into a ship building city, along with a Chapter House. Start producing your ships in the interior of the Med to the Provences you plan on Crusading to. Once that is done, stage and launch Crusades from Toulouse straight to the Holy Lands.

You can get to the first provence with 7 ships. Once you can build ships and Crusades it will take 25 years for Toulouse to make the connection to Crusade objectives all by itself (21 years to build the ships + 4 years to build the Crusade). The rest of your provences can use that time to build up their infrastructure and the Crusading armies.

This is standard but don't forget to make nice efficient borders so you can use less men to protect them. I find the Friesland, Lorraine, Burgandy, Toulouse line very nice, but you have already pushed into Switz. Remember Navarre has Iron (I think) and Aragon can be annoying with all their Royal Knights.

Good Luck!

[ajaxfetish]

Another bonus to holding Toulouse would be that as soon as the High era rolls around, you get a nice valor bonus for your Chivalric knights there. Also, all the northern Spanish provinces have iron (Castile, Leon, Navarre, and Aragon), which can be very helpful, and you can build jinettes, which are nice for crusades in most if not all Iberian provinces).

Ajax

[Alexios]

if you plan on doing the Crusade goals, it's important you get your navy set up. Your crusades stand a way better chance of being sucessful if they go by sea instead of land.

I will second that (or am I the third now?). In order to succeed, you're gonna have to quickly take and retain command of the seas. Not only will this help your crusading, but it will also help you establish trade routes, thereby bringing in tons of cash to feed your efforts. I usually try and keep about 3 to 4 coastal provinces churning out ships throughout most of the game. And don’t make the mistake I made once - when it appeared I had established decent shipping lanes, I stopped cranking out the ships. No sooner did I do that when the Byz fleets came along and started blasting away everything I had. Just keep building them, and upgrade whenever new technology comes along.

Another thing I've noticed while playing the English - no matter what you do, you will never be friends with the French, HRE, or Spanish. So I try to eliminate the French as quickly as possible (thereby providing me with additional coastal provinces in which to build ships), then go after the HRE. After I've eliminated those two, I usually find that the AI will allow me to peacefully co-exist with the Italians, Sicilians, Poles, and the Papacy, as long as I don’t do anything to p--- off of the Pope, that is.

But the Spanish are a different bunch. As the English, I find them to be a constant pain in the rear-end. They will never leave you alone. They will constantly poke away at you. And I have found it difficult to eliminate them due to their formidable armies and the fact that the Pope will whine and complain anytime you take some action against them. So I try to build up strong fortifications as quickly as possible in Aquitaine and Tolouse, and maintain fairly sizeable defensive armies in those 2 provinces.

[Ciaran]

Yes, Navarra is a crucial province in the English campaign, it´s the only one with iron the English have quick access to and it´s rebel-controlled in the beginning. Tolouse is also good to capture once you´re at war with the French, both for the bonus on Chivalric Knights (if you´re in early try to build up Tolouse so you can get Chivalric Knights there as soon as High era starts) and for access to the Mediterrean. Aragon is a good province to capture as well, if need be, it gives you iron and rids you quickly of a rival faction which otherwise can be irritating you with raids.

[gaijinalways]

The trade aspect can be important, though surprisingly I have won campaigns on expert where I didn't really build up trade at all. The building up the navies for the crusades (and trade as an incidental for cash) is a good idea. Often crusades stall, so if I wish to get more points, it's a good point to bear in mind.

As to getting better provinces for resources, I am on my way. I am considering wiping the French out soon to get Anjou and Aquitaine (two of the provinces the English start with), but I may have to wait. I was considering wiping them out right away and taking on the pope, but I think I may change my strategy and take some rebel lands that appeared in Toulose and a neighboring province after I pushed the HRE around (who I am at peace with now) and finish sacking the Italians (poor Venice is still burning).

Thanx for the advice guys.

[caravel]

When dealing with the French it's important to remember that, Toulouse and Brittany are cut off so if you tackle these first the French will have difficulty in reinforcing them. I tend to start pushing out fyrdmen (VI only), hobilars and archers early on and concentrate mainly on economy. Once I'm strong enough I go for Toulouse followed by Brittany, then on to the rest of the french provinces. A common mistake is that some people go for Flanders inititially. The French can repeatedly launch recapture missions from Ille de France into Flanders then back door you from Brittany into Normandy, Anjou or Aquitaine, stretching your forces. The ideal first target for the French of course would be Anjou, cutting the English territory in half and uniting all of the French territory in one stroke. This is why you can't let this happen.

Navarre can be bribed and if you can also defeat Aragon in 1 sitting, you've got a very good southern border (the spanish will attempt to stab you in the back at some point).

[gaijinalways]

I took Flanders early, but it is the Germans who seem intent on taking Flanders. The French are pretty weak, now just in Britany and Anjou. I wanted to finish the French off, but the Pope warned me off, and I'm waiting for the warning time to finish. I am starting to build up, and possibly plan to disband my mercs after I finish ravaging Venice, unless the Italians beg to be punished some more . Switzerland is coming along and providing me good soldiers, and the xbowmen and royal knights are coming out of Burgandy and Tolouse. So, I'll keep building up reinforcements and soldiers, and ready for the crusades!

[gaijinalways]

Ah, have progressed further and angered the Polish and the Hungarians with some raiding, before returning my general to Venice which I decided to keep. I will need Trivola or Provance eventually to unite my territories, though my cash is after paying the 'leaving bonus' to my mercs!

[Alexios]

I was considering wiping them out right away and taking on the pope, but I think I may change my strategy and take some rebel lands that appeared in Toulose and a neighboring province after I pushed the HRE around (who I am at peace with now) and finish sacking the Italians (poor Venice is still burning).

Somebody can perhaps correct me here if I'm wrong, but there are occasions when you can get ex-commed for attacking a rebel province that was once controlled by a Catholic faction. In my last campaign, I could have sworn I got ex-commed once after attacking two rebel-held provinces, but I don't recall taking a hit to my loyalty or trade.

The way it happened was like this: I waited for the right moment for the Papacy to change hands. When it did, I launched a 4-province "blitzkrieg" against the Spaniards with 4 armies I had been assembling in Wessex. I won only 2 out of the 4 provinces; however, the other two went into rebellion. The Pope popped up and gave me the usual warning about "withdrawing your troops" and bla, bla, bla. A few years later, I attacked the remaining 2, at which point the Pope promptly popped up again and said I had been ex-commed for "waging war with my Catholic brethren," or something along those lines.

Anyway, I never thought you could get ex-commed for attacking a rebel province before (or did I just fall asleep late at night while playing and imagined it all in a dream??? ... quite possible).

[Martok]

Alexios, in situations like yours, the Pope still views those provinces as being owned by the Spanish, even though they're now "rebel". It's maybe just a bug, but I've had this happen to me once or twice as well (although it was a while ago).

[naut]

Wow, I never knew that could happen

[gaijinalways]

I'll have to watch that too as I plan to retake some rebel lands to reconnect my empire to Venice (either Milan or Provance), so it will be interesting to see if that might happen.

Incidentally, I revised my campaign and instead went and stopped a crusade trying to enter Toulose, and then attacked the Spanish and the Argonese and am swinging a second mercernary group from Venice into Rome with it now sieging the Papal States. Since I am excommed at the moment, I should probably retake one of the above rebel held provinces during the Pope's waning days !

[naut]

Since I am excommed at the moment, I should probably retake one of the above rebel held provinces during the Pope's waning days !

If your excommed you might as well take over as many of the surrounding catholic provences. But don't overextend your armies.

[Csargo]

and don't kill anybody that would be bad.

[Ciaran]

Somebody can perhaps correct me here if I'm wrong, but there are occasions when you can get ex-commed for attacking a rebel province that was once controlled by a Catholic faction. In my last campaign, I could have sworn I got ex-commed once after attacking two rebel-held provinces, but I don't recall taking a hit to my loyalty or trade.

The way it happened was like this: I waited for the right moment for the Papacy to change hands. When it did, I launched a 4-province "blitzkrieg" against the Spaniards with 4 armies I had been assembling in Wessex. I won only 2 out of the 4 provinces; however, the other two went into rebellion. The Pope popped up and gave me the usual warning about "withdrawing your troops" and bla, bla, bla. A few years later, I attacked the remaining 2, at which point the Pope promptly popped up again and said I had been ex-commed for "waging war with my Catholic brethren," or something along those lines.

Anyway, I never thought you could get ex-commed for attacking a rebel province before (or did I just fall asleep late at night while playing and imagined it all in a dream??? ... quite possible).

Did you bother to check what kind of rebels they were? Maybe, if they were those in a civil war, they´d still count as Spanish.

[Biggus Diccus]

BTW: Has anyone used Kerns with success in their English campaigns? I have tried to have them throw their spears in the rear of pinned french nobles, but I find it difficult to employ them properly.

[macsen rufus]

Kerns take some micromanagement - it's often necessary to take them off skirmish as they retreat quicker than they throw. Also for armoured targets bonnachts are better (but do you get them in MTW campaign or just VI? Can't honestly remember, sorry...)

[Martok]

Wow, I never knew that could happen

Neither did I at the time....

I'll have to watch that too as I plan to retake some rebel lands to reconnect my empire to Venice (either Milan or Provance), so it will be interesting to see if that might happen.

Fortunately, the phenomenon does seem to be pretty rare. Like I said, it only happened to me once or twice. I haven't seen it occur since I got Viking Invasion.

Speaking of which, what version of the game do you have, Rythmic?

[naut]

Speaking of which, what version of the game do you have, Rythmic?

VI 2.1, XL mod
VI 2.1, Super mod
VI 2.1, Hellenic mod
VI 2.1, Napoleonic mod
I'm yet to try PM:TW

Why do you ask?

[gaijinalways]

Ah, ran into trouble. Primarily, getting excommed of course drops the loyalty, enough that toward the end I lost Wales (autocalced the battle, wanted to see the world cup!), so I will have to replay from an earlier save. Also, what little trade I had was being lost coupled with 3 merc armies running wild killed my budget (hey, you guys are supposed to ravage and plunder my treasury! ).

So, instead, I plan to

1) Not allow the crusade into Tolouse, just use regular troops (no new mercs) and perhaps *attack the Aragonese as well, but see if I have enough troops to hold my border in Toulose.

2) Finish taking Venice to keep it and may still raid the neighboring Hungarian and Polish provinces until the Pope warns me off (one province each), but also disband the depleted merc units earlier as both the each of the neighboring provinces is weak and I don't need replacement units to defeat either of them.

3) Take Milan from the rebels (to connect Venice to my empire) , but using only my troops rather than mercs as the upkeep was too high (originally for taking Milan and assisting my 8 star general in Pope smashing).

4) Plan to attack the French later in Anjou and Aquitaine when the 10 years have expired (might be soon, maybe 2 years) to take back my original territories.

Building is ongoing and I may have to consider attacking the Germans at some point if I can organize a attack that doesn't leave me open to counterattacks.

5) Plan to start building shipyards and pump out ships for trade and crusades (will start on construction in the coming turn with plans 1#, 2#, and 3#).

[Martok]

VI 2.1, XL mod
VI 2.1, Super mod
VI 2.1, Hellenic mod
VI 2.1, Napoleonic mod
I'm yet to try PM:TW

Why do you ask?

I was suddenly curious as to whether the phenomenon was specific to the original game (sans VI), given that it never happened to me after I picked up the expansion pack. Apparently not, though!

1) Not allow the crusade into Tolouse, just use regular troops (no new mercs) and perhaps *attack the Aragonese as well, but see if I have enough troops to hold my border in Toulose.

You do realize not allowing the Crusade through will get you ex-commed as well, right? (I just ask since it sounded like you wanted to avoid that fate if possible.)

2) Finish taking Venice to keep it and may still raid the neighboring Hungarian and Polish provinces until the Pope warns me off (one province each), but also disband the depleted merc units earlier as both the each of the neighboring provinces is weak and I don't need replacement units to defeat either of them.

3) Take Milan from the rebels (to connect Venice to my empire) , but using only my troops rather than mercs as the upkeep was too high (originally for taking Milan and assisting my 8 star general in Pope smashing).

I would probably go with one or both of those strategies for now, and then see where you're at once you've got northern Italy settled down. Milan is a decent province, and if by taking it you can connect Venice to the rest of your kingdom *without* having to go to war with anyone else, you should definitely do it!

[gaijinalways]

Have changed direction and decided to replay with avoiding attacking a crusade or the Pope. The Spanish sent a crusade out by ship (thus avoiding my provinces), and I have taken Milan. I have also reattacked the French in Anjou and Britany (will see if I can get a king ) and am cruising through Eastern Europe with the Hungarians and Italians giving away a province each (similar to before, no mercs this time ) and now am attacking the Polish and am considering attacking the HRE, who I am currently allied with (so much for friends)!

So, I am building up enemies very quickly, though I am also building ships for future trade and crusades (as recommended by some earlier posts). One odd thing, when I attacked the Argonese, suddenly the Spanish didn't like me anymore. Anyone know why, maybe allied, (though it seemed like they were eyeing their property as well)?

I have a decent amount amount of cash, and am adding extra troops slowly as well as building up my farming in Flanders and Isle d'France, so should see positive cash changes later. Will probably build up Wales and Switzerland further (Switzerland is further along right now and closer to the current action). I'll give you an update later

[Sensei Warrior]

So, I am building up enemies very quickly, though I am also building ships for future trade and crusades (as recommended by some earlier posts). One odd thing, when I attacked the Argonese, suddenly the Spanish didn't like me anymore. Anyone know why, maybe allied, (though it seemed like they were eyeing their property as well)?

It seems that way in most of my games. If I attack the Argonese or even if they attack me, the Spanish start getting downright mean, especially if they have given the Almos the boot back to Morocco(sp?). Of course it also seems that if Spain has given the Almos the boot, they decide the next smartest move is to push into Europe . Now why the heck would they want to do that?

[gaijinalways]

Well the Spanish are at least neutral now (I have no allies ), but I am slowing building up my farming and navy (except for one ship sunk by the Italians). This was used as a pretext by the Germans to stop being allies (even though the Italians had refused several ceasefire treaties over some 15 odd years), and they preceded to attack me in Venice (routed them) and Milan (another rout, read about it in the suicide and bait thread). I am also purging the Germans mostly with my own troops (added only 3 merc units, 2 cavs and a foot soldier) to raze German provinces as a payback, but it is helping with two matters, weakening the German production facilities (I don't always wait to seige the fort, sometimes many buidings are destroyed already) and fattening my kitty without any battles. Just raze, move, intimidate, and move again. They probably will battle me soon again as I approach their larger provinces, but the Germans have a lot of lower tech units (in Venice they invaded with 1700 plus men, but I don't know how many were peasants, though they had a fair amount of archers and spearmen), and their chances of getting higher tech troops are slowly being destroyed as well as any cash producing elements they had.

Basically I haven't added many provinces, though am considering taking some German weakened provinces later and Aquitaine (still held by the Argonese, who also refuse my regularly refuse my cease fire offers). Of course, the Argonese are a nice buffer zone to the Spanish at the moment.

[caravel]

It seems that way in most of my games. If I attack the Argonese or even if they attack me, the Spanish start getting downright mean, especially if they have given the Almos the boot back to Morocco(sp?). Of course it also seems that if Spain has given the Almos the boot, they decide the next smartest move is to push into Europe . Now why the heck would they want to do that?

The Spanish have a tendancy to backdoor you when you're at war with another faction. Such is the AI...

[gaijinalways]

Decided to drop the Argonese, who are at death's door now as we speak. The Byz, who I had no contact beyond where they roared into Croatia, suddenly attacked my ships. So I entered Greece (vis Crotia) and it took a while to crush it, those Kats and Byz soldiers are tough (luckily only saw 8 varagian guards). Loyalists keep sprouting up too! So now I am wondering if I need to send some troops to rescue them, which may be difficult at the moment as they are on their way out via Bulgaria (no chance for Constanople, a real pity). Have to consider it after the Argonese are snuffed , getting some more mercs is costly, but the HRE peasants keep trying to come into 'my house' .

[gaijinalways]

Took the Aragonese territories and now trying to stregthen my borders. The Spanish turned down my overtures to be allies, but at the moment they seem to be recovering from the last Aloamond reemergence. I have joined my merc troops with my uber general (8 star) and plan to invade going back to Constinanople. Earlier I was near there, but I want to crush it after fighting to standoffs in Bulgaria and Croatia (and semi-razing Greece). Have longbow- men coming as well as arbalasters in Wales . Billmen are the next project, with pikemen aways off yet.