Byzantine question

[edyzmedieval]

Excuse me, but Skoutatoi are after Heraclius' period.

Normal phalanx, as we know it, it's definitely out of the period. The spearmen Heraclius' used were a sort of Roman Lanciarii with modified equipment, and trained differently, because they were the backbone of the army.

Rosacrux, Swiss Pikemen really formed a modern phalanx, trusting their pikes just like a phalanx, and on their flanks, they had musketeers to guard them.

A shield wall is totally different from a phalanx. A phalanx is a mass of 6m spears or iron Sarissa and men, gathered tight, to attack and defend at the same time. A shield wall is a complex "wall" of spears, which is much vulnerable than the phalanx, but much more mobile.

[Kralizec]

A shield wall is totally different from a phalanx. A phalanx is a mass of 6m spears or iron Sarissa and men, gathered tight, to attack and defend at the same time. A shield wall is a complex "wall" of spears, which is much vulnerable than the phalanx, but much more mobile.

The classical hoplite phalanx used spears of around 2-2.5 metres in lenght as a longer spear would not be managable single handed. Their argive shields, more generall known as hoplons, formed a wall of shields with the spears sticking out from above.
For other shield wall troops the equipment differed of course (armour and of course the shield), but the general idea is the same. Maybe other shield walls were better used in defense (the hoplite phalanx was definitely an offensive formation), but other then that I don't see any principal differences.

Excuse me, but Skoutatoi are after Heraclius' period.

Hmm, then that poses an interesting question: what were they?
Are you sure that the Skoutatoi were developed after his death, or just after his (wildly succesful) campaigns against Persia? After settling peace with the Persians most of the veteran troops were disbanded. Spearmen are relatively easy to train, maybe once the Arabs attacked they started training lots of infantry wich would later evolve into the Skoutatoi...

[Watchman]

I'm pretty sure the by that time still rather large Byzantine Empire could scratch together a force of decent armoured shieldwall spearmen from somewhere within or beyond its borders, especially since promising foreign mercenaries could if necessary be issued armour from Imperial arsenals. It's not like that sort of soldier was particularly rare or anything.

[matteus the inbred]

Hmm, then that poses an interesting question: what were they?

I'm referring here to a wargaming army list based entirely on primary sources (so, mainly the Strategikon and sources up to Anna Comnena)...the skoutatoi seem to have evolved from what sounds almost like late legionaries:
'...with big shields, short spears, swords and sometimes weighted lead darts...nominal depth for skoutatoi was 16 ranks, Book 12 Chapter 7 of the Strategikon makes it plain that the normal combat depth was eight ranks when resisting cavalry and four when attacking...'

They would apparently fix spear butts and fight overhead with spears when defending and throw spears and then charge with swords when attacking, again, quite 'legionary' in style, rather than phalanx-like. After the Heraclean/Maurikian period, relying on the Taktika of Leon VI, skoutatoi '...were now armed with 14ft pikes and normally formed 16 ranks deep, with front ranks [armoured]...'. They were supported by archers.
By the Nikephorian period, moving into the middle ages, skoutatoi seem to have been more lightly armoured still, with shields and long pikes, and now seem to be deployed in mixed formations with archers, as the Byzantine infantry began to switch to self-supported archers.
By the Konstantinian period in the 11th century, the skoutatoi were now called kontaratoi (although they don't seem to have changed role or armament). Anna Comnena seems to consider them to be poorly equipped spearmen. They now seem to have been deployed separately from the archers, who co-operated more closely with the cavalry. In later lists after Manzikert they seem to have died out. So there you have it...I think they started out as close combat troops with an anti-cavalry emphasis and ended up supporting the archers.

Back to the original query, I can find no mention of 'Faranji' anywhere as a troop type. If this refers to 'foreign' (ie, non-Greek troops) it could be many units as the Byzantines increasingly used mercs and odd foreign troops. I appreciate the point that it's different from 'Franj', or Franks (usually called Latinikon by Greek writers). So if it does refer to a formation, I think it probably is the skoutatoi.

[Kralizec]

Interesting...I thought Byzantine troops never used pikes.

[matteus the inbred]

Interesting...I thought Byzantine troops never used pikes.

Well, so did I! It's possible that these were simply long spears (yes, I know that pretty much defines a pike, but it's more a question of how they were used!). The first couple of ranks apparently were meant to fix the spearbutts into the ground when on the defensive, but phalanx tactics or 'push of pike' are not mentioned.
It could be that this detail comes from visual sources that exaggerate or misrepresent, but I think it's from written sources. It sounds more similar in my mind to the 15th century Italian condottieri civic/militia troops who used a couple of ranks of pikemen with pavises to support archers or crossbows.

[Leet Eriksson]

I think, take it with a grain of salt though, that faranji could have been the arabic term of phalanx or phalange.

He named the unit based on the formation however. It could have a different name in greek/byzantine terms.

[edyzmedieval]

The classical hoplite phalanx used spears of around 2-2.5 metres in length

My bad, that's 6 feet.

Hmm, then that poses an interesting question: what were they?
Are you sure that the Skoutatoi were developed after his death, or just after his (wildly succesful) campaigns against Persia? After settling peace with the Persians most of the veteran troops were disbanded. Spearmen are relatively easy to train, maybe once the Arabs attacked they started training lots of infantry wich would later evolve into the Skoutatoi...

Skoutatoi were developed after his death, evolving from normal spearmen infantry, to backbone army soldiers in the time of Basil II Bulgaroctonus and Alexius I Komnen.

What I'm saying is the fact that Skoutatoi weren't the Skoutatoi we all know, they were still Roman-Greek spearmen, armed like Roman Lanciarii. Heraclius slowly transformed the army into one big Greek army, but he ONLY STARTED THE HELLENIZING PROCESS.