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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gayness May Be Linked to Conditions in Womb

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    let me see if I got this straight - you hate your father much and think he hurt you a lot until he was kicked out, so you want some children to have two fathers??!!! The nuclear family works well if people choose their partners well and neither is into drugs or mentally ill. Crime, suicide and misery is more common in families with divorced parents according to many studies. It's a responsibility you have as a parent that you choose a partner who would make a good father/mother and that you know you can be together with for the rest of your life when you are to get children.
    Oh, these days I just kind of detest him and have slight difficulties being wholly polite to him. He makes a reasonably useful source of money though, and I don't even need to feel one bit bad about it since he never ever paid any of those whatchamacallit payments to help Mom support us he was supposed to in the first place.
    Some people.

    Besides, it ought to really tell something that where divorce is an option - de facto and de jure - it also gets done. A lot. And when it first becomes a viable option the rates go through the roof when couples that no longer have any reason to stay together make use of it. So much for the workability of the nuclear family.

    Anyway, in the case you missed it my main point was the Good Old Nuclear Family isn't exactly the quarantee of happiness and joy you seem to think it is. Since hetero pairs (and to a lesser degree single parents) have for a long time had a monopoly on screwing up their kids, I don't really see why same-sex couples shouldn't be allowed to try. Chances are they're not going, and won't be able, to do any worse anyway.

    Besides, since homosexuals may also have children from other instances - for example made the old-fashioned way for one reason or another - anyway the point is a bit moot. Heck, even if you deny same-sex couples the right to a legally binding marriage or something comparable there isn't much you can do about them cohabitating simply without such ceremonials either, and as mentioned it is wholly withing the realm of possibility one or both of them may already have kids... All of which makes your whining about gay couples' adoption rights seem a little odd, and gives me the sneaking suspicion if possible you would actually want to ban them to right to have and/or raise children, however aquired, in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    Why not begin at the top if there's so much to choose from you could at least give an example?
    Well, for starters you seem curiosuly fixated on supposedly or allegedly homosexual pedophiles and largely ignoring the little detail there's absolutely no quarantee heterosexuals - single or couples - who adopt children might not horribly mistreat them and/or fall guilty of outright incest, or for that matter might fall guilty of any of that with their own biological children. Which, for that matter, was the reality of such cases back when homosexuality was still criminalized.

    Then there's the whole "but think of the children1!!!1!!!1" attitude in the first place. Because you know something ? That's what narrow-minded, prejudiced reactionaries pretty much without fail dig up as a blunt instrument against their little hates. It doesn't matter if it's Elvis, women's suffrage or Pokemon, sure as the sun rises some twerp will crawl out of the woodwork and throw the "for the sake of the kids" argument for it. And curiously enough, in hindsight that always tends to be found out to have been blatant alarmism.

    Then there's the persistent, blatantly biased and clearly tendentious habit of associating homosexuality with pedophilia. Which just plain stinks of an attempt at associating your pet hate with something sufficiently reprehensible. Kind of the way back in the Middle Ages and later people couldn't settle for just hating Jews, they had to come up with all the kooky stories about sacrificing children and whatever to justify it and goad themselves into even greater heights of, ah, righteous fury.

    To boot your dodgy historical references lack both merit and information base. Do you even realize marriage was quite often done in a way that these days would be considered little sort of institutionalized pedophilia ? It might well be norm for girls in their early teens, or even younger, to be married to men over thirty or so; this was the practice in Early-High Medieval Northern Italian city-states for example. It wasn't exactly uncommon either for even very young girls (and sometimes boys too) to be raped by pretty certifiably heterosexual soldiers when cities were being sacked and countryside ravaged, for that matter.

    But no, you keep claiming links to homosexuality.
    Last edited by Watchman; 06-30-2006 at 13:24.
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