Volga-Bulgarian ideal line-up

[Odin]

I was thinking something along the lines of:

8 units of steppe heavy cavalry
4 units of steppe cavalry
3 units of Kazanchis ( pole arm infantry)
1 general probably Bulgarian royal cavalry (prince)

My army consists 4 groups of 2 SHC and 1 SC and 1 group of general and pole arms.

What do you think? Any suggestions?

I think this is a fine strategy but as mentioned by someone else, those SC arent much good in a fight unless valored up. My preference would be to use them as flanking units and pursuit, and maybe melee with foot missle units.

I read your other posts, and having played this faction myself I took some serious losses when the mongols showed up. I know thats a way away, but if your going to consolidate and build up some provinces you might consider thier enevitable arrival. In my campaign I took moscow and made it my capital, I built it up and made it a fortress. I lost Volga bugaria, and some of Cuman territories I took unlong the black sea.

I was able to refit and regroup with Moscow and the two other western russian provinces(there names escape me now) and take Kiev and push back along the black sea south while maintaining a defensive war in the North.

Good luck.

[Peasant Phill]

thanks Odin.

I know a little about the SC and was planning on using them as bait, rout chasers and to strike weak units fast.

to third spearman on the left:
Bulgarian Royal Cavalry: 8 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 8 ( charge/melee/defence/morale)
Steppe Heavy Cavalry: 6 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 7

They are much alike (which can be seen in their recruitement cost)with a slight advantage to BRC for their better charge and moral. But it doesn't justify (atleast not for me) the much higher upkeep (more than double) and the fact that SHC have missiles to.

I'm planning on building up Volga-Bulgaria and Khazar to at least a citadel and let them waste most of their forces on the assault (can they appear in Georgia to?). To be honest it will be the first time I'll meet the Horde on their appearance so it will be a huge challenge. I'm still a bit worried so I'll use a cheesy tactic and evacuate most units in V-B and Khazar around the time the Horde arrives so I'll face a smaller force. It's my first time so I prefer it gentil ;)

[Geezer57]

Bulgarian Royal Cavalry: 8 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 8 ( charge/melee/defence/morale)
Steppe Heavy Cavalry: 6 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 7

They are much alike (which can be seen in their recruitement cost)with a slight advantage to BRC for their better charge and moral. But it doesn't justify (atleast not for me) the much higher upkeep (more than double) and the fact that SHC have missiles to.

I strongly agree with PP on this, and would like to point out that it should be easier with the Steppe Heavies to tech up to Master Horse Breeder (Royals require the xxx Court series of buildings, IIRC, which don't give valor bonuses), and produce them at +1 valor. Once you reach that point, the SHC become clearly superior to BRC in combat, with a nice cost bonus as extra!

[Third spearman from the left]

Hey Phil,
I can see from the stats what you mean but for me the BRC seemed to have that bit more in the crunch. Maybe for me it was just that I got luckly with good v&v's for valor or stars for command with BRC over SHC. As long as you have a good mix you will be fine. As for the Horde yes your right it is 1230 and they can appear in Aremina just below Georgia. But that time will fly and they can rip your empire to shreds as they did mine for a time. Even a small horde is deadly, even more so when they land right on your doorstep.

I'll post screen shots tomorrow.

[Aenlic]

Phil, I've been playing the Volga Bulgars quite a lot recently in XL. I think you're on the right track.

But don't forget your bashkorts! They are amazingly cheap for what they can do. They have a better charge bonus than your kazanchis (5 compared to 2); and although they lack the armor piercing of the kazanchis and have lower melee and honor numbers, they have a much better defense bonus against cavalry (4, the same as the kursabays, as opposed to the 1 of the kazanchis). They're really wonderful troops, especially considering their having projectiles with the short throwing spears.

Money is always going to be a problem as the Volga Bulgars unless you can manage to take Novgorod. Novgorod is the richest of the steppe provinces and also gives you access to sea lanes for trading. As the VB, I always try to take Novgorod as soon as possible to have income. Even with that though, you're going to be hurting for cash until you can get some sea trade flowing and build up your farming in multiple provinces.

When the Mongol horde appears, it will mostly be in Khazar. Sometimes, there will also be smaller hordes in Armenia. I don't think I've ever seen them appear in Georgia; but if a horde group appears in Armenia, then you can bet they'll attack Georgia to link up with the Khazar group.

Another factor which seems to affect the horde appearance is the total number of troops fielded by the faction which owns Khazar. If you have fewer troops, fewer horde will appear. Once, I let Khazar rebel. The turn before the horde appeared, the Cumans, who had been wiped out, reappeared in Khazar which they briefly owned early in the game. The Cumand reappeared as a half stack against the rebel half-stack, and they set about besieging the rebels. So, when the Mongols appeared the next turn there was a brand new half-stack of Cumans with a half-stack of rebels in the fort. The grand total of the "vast" Mongol horde which appeared was 4 stacks.

[Peasant Phill]

But don't forget your bashkorts! They are amazingly cheap for what they can do. They have a better charge bonus than your kazanchis (5 compared to 2); and although they lack the armor piercing of the kazanchis and have lower melee and honor numbers, they have a much better defense bonus against cavalry (4, the same as the kursabays, as opposed to the 1 of the kazanchis). They're really wonderful troops, especially considering their having projectiles with the short throwing spears.

Thanks Aenlic, I didn't know that. I assumed that bashkorts were just another cheap shockunit that would struggle after the initial charge. Stupid of me (even more as I comared the SHC and BRC) not to check the unit stats. I've conquered the province (Levidea IIRC) that gives them a valour bonus so they will shine more.
Although Kazanchis will become more useful/better as time goes by and more armoured troops join the battle.

Money is always going to be a problem as the Volga Bulgars unless you can manage to take Novgorod. Novgorod is the richest of the steppe provinces and also gives you access to sea lanes for trading. As the VB, I always try to take Novgorod as soon as possible to have income. Even with that though, you're going to be hurting for cash until you can get some sea trade flowing and build up your farming in multiple provinces.

I don't have the military strenght at the moment to attack Novgorod, but They are my first target if I don't attack the Kievians first for strategical reasons (a bulge in my borders).
I have a acces to the sea now with Lesser Khazaar, Levidea and Crimmea and a shiplink to Constantinople. It helps a little but my ports in Crimmea and Levidea aren't finished yet. Once the moneyflow increases I'll build more ships to get as far as Egypt or Italy.

Another factor which seems to affect the horde appearance is the total number of troops fielded by the faction which owns Khazar. If you have fewer troops, fewer horde will appear. Once, I let Khazar rebel. The turn before the horde appeared, the Cumans, who had been wiped out, reappeared in Khazar which they briefly owned early in the game. The Cumand reappeared as a half stack against the rebel half-stack, and they set about besieging the rebels. So, when the Mongols appeared the next turn there was a brand new half-stack of Cumans with a half-stack of rebels in the fort. The grand total of the "vast" Mongol horde which appeared was 4 stacks.

I didn't know that. Oh well I'll my Khanate will survive it and if not I'll start another campaign