romani

would just be curios to know whether there is actually any gameplay or unit differences between the polybian reforms and the start (cammillian?) units and gameplay?

im coming up to them and i dont see any changes?

any info?

cheers in advance

toxic

Polybian gives them swords.

LOL. Nope. The differences are in armour, morale (trainning), attack, defense, etc...

It reflects the continuing evolution from the levied armies to more semi-professional armies.

ah ok so i basicly get a bit tougher in the old sword arm and cup department?

thats good, im about to take on gaul and makidonia,

will i have to build new units for this to take affect? or will exsisting be upgraded? as i have over 200,000 at the moment but some very experianced troops (yes im boasting,first time ever ive had this much on EB and no money cheats either)

also how come one general still has the old corvinas or something, whilst all my other generals have the newer singal bodyguards? (this is all pre-polybian so far)

Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri

LOL. Nope. The differences are in armour, morale (trainning), attack, defense, etc...

It reflects the continuing evolution from the levied armies to more semi-professional armies.

On a gameplay level, the Polybian legion is better equiped thanks to the adoption of chainmail, the Iberian short sword and the four-horned saddle. I suppose the increased wealth of Rome made this equipment upgrade possible. Also, the greater empire meant that Roman armies needed to be in the field longer, thus turning the temporary levy into a more permanent, and thus more professional, army, although they still would be disbanded after a campaign. In general, Polybian troops will be thougher and deadlier, though the Trairii will lose some of their flair. Also, your light troops (accensi, level, rorarii) will all be replaced by velites.

Originally Posted by toxicseagull

will i have to build new units for this to take affect? or will exsisting be upgraded? as i have over 200,000 at the moment but some very experianced troops (yes im boasting,first time ever ive had this much on EB and no money cheats either)

No, it is impossible to upgrade existing troops.

Originally Posted by toxicseagull

also how come one general still has the old corvinas or something, whilst all my other generals have the newer singal bodyguards? (this is all pre-polybian so far)

I think this is a known bug. IIRC Equites Singulares are post-Marian.

oh really? *giggles* arnt i the naughty one then?

so i will have to build new units? ah well.... they can die for rome as they have fought.

Originally Posted by toxicseagull

ah ok so i basicly get a bit tougher in the old sword arm and cup department?

Yes, and in regard to the Triarii it's the passage from the phalanx to the more flexible manipular formation.

Originally Posted by toxicseagull

thats good, im about to take on gaul and makidonia,

will i have to build new units for this to take affect? or will exsisting be upgraded? as i have over 200,000 at the moment but some very experianced troops (yes im boasting,first time ever ive had this much on EB and no money cheats either)

They are different units, therefore they cannot be upgraded. Upgrading units is hard-coded. Only CA can do that.

Originally Posted by toxicseagull

also how come one general still has the old corvinas or something, whilst all my other generals have the newer singal bodyguards? (this is all pre-polybian so far)

Because General's and Officers (centurions and signifiers) haven't been updated with the new models and skins. You must remember that EB 0.74 is a BETA, not a final GOLD release. 0.8 will take care of that. All Roman Generals and officers have been updated for our next internal release.

Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri

All Roman Generals and officers have been updated for our next internal release.

As well as one Hellenic general (not saying which). And he is magnificent! (and the celtic ones of course too!)

sounds great guys, and aymar dont worry i know its a beta, its brilliant, very stable (0.74) as well, first time ive given the romani a try thats all :)

keep going all of you, its fantastic, ive been playing it for about half a year now (basicly until it was stable enough), im really excited about the 0.8 port.

Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

As well as one Hellenic general (not saying which). And he is magnificent! (and the celtic ones of course too!)

I'm guessing Baktria, or rather hoping Baktria .

It's been a while and I confess I never acting got the reforms in game (too many CTDs), but browsing the EDU and previews there did seem to be some nuanced changes between the Camillan and Polybian units.

One is with the triarii - as has been said, they go from being phalanx to spearmen; they also lose their breastplate and AFAIK are a little "downgraded" in stats (Qwerty is tweaking them to be less godlike). My feeling is that in RTW in general, phalanxes are great infantry killers - at least against the AI. You can line them up and crush non-phalanxes with impunity. So the early triarii are a good counter to infantry elites like gestatae (ok, it would take forever to kill them, but they are very good for pinning them to allow javelins and cavalry charges to the back). Perhaps perversely, I don't find phalanxes to be very good against cavalry - they are too slow to catch them and, in vanilla, they have the distressing habit of becoming disordered and switching to swords (maybe different in EB if early triarii lack swords). By contrast, in RTW, I think spears are often inferior against infantry but - in the right conditions - good against cavalry. So, I would be tempted to use late triari in a counter-cavalry role and less gung-ho with them against infantry.

The other change I noted was the principes lose their spears. For the reason given earlier, I think this would mean they get rather better against infantry and rather worse against cavalry. That probably does not affect gameplay too much, though, as the late ones are still beefy enough to take a cavalry charge while likewise the early ones are a match for most infantry.

I am not sure when the velites appear - if they replace the levees with the reform, then that would be a rear powering up of Roman skirmishers in terms of their melee potential.

Originally Posted by econ21

I am not sure when the velites appear - if they replace the levees with the reform, then that would be a rear powering up of Roman skirmishers in terms of their melee potential.

IIRC, Velites replace Rorarii, Leves and Accenci. They are the Polybian successor the these Camilian units.

Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri

IIRC, Velites replace Rorarii, Leves and Accenci. They are the Polybian successor the these Camilian units.

It would be a shame to lose the slingers - I love them.

The velites are superior to leves, so that's a boon.

I find it hard to find a role for rorarii, so would not miss them.

Originally Posted by toxicseagull

also how come one general still has the old corvinas or something, whilst all my other generals have the newer singal bodyguards? (this is all pre-polybian so far)

I think you mean that the original generals have equites consulares bodyguards, while all new ne have equites singulares as bodyguards, not that the general models itself. That's a known bug, you can fix it by changing their position in EDU.

ah very informative :) cheers.

yes i need those slingers, they've taken out 3 units of elephants for me that would of seriously hurt my army's in greece :( gota crush cartho quickly then ....eeek

If you put in level 4 gov'ts in Southern Italy and Sicily, you get some pretty decent Greek units, including not only Slingers, but also your very own Archers (not the best, but who are you to complain? The Romani don't have any native archers at all!) and Taxeis Hoplitai and Peltastai, who make very good auxiliaries, not to mention excellent garrison troops, to replace the Roarii.

Originally Posted by Zorba

...Taxeis Hoplitai and Peltastai, who make very good auxiliaries, not to mention excellent garrison troops, to replace the Roarii.

Taxeis Hoplitai and Toxotai replace the Roarii as my garrisons once I secure the southern Italian provinces and have real walls on my other cities; the Roarii are just 'warm bodies' in my experience.

On the subject of Roman garrisons - are there any "Cohortes Vigilum" units after the Imperial reforms to be used to keep rebellious cities under control?

There are Vigiles, yes.

Originally Posted by toxicseagull

ah ok so i basicly get a bit tougher in the old sword arm and cup department?

thats good, im about to take on gaul and makidonia,

man i took on Arverni, aedui. sweboz, karthadastim,koinnon hellenon, makedonia, and the Rebels at the same time before the polybian reforms...by the polybian i had anialated the koinon hellenon, sweboz, and arverni...only the makedonians made me think twice before an attack... power is nothing..it's the way you use it that matters...

lol ive taken greece and all the settlements along the sea up to byzantium. i have two full stacks as conquering army's one full stack guarding my north, im funding the arverni when they get in trouble (so far they are not gaining or loosing ground agasint the aedui, im thinking of either taking cartho etc or heading north to wipe out the sweboz before they get any money behind them

Originally Posted by econ21

It would be a shame to lose the slingers - I love them.

The velites are superior to leves, so that's a boon.

I find it hard to find a role for rorarii, so would not miss them.

Accensi stay with Polybian. Leves and Rorarii go.

Rorarii are great for blocking enemy cavalry because their formation is so dense. I generally put a unit of rorarii on each legion's flank to take the brunt of any charging enemy flanking unit. They are also good for soaking up enemy javelins or shot.

Originally Posted by blacksnail

Accensi stay with Polybian. Leves and Rorarii go.

Rorarii are great for blocking enemy cavalry because their formation is so dense. I generally put a unit of rorarii on each legion's flank to take the brunt of any charging enemy flanking unit. They are also good for soaking up enemy javelins or shot.

So like Trithemius, warm bodies.....or cannon fodder is another term that you could use.

Originally Posted by vizigothe

So like Trithemius, warm bodies.....or cannon fodder is another term that you could use.

Javelin, sling-shot and arrow fodder would be more appropriate...

Originally Posted by vizigothe

So like Trithemius, warm bodies.....or cannon fodder is another term that you could use.

Pretty much, yeah. I tend to go by the personality of the general as to how much open contempt he has for the rorarii.