Ulrich, Basso suspended from Tour de France

[Mount Suribachi]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/othe...ng/5132320.stm


Oh dear oh dear.....

[The Wizard]

Wasn't it pending the investigation by Spanish authorities regarding activities in last year's Vuelta?

[Dutch_guy]

Well at least the little fishes have a better chance now....

Other than that, it's a real shame, but then again - do we want to have drug addicts in the tour (which to be fair, hasn't been concluded as of yet).

[Big_John]

looks like lance got out while the gettin' was good.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf200...ory?id=2505973

tour de france might actually be interesting to follow now that some of the major dopers (lance included, don't act like you didn't lance) are gone.

[littlelostboy]

Wow, that's a lot of cyclist out of the race.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
I can't ride a bike.
.

[Csargo]

.
I can't ride a bike.
.

Yes you can just get some training wheels. I'm still on a four wheeler myself.

[Ayachuco]

I know how to ride bikes. Its fun. all yas doin is just balancin yourself.

[doc_bean]

tour de france might actually be interesting to follow now that some of the major dopers (lance included, don't act like you didn't lance) are gone.

Bleh, this just means the ones using the better stuff are still in.

Besides they never caught Lance, and God knows the French tried

[Peasant Phill]

The problem is that blood doping (is this the right term in English) isn't detectable if it isn't strange blood (blood other than that of the user) that is used. So I don't think that Lance used something different, only that he was more careful or lucky.

Besides I find it very strange that a lot of helpers of Armstrong never performed after they went to another team as they did when they were members of US postal or discovery channel. Besides some of them were caught later on using doping.

some info on blood doping

the theory:
the more red bloodcells you have in your blood, the more oxygen is transported to your muscles. More oxygen in the muscles means better performances.
So by keeping some blood and injecting it before a ride, more red bloodcells will be present in the body. And because the blood is of the person in question it can't be detected.

the procedure:
About a 1/2 liter of blood is tapped during a trainingperiod. The blood is frozen for keeping and later injected before a major race. This will grant the 'user' 10% more red bloodcells and a hematocryte level somewhere near 50 (legally allowed level). In theory the blood can be injected right before the race as it takes only half an hour.

[doc_bean]

I find the whole red bloodcell thing a bit overrated though. Poor people shoot up, rich athletes sleep in an oxygen chamber, pretty much the same effect...

[Big_John]

i think doping is done via hormones (like EPO) nowadays. it's 'detectable' in a sense, because the UCI (union cycliste internationale) just uses some arbitrary cut-off for max cell percentage in blood samples. if you're doping, you're ratio of cells to "liquid" in the blood will be over the limit, ideally.

[JAG]

I think this just goes to show how obvious it is that Lance Armstrong used drugs. Let me get this straight, he could beat into 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th cyclists who were not only incredibly talented but were also on drugs, by huge margins even when much older - not to mention the fight back from... Cancer - yet he was never on drugs?!

Oh come on. He clearly was, just like it was obvious some of the other hard hitters were, it has been a big time problem for a fair few years now.

[Big_John]

jag, some people are just genetic freaks.. so anything is possible. but i think he was probably doping among other things.

[Fragony]

.
I can't ride a bike.
.

It's so easy mia muca, once you are in motion it's almost impossible to fall.

[Red Peasant]

I thought that Armstrong had been cleared, again and again. Where is your proof? Put up or shut up I say.

However, if you think of it, even if he did do what you are saying he did he still beat rivals who were also doing it, hence the playing field was level and he still won all those titles.

[doc_bean]

I find the jealousy/envy/hate towards Armstrong rather sickening. he was the best, no drug is going to turn an ordinary man into a superman. He probably took some stuff during training, and he probably did some things that weren't illegal *yet*. But he was still the best, miles ahead of his closet rivals. The closest thing to a Merckx of this age (who incidentally, always said he didn't do anything illegal because what he did wasn't illegal back then...).

They never caught him and he was checked up on far more than anyone else in the Tour (the French didn't seem to like an American dominating their Tour).

[Fragony]

I find the jealousy/envy/hate towards Armstrong rather sickening.

He is a great sportsman no doubt, but I find him extremily unsympathatic.

[Dutch_guy]

He is a great sportsman no doubt, but I find him extremily unsympathatic.

I don't know but I always found him to be quite sympathetic, which he might not seem to be if you believe just about every French newspaper...

I tend to agree with you Doc. I don't like the hostility shown towards Armstrong one bit, he won the Tour more than any other man ever did, naturally people doubt he did it clean - but he was never caught, while he was checked more than any other competitor. The man deserves more respect than he is given by certain people, in my opinion that is.

[naut]

I don't know but I always found him to be quite sympathetic, which he might not seem to be if you believe just about every French newspaper...

I tend to agree with you Doc. I don't like the hostility shown towards Armstrong one bit, he won the Tour more than any other man ever did, naturally people doubt he did it clean - but he was never caught, while he was checked more than any other competitor. The man deserves more respect than he is given by certain people, in my opinion that is.

Agreed.

The man went through alot and was put through alot. People can think what they want, but the fact remains that he has won it more times than anyone else.

[cutepuppy]

Well at least the little fishes have a better chance now....

Other than that, it's a real shame, but then again - do we want to have drug addicts in the tour (which to be fair, hasn't been concluded as of yet).

if you don't want drug addicts in the tour, you'll have no tour.
Not many other professional sporting events either.

[doc_bean]

teh merge ?

[Mount Suribachi]

I think this just goes to show how obvious it is that Lance Armstrong used drugs. Let me get this straight, he could beat into 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th cyclists who were not only incredibly talented but were also on drugs, by huge margins even when much older - not to mention the fight back from... Cancer - yet he was never on drugs?!

Oh come on. He clearly was, just like it was obvious some of the other hard hitters were, it has been a big time problem for a fair few years now.

As Big_John intimated, some people are just genetic freaks. As a young man, a sports science clinic measured the ability of his blood to carry oxygen - it was the highest level they ever recorded

He was a world champion at 22 (youngest ever!)

As a teenager he was a champion triathlete, competing against grown men. One of the big parts of his success post-cancer was all the "triathlete muscle" weight he lost, which is blatantly obvious looking at pre and post cancer pictures of him. Cycling up Alpe d'Huez is a damn sight easier when you're 14lbs lighter

He is a very angry, very driven man. Reading his books was very similar to reading Roy Keanes book, they both have a deep-rooted desire to prove others wrong and a will to win that keeps them going when the hearts of other men would fail.

He had a very, very good team. Riders that would be team leaders on other teams, were reduced to being domestiques on US Postal/Discovery

He's been lucky, by his own admission. Avoiding crashes when rivals haven't and the like.

Cancer changes people. My dad has fought 4 bouts of Cancer in the last 5 years, and I have seen with my own eyes how it changed him. Already quite a focussed and determined man, he became even more so (my dad that is).

When all is said and done, the Tour is an endurance sport. As a former cross-country runner myself, I know they are about heart, desire, determination and willpower as much as they are about heart rate and lung capacity. His first few victories he beat the opposition that bad that all he had to do after that to do was match his rivals until they gave up realising that resistance is futile as it were. My favourite Lance moments are those when his rivals challenged him, attacked him, and Lance would just respond, match them, stay with them, almost taunting them with a "is that all you got?" Inside he may have been hurting like hell, but he never let them see, always looked cool. The only exeption would have been his 5th win, when he really struggled.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I'm way ahead of you.

[Papewaio]

Cancer changes people. My dad has fought 4 bouts of Cancer in the last 5 years, and I have seen with my own eyes how it changed him. Already quite a focussed and determined man, he became even more so (my dad that is).

Indeed it does. Every year when I got my checkups it helped me focus on what I really wanted to achieve. Now that I am on to once only every two years I have noticed that without the checkup I'm not quite as focused, angry at the world yet determined etc

I asked Wasabi out while I was going through my first treatment phase. Normally I wouldn't have, but I figured what the heck do I have to lose?Luckily for myself mine was the most mild form of skin cancer you can get, but while waiting for the biopsys to come through it really did add to my focal ability, and it still does when I am reminded of it.

My favourite Lance moments are those when his rivals challenged him, attacked him, and Lance would just respond, match them, stay with them, almost taunting them with a "is that all you got?" Inside he may have been hurting like hell, but he never let them see, always looked cool. The only exeption would have been his 5th win, when he really struggled.

After going through a painful experience emotionally, mentally and physically it can make someone a lot tougher or it could make them more crystal like and prone to shatter. It would be obvious to most that it made Lance a tough son of a gun.

[orangat]

At the elite level of athletics where Lance and all the rest are at, its more of a question about who has never been on drugs and steroids.

And its alot of sour grapes where Lance is concerned. Lance has always tested clean even after being singled out for extra testing. It seems like the Europeans can't admit that Lance has superior genetics and is simply the superior athlete regardless of whether he doped or not.