Conservative Club XIV

[Vladimir]

The Conservative Club XIV thread aka The Let's Bait JAG thread. Come here little fishy

[Big_John]

as short-sighted and pitiable as conservatives tend to be.. i have no problem with them segregating themselves to adimre eachother, or whatever the purpose of threads like this are.

however, JAG has a point. to start a thread on a public game forum with the intent of excluding other members is a bit off. sure E asked nicely, kind of*, but you can't really expect any recourse when non-conservatives crash a 'private' party held on public grounds.




*"hippies"?

[Vladimir]

A more accurate phrase for Neo-cons is Old-libs. Or as at least one Old-lib neo-con changed his title to, Neo-Wilsonian. Some asian guy, I guess he's seen the wisdom of ineffective foreign policy and segregation.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Excuse me, but Aenlic pointed out that you have Cheetos here...


*Grabs the bag and runs*

[Redleg]

Ah I am rather amused once again.

[Proletariat]

Threads like this are dumb. If a liberal started something like this and requested non-leftists keep out, the first thing I'd do was spam some Coulter and Limbaugh all over it. E's asking for it, no doubt. JAG's stolen the show here though with his reflexive political thought process, as if he'd unload that crock on any other sort of politically focused e-club back here other than a conservative one.

[IrishArmenian]

If I am a religious conservative, yet somewhat liberal politcs-thinker, does that make me eligible?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, I couldn't say. We're a diverse bunch.

I think the core would be supporting capitalism in general over socialism, and, well, I'd say small government but lately our 'conservative' pres hasn't lived up to that. In America, being conservative also generally means being against abortion, for traditional values, against gay marriage, against taxes, individual responsibility, and probably some others I forgot.

I, personally, support capitalism, very little government inference or regulation of your life, am a believer in tradition and I am religious.

Should something come of this thread, the most important thing might be if you want to join. It seems to me that you support what we Americans call 'gun rights' and individual freedom, so you can't be as bad as a lot of the lefties in America.

Crazed Rabbit

[Aenlic]

Should something come of this thread, the most important thing might be if you want to join. It seems to me that you support what we Americans call 'gun rights' and individual freedom, so you can't be as bad as a lot of the lefties in America.Crazed Rabbit

Now you've just intrigued me, CR; because I fully support the 2nd Amendment and am especially fond of individual rights. The two are pretty much inseparable, in my opinion. And yet, we're at opposite ends on nearly everything else; except, perhaps, me taking small government to the extreme of no government, as such. Perhaps some additional clarification is in order?

[Aenlic]

See? Perhaps the too-easy pigeon-holes which some are fond of trying to stuff others into aren't as fitting as some might believe. Just a thought.

[Lehesu]

Labels are easier than thinking.

[Tribesman]

Maybe Divinus should change the clubs name .
Perhaps the contradictory club is more appropriate .

I, personally, support capitalism, very little government inference or regulation of your life, am a believer in tradition and I am religious.
So does Osama B , is he eligible for club membership ?
Damn , these pigeon holes don't work very well do they .

[Papewaio]

See? Perhaps the too-easy pigeon-holes which some are fond of trying to stuff others into aren't as fitting as some might believe. Just a thought.

I see the main problem with pigeon holing someone is:

















Holding them down long enough to chop them into small enough pieces.

[Al Khalifah]

Anti-Gay?

I wouldn't say a necessity of being Conservative was being 'Anti-gay.' Perhaps the belief that gay people should not be entitled to the same rights of union as opposite sex couples and perhaps should not be entitled to adopt children. Anti-gay sounds to me like you have something more generally against the existance of gay people at all.

Personal Freedom (Guns, ect.)?

While I don't presume to question our right and duty to keep and bear arms - surely this is not an issue of Freedom or not the best example of personal freedom. Somebody else's right to have firearms directly infringes on my right to walk wherever I please, similary their right to property and so on.
The more important foundation of Conservatism, in my opinion, is not an individual's rights or freedoms but rather the responsibilites imposed on others in order to maintain those rights and possibly also to prevent them being necessary. You might argue that you have the right to have firearms to protect your property which is an extension of the fact you believe you should be able to shoot someone if they tresspass onto your property. Shooting someone is a crime, but because they ignored their responsibility not to invade your private land, you exercised your right to shoot them.
This is the part of Conservatism I actually admire. It places the emphasis on the individual's responsibilty to do what they're supposed to, rather than the World-Gone-Mad attitude of being more concerned with their rights in the event that they do something wrong and with blunt intent. I'm not saying we should violently attack people just for being stupid or errors of judgement, but clearly, if you break into someone's house you are knowingly ignoring your responsbilities to society.

[AntiochusIII]

Anti-Socialist? Pro-Capitalist? Because all humans are equal, I'm superior to those who fails to recognize this fact in their own false sense of freedom that comes through oppression. They, who live in the indignity of following the Corporatist false cries of capitalism and the Imperialist fears against the historical inevitability that is socialism, must learn their ways anew lest they fail the cause of humanity. And did I mention all humans are equal?

Anti-Abortion? I hide myself behind the shield of Freedom of Choice to say : "Mind your own business" with pride and moral superiority. The real reason is actually for the benefit of all free, unmarried men. Why do you hate freedom?

Pro-"Traditional Values"? I take every opportunity to insult priests with pedophile jokes and pedophiles with Church jokes, and believe (how dare I!) that horrific gorish aggressive violence is worse than f-word, s-word, b-word, alphabet-word, etc. on TV. So no. Blame it on South "Blame Canada" Park.

Anti-Gay? Just for the purpose of this thread, I'm gonna pretend I'm gay for a minute. It's so super! You go girl! The purpose? To insult moralists with dirty stereotype gay jokes and gays with dirty stereotype redneck inbred jokes, and maintain that I have insulted nobody because I'm supposedly both. As you know, gays can't inbreed. So it's all cool to be a redneck gay. Once I'm done, it's back to pick up chicks and business as usual.

Anti-Big Government? I am the government. I am bigger than Leviathan. I need to lose some weight.

Personal Freedom (Guns, ect.)? Guns are only for those who will use them for their intended purpose: to serve me. The radicals, liberals, rebels, libertarians, anarchists, communists, fundamentalists, Nazis, insecure men with small sexual organs and big vehicles, and rednecks will have to make do with Canadian axes for now. Personal Freedom is overrated.

Am I a conservative?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Now you've just intrigued me, CR; because I fully support the 2nd Amendment and am especially fond of individual rights. The two are pretty much inseparable, in my opinion. And yet, we're at opposite ends on nearly everything else; except, perhaps, me taking small government to the extreme of no government, as such. Perhaps some additional clarification is in order?

Well, I seem to think of myself as a libertarian more than a traditional American conservative.

I, personally, support capitalism, very little government inference or regulation of your life, am a believer in tradition and I am religious.
So does Osama B , is he eligible for club membership ?
Damn , these pigeon holes don't work very well do they .

"Hello, I'm tribesman, with yet another post that adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. Aren't I clever?"

Crazed Rabbit

[Al Khalifah]

I'm not sure Osama B is pro-capitalist in any way shape or form. I think the hint in that one was the fact they attacked the World TRADE Centre.

[Tribesman]

"Hello, I'm tribesman, with yet another post that adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. Aren't I clever?"
Osama B is a wealthy businessman so is in favour of capitalism , he certainly doesn't like government interference or regulations , he is very traditionalist and claims to be religeous , he also is fond of guns .
He has gotta be conservative then hasn't he , he fits all the criteria you use to define your conservative pigeon hole Rabbit .
Once again I add absolutely nothing to the discussion by pointing out a major flaw in applying labels to people and trying to carpmentalise their position under a single vague word like liberal or conservative .

[Crazed Rabbit]

"Hello, I'm tribesman, with yet another post that adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. Aren't I clever?"
Osama B is a wealthy businessman so is in favour of capitalism ,

You're assuming. Know what we Americans say about that?

he certainly doesn't like government interference or regulations ,

What planet are you from? And what rock have you been living under there? Do you think Osama doesn't want governments enforcing Islamic laws?

He has gotta be conservative then hasn't he , he fits all the criteria you use to define your conservative pigeon hole Rabbit .

I wasn't even defining conservative with what you quoted.

Once again I add absolutely nothing to the discussion by pointing out a major flaw in applying labels to people and trying to carpmentalise their position under a single vague word like liberal or conservative .

No, you attempted to be clever but fell flat on your face becuse of your absurd example and lack of understanding regarding what you were replying to.

Crazed Rabbit

[Aenlic]

I don't wish to offend anyone; but I think it all has a very simple explanation.

We are not so far removed from the other primates that we don't still have certain very basic instinctual reactions. We also have some 2 million years of hominid savannah-walker instincts churning beneath a thin 5000-year old veneer of "civilized" behavior. Now, I don't wish to get into a vast argument about evolution and primates and whether or not the world was created some 4800 years ago as suggested by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

My point is simply that it is perfectly understandable for a primate, when feeling stressed or threatened, to seek the comfort of the group. It's deeply laid into our instincts. It's a very primate (and primal) thing to do. Perfectly natural. The difficulty comes when we get to defining the "group" within a modern context. All too often, we suddenly discover that the comforting group to which we've run for safety, expecting a bit of grooming a nice warm hug, turns out not to be chimps but a troup of baboons. Ooops!

[Papewaio]

All too often, we suddenly discover that the comforting group to which we've run for safety, expecting a bit of grooming a nice warm hug, turns out not to be chimps but a troup of baboons. Ooops!

Keep your big chimps and baboons as examples, I want the Bonobo like group.

[caravel]

So what is the point of this thread anyway? (apart from filling up the db)

Why a conservative "club"? This implies that the conservatives among us need some kind of a 'retreat' in order to group together for safety? Is there strength in numbers? So the conservatives feel the need to know their fellows? Maybe this needs to be a conservative 'hive', or conservative 'colony'? Are the conservative ideals and policies that fragile that a group is needed to add weight to argument? And this is the 14th instance? Well...

[Aenlic]

Keep your big chimps and baboons as examples, I want the Bonobo like group.

Pfft! Bonobos are too short. We all know what happens to short people. They got nobody, as the song goes.

I'd go with lemurs, they're much cuter, but it would get all confusing when that other primate, Lemur, shows up!

[Divinus Arma]

lol.

[English assassin]

Ouch!

I like elitism. I guess most who went to Imperial College, London do...

It's lonely at the top, but the view is great

Imperial? Terrible dump. Nearly as bad as that place in the fens.

[Divinus Arma]

ORDER! ORDER!

*Pounds Gavel*

I hereto forthwithby call this esteemed and holy club to order. Our magnamimous fellow conservative Gawain Of Orkeny is on an extended leave. In his place, I shall cite the bylaws, excuse me, *manlaws* of the Conservative Club:


Thou shalt not mention leftist liberals expect to show their folly to the world yet again.

Liberalism is to be considered a disease, and conservatism its cure.

The intrusion of leftist liberals is to be expected here. Consider them the colorful decorations; do not engage them directly, lest you disrupt the sanctity of our illustrious club.

Spectators are to be expected as well. Respect their presence, but engage them at peril- they may be a leftist liberal in disguise.

When going to the fridge for beer, you are obligated to bring a beer for everyone else.

When using the restroom, you are obligated to stop by the fridge and bring back a beer for everyone else.

Better yet, just restock the cooler when its your turn.

Don't Die.

No Fat Chicks.


All those who agree to the manlaws of the conservative club say "aye" and ye shall be entered into our rolls as a member. Break your sacred vows and ye shall be expelled, forever branded a leftist liberal in the eyes of the membership of this,

The XIV Conservative Club.

[Divinus Arma]

The First Procession, First Chapter, of Conservative Debate for this, The XIV Conservative Club begins as such:

Define what Conservatism means for you and how you came to choose Conservatism over that of Leftist Liberalism.

[Al Khalifah]

I think I already answered that one:

The most important foundation of Conservatism, in my opinion, is not an individual's rights or freedoms but rather the responsibilites imposed on others in order to maintain those rights and possibly also to prevent them being necessary. You might argue that you have the right to have firearms to protect your property which is an extension of the fact you believe you should be able to shoot someone if they tresspass onto your property. Shooting someone is a crime, but because they ignored their responsibility not to invade your private land, you exercised your right to shoot them.
This is the part of Conservatism I actually admire. It places the emphasis on the individual's responsibilty to do what they're supposed to, rather than the World-Gone-Mad attitude of being more concerned with their rights in the event that they do something wrong and with blunt intent. I'm not saying we should violently attack people just for being stupid or errors of judgement, but clearly, if you break into someone's house you are knowingly ignoring your responsbilities to society.

Like I say... I admire the way it treats people as intelligent rational beings who are capable of making decisions for themselves rather than the leftist viewpoint of little children who desperately need the Mother State to feed them and make the tough decisions for them.

[Divinus Arma]

I find the general trend of modern conservatives towards heavy-handed government-enforced moralism to be very disturbing, and counter-productive to the fundamental idea of freedom.

Mr. Gelatinous Cube, my thanks. The XIV Conservative Club shall be sure to debate the merits of religion in public policy in the future.

I admire the way it treats people as intelligent rational beings who are capable of making decisions for themselves rather than the leftist viewpoint of little children who desperately need the Mother State to feed them and make the tough decisions for them.

Does the Honorable Mr. Al Khalifah seek to join our rolls?

[Aenlic]

When going to the fridge for beer, you are obligated to bring a beer for everyone else.

When using the restroom, you are obligated to stop by the fridge and bring back a beer for everyone else.

Better yet, just restock the cooler when its your turn.

Communist ideology! Sharing the wealth! Sharing the labor! Everyone expected to provide (beer) for the mutual benefit (drunkeness) of the common good! Shame! Boo! Hiss!