I agree wholeheartedly with EVERYTHING in the above quote.Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
This person has to be joking...
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
I agree wholeheartedly with EVERYTHING in the above quote.
Last edited by Silver Rusher; 07-02-2006 at 19:09.
THE GODFATHER, PART 2
The Thread
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
The saddest thing about this thread is that those who denounce muslims for not 'integrating' and 'getting involved in society', probably have not a single muslim friend amongst them. You are so scared about these evil people, maybe you should actually get involved yourself and meet these people, who you continually decry for being so different and dangerous.
Personally, I live within 30 minutes of Heathrow and thus I live in the biggest dumping ground of immigrants in this country and I have never had a problem with a muslim person or any other 'foreign' person that I havent had with a 'white anglo saxon'.
GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.
Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Tollerance is about living with something without having to accept it, every other major religion manages. I can barely remember the last time a Jew, Sikh of Hindu complained about being persecuted, its just Muslims.
So you cannot remember the Christians complaining about Sunday opening , sports on Sunday , protest marches on a Sunday ?
What about the problem with finding a new Jewish cemetry for London , they just won't fit in with local burial places don't ya know .
Sihks , Hindus , very upset about the problems local laws tried to impose on the carrying of swords wasn't there , or the older one about crash helmets .
This rubbish about the Muslims not fitting in is exactly the same crap that was written about the Jewish population in the 19/20th centuries . In fact if you read the complaints at the time about the Federation of Synagogs organised days out , festivals and celebrations , then you find it is exactly the same rubbish as is being spouted now about Muslims practically word for word .
Come to think of it , it is the same crap that is written about immigrants or peoplewhoo are different everywhere .
The problem with this is, as Fragony and others pointed out, isolation from the society they live in. It seems Tribesman cannot see the forest for the trees, and ignores the main problem here; these people want to exclude themselves from society. They don't want to integrate with all the other people in England. They are not happy, it seems, with a society that includes people of different religions, or does not follow their religious guidelines.
Thats strange Rabbit , I thought you were in favour of people like that .
Or is it only people like that if they have lots of guns and live in a compound ?
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Hmm, I rethought about the issue and have to say there are two passages that bothered me, maybe I misunderstood:
1. "All childrens' areas will be limited to sisters only." What exactly does that mean, who is meant with "sisters"? Muslim women? or small girls who have a brother?
2. "Many of us including myself love theme parks but are put off by the unislamic environment, now's your chance to experience the thrills of the park in a halal environment inshaAllah!" I may have overreacted, but it sounds a bit like our culture is not good enough for them, like they feel their culture was superior. And because I think we are all the same, that hurt me. But as I said, maybe I misunderstood.
Apart from that I have no problems, I only dislike turks.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Yeah I was wondering what that meant too. I guess they mean little girls.
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
No, "sisters" mean here the way they use the "brother" for. I don't know about the Arabic concept for it but in Turkish the seperation of women from men in a gathering (only religiously oriented) is called "haremlik - selamlık". That means the women will reside in children's areas while the gathering takes place.
The claim of cultural superiority is nothing new nor one-sided2. "Many of us including myself love theme parks but are put off by the unislamic environment, now's your chance to experience the thrills of the park in a halal environment inshaAllah!" I may have overreacted, but it sounds a bit like our culture is not good enough for them, like they feel their culture was superior. And because I think we are all the same, that hurt me. But as I said, maybe I misunderstood.
But I adore you, NussApart from that I have no problems, I only dislike turks.(I miss the chat sessions, gah..)
But seriously, everyone has the right to like/dislike. My regards, I think myself as a German and sometimes I'd simply get frustrated with Turkish populace over there.
Last edited by LeftEyeNine; 07-02-2006 at 21:32.
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
I think they might mean all muslim women. Reading that thread, some of them refer to each others as 'sisters'.
I was wondering when the tired accusations of fear and hate would come up. I guess we know now. After all, it's easier to just accuse than actually debate.The saddest thing about this thread is that those who denounce muslims for not 'integrating' and 'getting involved in society', probably have not a single muslim friend amongst them. You are so scared about these evil people, maybe you should actually get involved yourself and meet these people, who you continually decry for being so different and dangerous.
Sounds like you need some reading analysis skills.Thats strange Rabbit , I thought you were in favour of people like that .
Or is it only people like that if they have lots of guns and live in a compound ?
LEN, I'm not against them booking this so much as their reasons for doing so.
All these people bringing up comparisons to vegetarians, etc., don't realize that vegetarians don't try to exclude themselves from the rest of society.
Crazed Rabbit
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
But wrong nonetheless.The claim of cultural superiority is nothing new nor one-sided
I love you, too, Wuss.But I adore you, Nuss
Some of them are probably weird, but I haven´t had any problems so far and my neighborhood has quite a few turks. Besides, one of my best friends here is of turkish origin.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
So its a private venue as they have booked it all out. But some are annoyed that they will theme it in a non-multicultural way.
So should the Opera theaters which are so staid with their traditions be forced to play Kylie to make them more acceptable to the masses?
Should we drain half our swimming pools so that skateboarders don't feel threatened when going to an aquatic center as their chosen hobby is not generally looked out for?
Should we put gambling dens and pubs in every Church so that a wider swath of society is represented?
Should we get incensed that our local Indian restaurants don't serve steak'n'kidney pies?
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Ahahahahahahahaha..... ahahahahhah... ok ok I'm done, I'm done... no not finished yet ahahahahhah.The saddest thing about this thread is that those who denounce muslims for not 'integrating' and 'getting involved in society', probably have not a single muslim friend amongst them. You are so scared about these evil people, maybe you should actually get involved yourself and meet these people, who you continually decry for being so different and dangerous.
Ok now. You claim that those in this thread who denounce muslims for not integrating with the rest of soceity probably don't have a single muslim friend amongst us. This reminded me of a conversation I had with my muslim NEIGHBOUR and FRIEND after the 7/7 attacks. We were talking about possible motivations for this sort of thing. My neighbour used to live in Leeds not far from the area where one of the bombers lived. I asked him why he thought muslims were both targetted and targetting the rest of society. He said that - and I try to quote him his best I can - that he felt that 'muslims did not try nearly hard enough to mingle with other groups in society.' He spoke out about the way many muslims, including his own parents are unwilling to integrate with other ethnic groups - specifically Jewish and Hindu communities. Unlike other groups, many muslim immigrants to Britain have brought a lot of baggage with them.
He was of course keen to differentiate between many younger British-born muslims who he feels are an active part of their local communities and others who are either already prejudiced or have been made so by their parents. The problem is that those who do wish to integrate with the rest of society are often prevented from doing so by those who wish to impose this shield on them and I would be the first to admit these people are on both sides of the theological fence.
My concern is purely that this kind of activity is just maintaing that cultural wall. If there is no mingling then there is no communication. Without communication there can be no understanding and so hatred and conflict will flourish.
Please don't make such blanket or ignorant accusations. There are muslims who dislike this kind of thing - because of the cultural wall it builds around them. Multiculturalism does not mean everyone living in their own little compartmentalised little ghettos and never integrating with other groups and trying new things.
Cowardice is to run from the fear;
Bravery is not to never feel the fear.
Bravery is to be terrified as hell;
But to hold the line anyway.
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Arrghh... yet again the islamic demon appears! And this time it's invading Alton Towers! So they won't integrate? Big deal, what do you expect them to do, go around the local pubs, wearing England tops, handing out chapatis? They've been quite literally despised since the first moment they've set foot on British soil, by the average person that can't tell a muslim from a sikh anyway, so what did you expect? So have the black people, and the Irish weren't too popular either (I should know). And now, quite obviously unworldly, people demand that they integrate into a society that has never truly excepted them anyway!
This has only made them stronger however, as it always does, and in some cities turned them into surprising entrepeneurs that have totally outpaced the "natives". They rent houses, run shops, taxi firms, and other companies while the "natives" simply sit around and moan on the dole. I can walk into a JobCentre in a primarily asian district and the vast majority of people I will see waiting there at any time of the day will not be from the muslim or wider asian community. Also I am aware of a college not far from where I grew up that is now almost totally populated with asian students. The local white teenagers are too busy hanging about outside the local off-licence drinking and smoking, or vandalising bus shelters to go into further education. This district is primarily white only a tiny fraction of asians live there. The asian students commute a long way. And this is where all the resentment comes from of course. Because they succeed without integrating, or with only integrating to a certain level, and without conforming, they are hated by a certain group of narrow minded hypocrites because they do well in life.
What is so wrong about them booking this venue and imposing these rules? Their religion is such that it is necessary or they would not be able to go there at all. Does it hurt me that they've done this? No. Alton Towers will be open to the masses the rest of the year so where's the problem?
I suppose the English style bars and nightclubs that litter Spain, the Balearics and parts of Greece should all be closed down as well? I mean that's not Greek or Spanish culture is it? If they're not closed they should only serve spanish food and drink and the staff should only speak in spanish. And if the English don't understand well that's their damned problem isn't it? Should have made more effort to integrate! ¿Qué piensas? ¿Buena idea?
Last edited by caravel; 07-02-2006 at 23:37.
“The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France
"The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Sounds like you need some reading analysis skills.
So that must be a different Rabbit that posts in support of religeous nuts who isolate themselves , hate their government , wider society and anyone that doesn't share their strange views on life .
You really must stop other people posting under your name .
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
I guess I'll have to spell it out for you:Sounds like you need some reading analysis skills.
So that must be a different Rabbit that posts in support of religeous nuts who isolate themselves , hate their government , wider society and anyone that doesn't share their strange views on life .
You really must stop other people posting under your name .
Thinking that the government was not right in laying siege to a house full of children to 'save' them does not equate to support for the thinking of the group leaders.
Similar to "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" if you can understand that.
Crazed Rabbit
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
I wonder if the author of these words takes time to consider just how many Europeans are put off by his very presence.Many of us including myself love theme parks but are put off by the unislamic environment
Its sad to see the once powerful European continent taken over by these disgusting "people". Hopefully Europeans will wake up and take action before it becomes..
Many of us including myself love Europe but are put off by the unislamic environment
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Another friendly muslim get together in Europe? How could that possibly not turn out good...
Last edited by Joker85; 07-03-2006 at 06:10.
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
What is it with people who believe that God is on their side and that they are righteous feel the need to cover their faces? Why the desire to always burn something (flag, effigy, cross) and why are the majority of their signs so inane?
I've got to get The Insane Guide to Religious Fundamentalist Rallies with Fires, Sign Writing and Dress Code.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
What is it with people who can't see the difference between:
a) silly religiously-motivated protests demanding society conform to that religion
b) religious people hiring a venue for a day, banning certain things there
Isn't alternative b) an example of muslims trying to fit in? They hired the place! They didn't demonstrate outside, protesting the evil unislamic ways and demanding it be stopped!
If you're fighting fair you've made a miscalculation.
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Its sad to see the once powerful European continent taken over by these disgusting "people".
Well thats a surprise Panzer , can you suggest a solution for these "people" .
This rubbish about the Muslims not fitting in is exactly the same crap that was written about the Jewish population in the 19/20th centuries . In fact if you read the complaints at the time about the Federation of Synagogs organised days out , festivals and celebrations , then you find it is exactly the same rubbish as is being spouted now about Muslims practically word for word .
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Since when do you imperial American isolationist "people" care for us Europeans anyway?
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
I think I can conclude two things:
1) Religious groups should not be allowed to rent amusement parks with their own money.
2) While it was a good idea to put this panzer-person on ignore, people keep quoting him.
"The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."
“I only defended myself and the honor of my family” - Nazanin
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
I think you're on to something, Papewaio!
As an example, here's one of our homegrown U.S. religious fundamentalists doing what they do best - making the world safe for bigots and fools.
One of those lovable Phelp's family cretins, of course.
Maybe the eugenics people were right and we shouldn't allow some people to breed. I'll buy into that if we start with Fred Phelps's family.
"Dee dee dee!" - Annoymous (the "differently challenged" and much funnier twin of Anonymous)
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
I am European by birth, and although I disagree with the political climate of the continent, it pains me to see the conquerors become the conquered.Since when do you imperial American isolationist "people" care for us Europeans anyway?
It will not last forever though. Soon, even the most "open-minded" true Europeans will wake up and realize their respective countries are being lost to the [people of various ethnicities and religious sects comprising the islamic faith].
Democracy works both ways. When politicians are forced to pander to a growing muslim population - women suffer, Christians suffer, economies suffer - every aspect of a nation declines in order to please a militant, backwards group of "people".
And if that isnt bad enough, what happens when the muslims have enough voting power to not only influence politics, but to change laws?
Europeans should end the muslim problem by whatever means necessary as soon as possible. Will they? Of course not. The veil of multiculturalism is far thicker than a burka...
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
PJ, I'm half-convinced that you're never serious. That this is all just an act to provoke a response, right? I mean, really now, this is just too cliché.Europeans should end the muslim problem by whatever means necessary as soon as possible. Will they? Of course not. The veil of multiculturalism is far thicker than a burka...
The "muslim problem" should be ended by whatever means necessary?
Are you, by any chance, related to Eichmann or Heydrich?
Your quote above is about this --><-- far from proposing a "final solution" to the muslim problem, and certainly sounds hauntingly familiar in that context.
"Dee dee dee!" - Annoymous (the "differently challenged" and much funnier twin of Anonymous)
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
I´m very sorry my friend and I apologise.
Panzer, I think you got the whole idea of America wrong, if you were born in Europe and then emigrated to America, the land of milk and guns, you were supposed to leave your Nazi-views behind...
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Umm, he is serious, and I am afraid that one day a lot of people will agree with Panzer. All you have to do is study the history and the populaltion statistics and you'll figure out what will happen.PJ, I'm half-convinced that you're never serious. That this is all just an act to provoke a response, right? I mean, really now, this is just too cliché.
The "muslim problem" should be ended by whatever means necessary?
Are you, by any chance, related to Eichmann or Heydrich?
Your quote above is about this --><-- far from proposing a "final solution" to the muslim problem, and certainly sounds hauntingly familiar in that context.
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
At least here in the Netherlands the love is kinda gone, no (traditional) racist incidents so far but it's bound to happen at some point of the politicians keep ignoring the problems.
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Only whites can be racist.
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
That is why I call it 'traditional' racist attacks, like in Belgium a few weeks ago. These caused mucho orchestrated civil unrest, because they hardly ever occur. Racist attacks where whites are victims, well a few each day. Let's check the score of the day, one girl hit with a brick and an ambulance team assaulted, but it's still early.
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
Not just Jews either, though they have been on the wrong end of it for the longest.
Substitute Catholic for Muslim in many of these posts and you would have a good representation of the 17th to 19th century attitude of many European countries. All of the above liked to keep themselves to themsleves and have a political and religious allegiance to something other than the established power. This makes people nervous.
And of course, Irish. When I first visited the UK as a nipper in the early seventies, you could see signs on B&Bs stating: No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish; as a matter of course. Not to mention the number of times I was searched and occasionally arrested as a potential terrorist merely because of my accent.
On the other hand, some catholics and Irishmen were actively working against the interests of the state they lived in. Doesn't mean to say every last man-jack of those groups was therefore guilty.
"If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
Albert Camus "Noces"
Re: They just want to fit in, right.
That is quite clearly not so.
An obvious example is the current furor in the black community over the use of the "N" word.
Another example is the use of the word gaijin as an insult in Japan.
Ask a Kurd in Turkey about racism.
Ethnic Cantonese in North America have a term for those who become too Westernized. Look it up.
Arabs have several derogatory, racist words for Persians and vice versa. The same for Tamils and Sinhalese. As a matter of fact, the Tamils seem to have a pejorative term for just about everyone who isn't Tamil.
There's even an occurence of a derogatory term for outsider races in a late Vedic text, from around 500 BCE.
The list goes on an on.
So, white racism is nothing special, Eclectic! Looks like you'll have to find some other way to feel superior.
Last edited by Aenlic; 07-03-2006 at 14:11.
"Dee dee dee!" - Annoymous (the "differently challenged" and much funnier twin of Anonymous)
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