They just want to fit in, right.

[Al Khalifah]

And of course, Irish. When I first visited the UK as a nipper in the early seventies, you could see signs on B&Bs stating: No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish; as a matter of course. Not to mention the number of times I was searched and occasionally arrested as a potential terrorist merely because of my accent.

Of course this only worked one way. I guess that incident of having a brick thrown at my head in Dublin because of my accent didn't happen.

[Divinus Arma]

That is quite clearly not so.

An obvious example is the current furor in the black community over the use of the "N" word.

Another example is the use of the word gaijin as an insult in Japan.

Ask a Kurd in Turkey about racism.

Ethnic Cantonese in North America have a term for those who become too Westernized. Look it up.

Arabs have several derogatory, racist words for Persians and vice versa. The same for Tamils and Sinhalese. As a matter of fact, the Tamils seem to have a pejorative term for just about everyone who isn't Tamil.

There's even an occurence of a derogatory term for outsider races in a late Vedic text, from around 500 BCE.

The list goes on an on.

So, white racism is nothing special, Eclectic! Looks like you'll have to find some other way to feel superior.

I was pretending to be an American Liberal. In America, if you are black and Republican then you are labeled "Uncle Tom" or a "Good Slave".

American liberals are some of the most racist people you will ever meet. Modern day Republicans see equality. Democrats see power through division. It is in the political interests of the Democratic party to keep minorities disenfrachised. Would anybody listen to Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson if they didn't promote the illusion of race division?

It is in a business owner's best interest to hire and train the brightest and most fully qualified. Hiring an individual based on race, any race, makes the business less competitive in this ruthless global economy. Talent. Ability. Tenacity. Integrity. Merit-based employment is a cornerstone of a healthy and competitive business sector.


I understand the logic behind reverse discrimantion and affirmative action. It's to give those who were born with nothing a fighting chance against those who were bron with everything. Take me for example. I was in poverty with no skills. At one point, I didn't even have a high school diploma. Now I finish my MBA next spring. Should I get advantage based on the color of my skin?

Anybody with vision, talent, and commitment can make a better life for themself in America. Skin color is moot to me. Racism, be it hate inspired or charity inspired, is a disease that can only be eradicated by eliminating the differences we create as a society.

[Kralizec]

Anybody with vision, talent, and commitment can make a better life for themself in America. Skin color is moot to me. Racism, be it hate inspired or charity inspired, is a disease that can only be eradicated by eliminating the differences we create as a society.

Very eloquently put, and I agree




I don't see how this whole sub-discussion has anything to do with people renting off amusement parks though
If the anti-party here had argued on the basis that it seems they're segregating genders on this day, or proved that non-muslims can't enter, they'd have a point.
All I see now is the expression of the old "first our theme parks, then sharia law!!!" sentiment from the usual suspects.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Of course this only worked one way. I guess that incident of having a brick thrown at my head in Dublin because of my accent didn't happen.

I'm not saying it didn't. The blow clearly increased your sensitivity . Yes, there are still idiot people in the Republic who have a chip over old scores.

My point was that today's bogey cultures are tomorrow's theme pubs. In the meantime, we should stop demonising groups of people who want to be different because of some bad apples.

[Fragony]

ee now is the expression of the old "first our theme parks, then sharia law!!!" sentiment from the usual suspects.

You miss the point, as I said it's not about them hiring a theme park, but about the socalled social exclusion that is in reality voluntary isolation.

[Keba]

You miss the point, as I said it's not about them hiring a theme park, but about the socalled social exclusion that is in reality voluntary isolation.

Not so ... I see no problem with a group of people doing whatever their culture instructs them to do, as long as they obey the laws. So, perhaps they wish to have fun without some of the excesses of western capitalism ... and? Even I am put off by the stuff sometimes.

There's a muslim community in my home town ... they hold their rites, do what their culture demands of them, and every last one of them was born in my country. They are not causing the least of trouble, despite being some 10 meters from a school.

It is difficult to compare ... but would you not keep your little ways if you move to another culture? Like, say, eating pork ... trating women as equals (this is for example, not debate), or such?

[English assassin]

My point was that today's bogey cultures are tomorrow's theme pubs.

I might be wrong here, but wouldn't something rather important be missing from a Sharia pub? Pork scratchings, I mean.

Although PAST bogey cultures are todays theme pubs, there is no particular reason to suppose that will happen again. It might or it might not. Past performance is no guarantee etc etc.

And even if it does, that is not to deny the pains of the process. There's not too much huguenot-english violence down in Kent any more, but that would be little consolation to anyone beaten up at the time.

And look: they were benefit scrounging asylum seekers ! I see the government was cutting off their benefits as well. Truly there is nothing new under the sun.

23-25 June 1709 Whereas it has been observ’d, and great offence taken at several of the poor Palatines begging about streets; notwithstanding the care that has been taken by the Government, and a great many private charities, to feed and lodge the said Palatines, to the end that they might not become burdensome to the country: These are to give notice, and earnestly to recommend to all Constables and Headboroughs, and other Parish-Officers, to stop and apprehend all such idle Palatines as they find begging from door to door, and to carry them before the next magistrate, to be dealt with according to law; or to take their names, and give notice thereof to the Reverend Mr. Tribbeko, at the Golden-Angel near Somerset-House, or Mr. Ruperti, Minister of the Lutheran Congregation, in the Savoy; to the end that their allowance from the Government may be stop’d.

[Fragony]

Not so ... I see no problem with a group of people doing whatever their culture instructs them to do, as long as they obey the laws. So, perhaps they wish to have fun without some of the excesses of western capitalism ... and? Even I am put off by the stuff sometimes.

Muslims are allowed to hold on to their culture if that is what they want, I have little problem with that. But, muslims happen to cause a lot of trouble, and the utopian crowd likes to shove that on these strange phenomenoms called social exclusion/language barriers/solar flares that supposedly makes it very hard for them not to rob grannies. I am sick of getting the blame for a deliberate refusal to fit in, and all the taxpayers money that is pumped into trying to emancipate this crowd. It's not our fault, we tried, so the muslims really need to [...] and stop demanding and start deserving.

[Big_John]

2) While it was a good idea to put this panzer-person on ignore, people keep quoting him.

haha, it sucks doesn't it? that's got to be a vB setting the admins can fix..

edit: though, when people are calling for real-life genocide (barely disguised as it may be) on a public game forum.. vB settings may not be the first action that comes to an admin's attention.

[Silver Rusher]

The saddest thing about this thread is that those who denounce muslims for not 'integrating' and 'getting involved in society', probably have not a single muslim friend amongst them. You are so scared about these evil people, maybe you should actually get involved yourself and meet these people, who you continually decry for being so different and dangerous.

And where do you get that presumptuous load of BS from? Instead of throwing ignorant accusations at people, why don't we try debating this properly?

[Big_John]

And where do you get that presumptuous load of BS from? Instead of throwing ignorant accusations at people, why don't we try debating this properly?

this thread is about people of a certain religion hiring a ******* amusement park for a day. an amusement park! seriously, what is to debate? rediculous.

this idea, as Kraz puts it, of "first our theme parks, then sharia law!!!" (and despite any effort to claim otherwise, that's all it is) doesn't deserve much more than a "presumptuous load of BS".

[rory_20_uk]

Jag, the muslim friends I have are all moderates. They fit in with society. If we go out, they don't drink and to be honest that's the most noticable difference (not great as I am a moderate drinker).

I know how you love decrying anyone stopping groups doing what they want (except the conservative and Imperail threads) but to state that all against this have no muslim friends merely shows that you're loosing your grip on reality.

Try to be a bit less of a self richeous bigot, eh?

[PanzerJaeger]

Your quote above is about this --><-- far from proposing a "final solution" to the muslim problem, and certainly sounds hauntingly familiar in that context.

Your words, not mine.

[LeftEyeNine]

Sorry but this will be a bit long OT:

Ask a Kurd in Turkey about racism.

He will not be able to say much since he will probably earning his money..somehow..

I do add : Why is it racism when it is a Turkish nationalism but not racism when it is a Kurdish nationalism ?

Roj TV openly provoked all the incident through the burial ceremonies of terrorist killed. Kurdish majors, their political party can openly suggest Abdullah Öcalan's release -who is accepted as a terrorist organization leader worldwide.

They can be the president, they can be the parliamenter, they can be famous, they can sing, they live, they earn, they mob, they beat, they attack, they rape, they make noise in the middle of the night, they disturb while I'm walking around with my girlfriend, they create hoods where even policemen can not enter, they sell drugs, they own most of the brothels, they exist in every dirty job in this country and they still talk about racism. Foreigners still talk about racism. They ask for more.

Whole western Turkey is not the place it was it was 10 years ago. And people still can find the courage to talk about what they see in websites. Because Kurds, Armenians, Greeks and whomever this country is claimed to have a problem with are all people like Smurfs living a happy community in the very deep of a peaceful forest, but Turks were all like the Burning Legion rushed and razed, right?

I'm happy to welcome any of you to take you to places where only Kurds live. I can not guarantee the survival but it will at least garnt you a lifetime experience and point of view.

P.S. A Swiss couple had decided to camp around Van -where is mostly Kurdish now. I'm damn sure that they were looking to prove out something about Kurds. Well 5 thugs tied the man to a tree and raped the woman. I think they now hate "Turks".

[Tribesman]

While it was a good idea to put this panzer-person on ignore, people keep quoting him.
That is because one "good" quote from Panzer can illustrate exactly what is wrong with some of the views being put forward .
Thanks Panzer

[A.Saturnus]

But, muslims happen to cause a lot of trouble...

People like you cause a lot of trouble as well, don't they?

As GoreBag said, things like this happen every single day. There are laws and there's culture. You have to accept laws, but you can live in whatever form of culture you like. If I go to a party where everyone wears black, Victorian cloths, latex, chrome and leather then that's not because I want social exclusion but because I like it that way.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I think this is actually a very important topic because it illustative.

We have two issues here:

1) This group of Muslims feel uncomfortable at themeparks and are put off by the "Unislamic" environment.

What I said before is that a large themepark which attracts people from all over the world should always make Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Jedi Christians welcome and they should provide for their culinary requirements the same as they provide a vegetarian option.

2) Conversly

The complaint of an "Unislamic" environment is frankly insulting, England is England, it isn't Islamic, its Germanic if anything and to be honest I like it that way, just as the Welsh like their land Celtic. The comment implies a lack of willingness to integrate.

If they believe their culture is superior then not wanting to change it is fine, I feel the same way about my culture. The fact is that England is my culture and if they don't want to partake of that culture than why do they want to live here? The NHS?

Thats the problem.

As to the previous bustups between cultures and religions, Tribesman, are the Christians still complaining about Sunday football? If the Jews want their own semetary for their own religion what is wrong with that? Religion has its place and it is very important to many people.

As to knowing any Muslims, I knew one, he was in my Law class, he seemed alright to me, I think he was uncomfortable surrounded by Anglo Saxons, to be honest, and I don't blame him. Aside from him there aren't many Muslims in my part of the country and those there are keep to themselves and since they don't go to pubs or our local "Pagan" festivals I don't have many oppertunities to meet them.

(Rough calculations indicate that Muslims make up 2.5% of our population, this makes the large Muslim communities in some cities all the more significant.)

[King Ragnar]

So hold on these muslims have problems about how the theme park is run and some of the food and rides? So wouldnt it be logical for them to pack up and go back home, because i mean its pritty sad trying to enforece their silly rules and believes on the people already living here who enjoy the park.

If they ( Muslims ) dont like the country they have immigrated to, then why the hell stay here and make a fuss, surely they should just go find somewhere else as far as possible from here and me.

[Papewaio]

They bulk booked the entire park, and then helped provide their own halal food.

Do you complain when a Hindu refuses to eat a hamburger?

[Aenlic]

Why is it racism when it is a Turkish nationalism but not racism when it is a Kurdish nationalism.

I didn't say it wasn't racism, LeftEyeNine. You should know better. I was making a point about racism not just being an all-white thing, as Eclectic seemed to suggest (although he corrected me on that misconception). If I must list all cases of racism to avoid leaving anyone out, when listing any at all, then we'd be here all night while I compile the list. Bad idea.

[Papewaio]

I was just thinking Halal food is a lot safer then Christians and cordial.

After all you never can really trust a Christian get together when they serve up cordial.

[Tribesman]

As to the previous bustups between cultures and religions, Tribesman, are the Christians still complaining about Sunday football?
It was Rugby football to be precise wigferth , and it was last year, and the beautiful irony is that while they were protesting on a Sunday about the match , another group of Christians was protesting about people protesting on a Sunday , but they waited till the Monday to protest about protesting on a Sunday as they take their Sabbath so seriously that they even shut their website on the Lords day .Which isn't the same Lords day as other people have as there is some strange phenomena which leads different people to call the seventh day a different day .
Personally I think they should all move it to a Monday , everyone could do with a rest on a Monday

This group of Muslims feel uncomfortable at themeparks and are put off by the "Unislamic" environment.
I wonder if the Amish went to a carpentry exhibition and were put off by the presence of power tools , would it be acceptable for them to book out a venue and hold a Amish carpentry festival ?
Yes , you see because they aren't Muslims , so it doesn't matter if they live somewhere and keep their own views in isolation to what everyone else does .

[PanzerJaeger]

I wonder if the Amish went to a carpentry exhibition and were put off by the presence of power tools , would it be acceptable for them to book out a venue and hold a Amish carpentry festival ?
Yes , you see because they aren't Muslims , so it doesn't matter if they live somewhere and keep their own views in isolation to what everyone else does

The Amish also dont make a habbit of cutting people's heads off and blowing them up... food for thought, Tribesbibble.

[GoreBag]

The complaint of an "Unislamic" environment is frankly insulting, England is England, it isn't Islamic, its Germanic if anything and to be honest I like it that way, just as the Welsh like their land Celtic. The comment implies a lack of willingness to integrate.

That's carp. Does it make sense if a woman is put off by the 'scene' in a backwater pub, let's say, full of smoke and sweaty, buzzed-to-drunk men leering over her? How about an underclass man in a posh restaurant? Even if they're all English, or even just Germanic?

Just for the record, I'm a North American, and I'm put off by neon-lighted, gay, disco bars. Insulting? Culture changes with the person - it's not like every Muslim in the area came forward to participate. Maybe some of them are put off by theme parks in general. Is that anti-Western sentiment?

How can it be insulting? You wouldn't have cared if Frag here hadn't posted the article. It would have gone entirely unnoticed.

As I see it, there are two ways to work around this issue. 1) Figure out that it doesn't affect you, and leave each mang to his own, or 2) Choose to be outraged and have fists about it.

[Tribesman]

food for thought, Tribesbibble
hmmmmm....Panzer ----thought ....nope them two words don't fit together .

[Incongruous]

The deluded cry of the right wing.
I hate Muslims
and
Why are you anti-christian
and
why do you want to destroy our native culture.

Isnt that it?

[rory_20_uk]

I'm right wing.

I'm agnostic and am equally indifferent to Muslims and Christians.

I live in a land where Curry is one of the national dishes.

I feel that throughout history my land has been blended with others as can be seen from our rich language to our now edible cuisine.

I'm not keen when others come here and instead of ignoring what they do not like try to remove from their lives all things that they do not like.

[English assassin]

I think we are allowed to be a little worried when 13% of our muslim fellow countrymen think that the 7/7 bombers were "martyrs", no? That's 13% of 1.6 million, a whopping 208,000 people. Can we, yunno, at least talk about this? Or is that too illiberal.

Lets try this thought experiment: 13% of white britons believe anyone who shoots unarmed muslim citizens dead is a hero. Cue outrage.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...254764,00.html

And yes, I can read the figures showing that a fair proportion of muslims have a heathier attitude. That, and the idea of muslim theme pubs in 200 years time, will be a great comfort to me when my children are gassed on the tube by one of the "few bad apples".

[rory_20_uk]

So many are prepared to say that they are against extremism... yet this mass of people are rather quiet when the bombs go off, or masses of fertiliser is bought and stored in a garage for a few months.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That's carp. Does it make sense if a woman is put off by the 'scene' in a backwater pub, let's say, full of smoke and sweaty, buzzed-to-drunk men leering over her? How about an underclass man in a posh restaurant? Even if they're all English, or even just Germanic?

Just for the record, I'm a North American, and I'm put off by neon-lighted, gay, disco bars. Insulting? Culture changes with the person - it's not like every Muslim in the area came forward to participate. Maybe some of them are put off by theme parks in general. Is that anti-Western sentiment?

How can it be insulting? You wouldn't have cared if Frag here hadn't posted the article. It would have gone entirely unnoticed.

As I see it, there are two ways to work around this issue. 1) Figure out that it doesn't affect you, and leave each mang to his own, or 2) Choose to be outraged and have fists about it.

Yes, our culture is varied and not every part is to everyone's taste. Consider this though, the woman can always go to a different pub and frankly I think you over estimate our modern class division but the working class man can go to a greasy spoon. The difference is that this themepark thing is symtomatic of the Muslim attitude to Britain in general and their lack of willingness to integrate.

The Amish? They're coplete pacifists. What if they said they wanted to come to New York, but only if they wound back the clock 300 years. Or they wanted to go to hospital but only if everything was done in an 18th Century manner.

Would that be right?

It was Rugby football to be precise wigferth , and it was last year, and the beautiful irony is that while they were protesting on a Sunday about the match , another group of Christians was protesting about people protesting on a Sunday , but they waited till the Monday to protest about protesting on a Sunday as they take their Sabbath so seriously that they even shut their website on the Lords day .Which isn't the same Lords day as other people have as there is some strange phenomena which leads different people to call the seventh day a different day .
Personally I think they should all move it to a Monday , everyone could do with a rest on a Monday

I stand corrected, did anyone listen to them then? Why do the general British population dislike the Muslims, because they kick up a fuss and they are the only ones listened to.

The deluded cry of the right wing.
I hate Muslims
and
Why are you anti-christian
and
why do you want to destroy our native culture.

Isnt that it?

1. I dislike certain aspects of certain Muslim sects, the religion itself seems fine to me, its the way it has been interpreted. Having met very few Muslims I have no reason to hate them, this also assumes they are a honogenous group. My problem hear is with the group that want to block-book Alton Towers and why.

2. I never said anyone was anti-Christian but in the same way that if Christians did this there would be less vocal outcry (I'd still be uncomfortable about the idea) if Christians complain about anything they are ignored.

3. They do want to destroy our native culture, they want us to all turn Muslim and have a Muslim monarch and Prime Minister. If you knew anything about Islam you would know that already. Yes thats what every religion wants, which is why we currently have a Christian monarch.

The problem I have is a lack of willingness to intregrate with the predominate culture, worse they feel the need to try and change the things they don't like.

If they want an Islamic environment they should live in an Islamic country, if they came to this country because they thought it was better they should stop trying to change it.

If I'm such a right wing Nazi why don't I have a problem with Jews, Sikhs or Hindus?