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Thread: EB to BI's 1.6
Has any consideration been given to porting EB to BI's 1.6 version? Some mod folks at RTRPE has already ported RTRPE v 1.5 to 1.6 and it works very well. This allows some units to swim, the shield wall, etc.
There is a chance for both 1.5 and 1.6 versions as somebody here claimed that going from 1.5 to 1.6 is very easy. BUT we have to fix our problems with 1.5 version BEFORE we start thinking about 1.6 so not earlier than post v0.8
Porting to 1.6 when a mod works with 1.5 is indeed extremely easy. I tested this with RTRPE a while back: all you have to do is install the game over BI and delete/rename your bi subfolder. Then run the game using the RomeTW-BI.exe file and it works just fine. The game also creates another bi subfolder with a new preferences folder and such, and you can place any 1.6-specific files in the bi\data folder so you can still use the 1.5 exe to run the game normally if you want.
There is also another option, where you can run a simple .bat file before installing a 1.5 mod over BI that changes the file structure to allow the mod to be run directly with the BI exe.
Both methods seem to be extremely stable; I've not had any problems using RTRPE with the BI exe at all. There are no huge differences between using the two exes, though, I *think* there's a few minor tweaks to the AI and the AI factions seem more capable of using the prefers_naval_invasions feature in 1.6 than 1.5.
So IMHO, using the BI executable for EB should only be a concern after a 1.5-compatible version is released.
There is also another option, where you can run a simple .bat file before installing a 1.5 mod over BI that changes the file structure to allow the mod to be run directly with the BI exe.
Both methods seem to be extremely stable; I've not had any problems using RTRPE with the BI exe at all. There are no huge differences between using the two exes, though, I *think* there's a few minor tweaks to the AI and the AI factions seem more capable of using the prefers_naval_invasions feature in 1.6 than 1.5.
So IMHO, using the BI executable for EB should only be a concern after a 1.5-compatible version is released.
Please don`t port to 1.6 because not everyone has BI. As for me 1.5 is good enough.
Originally Posted by Dago:
Please don`t port to 1.6 because not everyone has BI. As for me 1.5 is good enough.
Why would they not port to 1.6? They're going to finish porting to 1.5 anyways, so those without BI (like myself) will have what they need, but after that, why intentionally not port to 1.6 if it's as easy as described?Please don`t port to 1.6 because not everyone has BI. As for me 1.5 is good enough.
Well yes, they could do two versions, one for 1.5 and one for 1.6. That would be ok.
IMHO, just keep to one "official" version, compatible with 1.5. User-made minimods to make the mod work with 1.6 should suffice; the RTRPE community is doing the same, with one of the team's unit balancing guys releasing an unofficial 1.6-compatible export_descr_unit.txt file every now and then for people who use the BI exe. 1.5 text files are compatible with 1.6, but the BI executable just adds a little bit more functionality.
The thing is. I don't own BI as well, and I can't afford it. Thusly, it would be bad from my point of view to see those who have BI being able to play more advanced versions of EB then those who don't.
Originally Posted by Jolt:
The thing is. I don't own BI as well, and I can't afford it. Thusly, it would be bad from my point of view to see those who have BI being able to play more advanced versions of EB then those who don't.
I don't understand your logic...They are already providing a free (and high quality) product that will work with your current copy of the game. If they choose to update the product on BI, why should that be a problem when they already support 1.5? If it is more advanced, than it simply becomes a cost v benefit analysis on your part to see if it is worth purchasing BI.The thing is. I don't own BI as well, and I can't afford it. Thusly, it would be bad from my point of view to see those who have BI being able to play more advanced versions of EB then those who don't.
Originally Posted by Jolt:
The thing is. I don't own BI as well, and I can't afford it. Thusly, it would be bad from my point of view to see those who have BI being able to play more advanced versions of EB then those who don't.
I think you misunderstand what is being said. Khelvan has repeatedly stated that EB 1.0 will be compatible with R:TW 1.5. What is being proposed here is that someone ports the next releases (0.8 to 1.0) to BI, which is a relatively simple operation.The thing is. I don't own BI as well, and I can't afford it. Thusly, it would be bad from my point of view to see those who have BI being able to play more advanced versions of EB then those who don't.
Originally Posted by Jolt:
The thing is. I don't own BI as well, and I can't afford it. Thusly, it would be bad from my point of view to see those who have BI being able to play more advanced versions of EB then those who don't.
Look, if you want that extra cheese, you have to pay up. Otherwise you still have a nice, free pizza to enjoy, and while it might not be as big and tasty as with the extras, it's still way better than you can expect to get for free. What I'm trying to say here is that there is absolutely no reason at all not to allow those who bought BI to ripe the benefits from it, when the port is so easy and those without it still can play.The thing is. I don't own BI as well, and I can't afford it. Thusly, it would be bad from my point of view to see those who have BI being able to play more advanced versions of EB then those who don't.
Originally Posted by mcsquared:
Has any consideration been given to porting EB to BI's 1.6 version? Some mod folks at RTRPE has already ported RTRPE v 1.5 to 1.6 and it works very well. This allows some units to swim, the shield wall, etc.
well, the current version of RTR PE is 1.5, and the coming version is 1.6, but 1.6 mainly deal with some unit balance and bug-fix, so i do not think RTR PE is going to be ported to BI1.6, that is, RTRPE 1.6 does not mean it will or have be ported to BI 1.6, right? Has any consideration been given to porting EB to BI's 1.6 version? Some mod folks at RTRPE has already ported RTRPE v 1.5 to 1.6 and it works very well. This allows some units to swim, the shield wall, etc.
Originally Posted by Acy Topia:
Look, if you want that extra cheese, you have to pay up. Otherwise you still have a nice, free pizza to enjoy, and while it might not be as big and tasty as with the extras, it's still way better than you can expect to get for free. What I'm trying to say here is that there is absolutely no reason at all not to allow those who bought BI to ripe the benefits from it, when the port is so easy and those without it still can play.
Well put, and a nice analogy Look, if you want that extra cheese, you have to pay up. Otherwise you still have a nice, free pizza to enjoy, and while it might not be as big and tasty as with the extras, it's still way better than you can expect to get for free. What I'm trying to say here is that there is absolutely no reason at all not to allow those who bought BI to ripe the benefits from it, when the port is so easy and those without it still can play.
What I meant with my last post is that I think it's a good idea that EB remain officially only a 1.5 mod, with a 1.6-compatible version released as an unofficial addition (by non-EB members, if need be) for those of us who own BI. Hell, all that would really need to be changed is perhaps export_descr_units.txt, and that would just be to add some of the BI unit characteristics (swimming etc). Just about everything else (loyalty, night fighting and so on) can already be added to 1.5, so you're not really missing out on much extra.
Originally Posted by Cheexsta:
...with a 1.6-compatible version released as an unofficial addition (by non-EB members, if need be) for those of us who own BI. Hell, all that would really need to be changed is perhaps export_descr_units.txt, and that would just be to add some of the BI unit characteristics (swimming etc).
What about the shield wall formation though? If the hoplite-style units are changed from phalanx to SW then it might require their stats to be significantly altered for balance reasons - which may require much playtesting to get it right. An official port by the EB team would thus be called for IMO....with a 1.6-compatible version released as an unofficial addition (by non-EB members, if need be) for those of us who own BI. Hell, all that would really need to be changed is perhaps export_descr_units.txt, and that would just be to add some of the BI unit characteristics (swimming etc).
Nitpick: current Hypaspistai hoplite style are in standard but very tight and close formation, except for the Basilikon Agemata, which current have the hoplite but I believe should be in line wiht the others. The Greek Hoplites, however, are not, and I think are not meant to be because they hold the line, unlike Hypaspistai types, which hold the flanks.
Easy port came from a modder, and anything 'easy' in a modder's term doesn't necessarily mean 'easy' in the sense of us non-modders.
Also, what does BI offer, really? A horde or two, which did not happen historically. Loyalty would just be harsh on the Selucids. Night fighting can already be implemented, as RTR has demonstrated. Religions were all essentially Meidterranean apart from a few, and this would once again be mainly a Selucid problem.
Also, what does BI offer, really? A horde or two, which did not happen historically. Loyalty would just be harsh on the Selucids. Night fighting can already be implemented, as RTR has demonstrated. Religions were all essentially Meidterranean apart from a few, and this would once again be mainly a Selucid problem.
Originally Posted by Tiberius:
Easy port came from a modder, and anything 'easy' in a modder's term doesn't necessarily mean 'easy' in the sense of us non-modders.
Also, what does BI offer, really? A horde or two, which did not happen historically. Loyalty would just be harsh on the Selucids. Night fighting can already be implemented, as RTR has demonstrated. Religions were all essentially Meidterranean apart from a few, and this would once again be mainly a Selucid problem.
I have played three games in RTRPE v1.6. First, the "easy port" was just that , an "easy port," hell, I was able to do it and I'm, no modder! Second, religion is a none factor in this game. Third, the shield wall is NOT available to phalanx formations, just other spearman like the Triarii (which is a none phalanx unit in RTRPE), and several barbarian factions. Fourth, there are no "horde" formations in RTRPE v1.6.Easy port came from a modder, and anything 'easy' in a modder's term doesn't necessarily mean 'easy' in the sense of us non-modders.
Also, what does BI offer, really? A horde or two, which did not happen historically. Loyalty would just be harsh on the Selucids. Night fighting can already be implemented, as RTR has demonstrated. Religions were all essentially Meidterranean apart from a few, and this would once again be mainly a Selucid problem.
Originally Posted by Ludens:
I think you misunderstand what is being said. Khelvan has repeatedly stated that EB 1.0 will be compatible with R:TW 1.5. What is being proposed here is that someone ports the next releases (0.8 to 1.0) to BI, which is a relatively simple operation.
This would be the correct statement. I think you misunderstand what is being said. Khelvan has repeatedly stated that EB 1.0 will be compatible with R:TW 1.5. What is being proposed here is that someone ports the next releases (0.8 to 1.0) to BI, which is a relatively simple operation.
Originally Posted by Acy Topia:
Look, if you want that extra cheese, you have to pay up. Otherwise you still have a nice, free pizza to enjoy, and while it might not be as big and tasty as with the extras, it's still way better than you can expect to get for free. What I'm trying to say here is that there is absolutely no reason at all not to allow those who bought BI to ripe the benefits from it, when the port is so easy and those without it still can play.
What if we can't afford extra cheese? While someone is making an hamburger that is supposed to be for all to enjoy, it sucks for those who can't actually buy the game to see it advance to BI, leaving the normal RTW obsolete. I misunderstood what was said, and I thought EB would move to BI.Look, if you want that extra cheese, you have to pay up. Otherwise you still have a nice, free pizza to enjoy, and while it might not be as big and tasty as with the extras, it's still way better than you can expect to get for free. What I'm trying to say here is that there is absolutely no reason at all not to allow those who bought BI to ripe the benefits from it, when the port is so easy and those without it still can play.
Originally Posted by Jolt:
This would be the correct statement.
What if we can't afford extra cheese? While someone is making an hamburger that is supposed to be for all to enjoy, it sucks for those who can't actually buy the game to see it advance to BI, leaving the normal RTW obsolete. I misunderstood what was said, and I thought EB would move to BI.
What about the people who can't afford MTW2? Should CA not release the game because some people who have MTW1, do not have the money to buy MTW2? If you can't afford to buy the "extra cheese" then live with RTW but let's not stop progress because of it! RTW has BEEN obsolete ever since EB and RTR came out! We're just extremely fortunate that so many improvements to this game are free!This would be the correct statement.
What if we can't afford extra cheese? While someone is making an hamburger that is supposed to be for all to enjoy, it sucks for those who can't actually buy the game to see it advance to BI, leaving the normal RTW obsolete. I misunderstood what was said, and I thought EB would move to BI.
Originally Posted by mcsquared:
I have played three games in RTRPE v1.6.
RTRPE v1.6 has not been released out yet, I have played three games in RTRPE v1.6.
how you can play three games based on it??
or you would be the internal tester of RTRPE 1.6, then you can play some mods based on it??
Originally Posted by Tiberius:
Also, what does BI offer, really? A horde or two, which did not happen historically. Loyalty would just be harsh on the Selucids. Night fighting can already be implemented, as RTR has demonstrated. Religions were all essentially Meidterranean apart from a few, and this would once again be mainly a Selucid problem.
Hordes didn't happen historically? What about the Cimbri and the Teutones? The Helvetii, or even the Gauls who invaded Greece and then formed Galatia? They could all be described as "hordes" as far as game mechanics go.Also, what does BI offer, really? A horde or two, which did not happen historically. Loyalty would just be harsh on the Selucids. Night fighting can already be implemented, as RTR has demonstrated. Religions were all essentially Meidterranean apart from a few, and this would once again be mainly a Selucid problem.
Loyalty would be good, IMHO, especially for the collapsing Seleucids. Though it would probably be better if civil wars were quite rare, but potentially devastating when they occurred. As an aside, Loyalty can already be added to 1.5 mods (see TFT v1.95)...
Originally Posted by Kierkegaard:
RTRPE v1.6 has not been released out yet,
how you can play three games based on it??
or you would be the internal tester of RTRPE 1.6, then you can play some mods based on it??
If your go to this website: http://forums.rometotalrealism.org/i...ic=21119&st=20, you will find the instructions for porting RTRPE to BI v1.6. Specifically look for "limes" June 19 instructions. The RTRPE update, v1.6 that's due out next week is NOT the samething!RTRPE v1.6 has not been released out yet,
how you can play three games based on it??
or you would be the internal tester of RTRPE 1.6, then you can play some mods based on it??
[QUOTE=Jolt]This would be the correct statement.
What if we can't afford extra cheese? While someone is making an hamburger that is supposed to be for all to enjoy, it sucks for those who can't actually buy the game to see it advance to BI, leaving the normal RTW obsolete. I misunderstood what was said, and I thought EB would move to BI.[/QUOTE
Personally, I like to play BOTH EB and RTR. If you can't afford BI you'll be out of luck with RTR when version 7 comes out; I quote from their website:
"Updated 05/19
Q. What version of Rome Total War will I need to play Rome Total Realism 7.0 and its future versions?
A. You will need a fully patched version of RTW Barbarian Invasion, also known as BI 1.6."
What if we can't afford extra cheese? While someone is making an hamburger that is supposed to be for all to enjoy, it sucks for those who can't actually buy the game to see it advance to BI, leaving the normal RTW obsolete. I misunderstood what was said, and I thought EB would move to BI.[/QUOTE
Personally, I like to play BOTH EB and RTR. If you can't afford BI you'll be out of luck with RTR when version 7 comes out; I quote from their website:
"Updated 05/19
Q. What version of Rome Total War will I need to play Rome Total Realism 7.0 and its future versions?
A. You will need a fully patched version of RTW Barbarian Invasion, also known as BI 1.6."
Originally Posted by mcsquared:
If your go to this website: http://forums.rometotalrealism.org/i...ic=21119&st=20, you will find the instructions for porting RTRPE to BI v1.6. Specifically look for "limes" June 19 instructions. The RTRPE update, v1.6 that's due out next week is NOT the samething!
yes, i get it. RTRPE 1.6 and RTRPE based on BI are of course two different things, If your go to this website: http://forums.rometotalrealism.org/i...ic=21119&st=20, you will find the instructions for porting RTRPE to BI v1.6. Specifically look for "limes" June 19 instructions. The RTRPE update, v1.6 that's due out next week is NOT the samething!
Mcsquared: err.. where did I mention shield walls or RTR hordes? I jsut said that BI doesn't really offer much more than 1.5.
Cheexsta: as you said, loyalty doesn't require BI, so that's not a benefit. The hordes would be small scale, nothing as major as the Huns, who, in spite of their power and size, are just represented by a few stacks. Also, unless the hordes come late in the game, it kind of defeats the whole objective, being a challenge, since the full stacks present in almost all the rebel lands are more threatening in comparison to the horde, which would be less of a danger. The migrations can be represented by a stack or two appearing, perhaps, as these besiege settlements and occupy them.
Cheexsta: as you said, loyalty doesn't require BI, so that's not a benefit. The hordes would be small scale, nothing as major as the Huns, who, in spite of their power and size, are just represented by a few stacks. Also, unless the hordes come late in the game, it kind of defeats the whole objective, being a challenge, since the full stacks present in almost all the rebel lands are more threatening in comparison to the horde, which would be less of a danger. The migrations can be represented by a stack or two appearing, perhaps, as these besiege settlements and occupy them.
[QUOTE=Tiberius]Mcsquared: err.. where did I mention shield walls or RTR hordes? I jsut said that BI doesn't really offer much more than 1.5.
Please consider the portion of my response above that was applicable to your comments, the rest, the shield wall and RTR hordes, a general response to other folks statements in this matter.
Please consider the portion of my response above that was applicable to your comments, the rest, the shield wall and RTR hordes, a general response to other folks statements in this matter.
Oh, alright. It just all looked like it was all about my post, because you listed the points out...
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