Re: A European Army ?
As everyone knows, I'm not from Europe, but I believe a European Army would be an excellent idea.
I also think (you guys will never go for this), but if you formed something similar to the US federal state system you could become extremely powerful. Very unlikely I know, but the idea isn't to bad imho.
Re: A European Army ?
hahaha..I can't wait until haruch...sorry Banquos Ghost logs on.I'd imagine there'd be quite a few people on the mainland who'd want to join a unit like the Royal Marines.
Have you any idea of the drop out rate from our peacetime commados?
Sorry old fruit but it won't happen.
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
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Re: A European Army ?
Europe can't even get their UN peacekeeping forces right - how are they expected to operate an actual army?
Re: A European Army ?
At the very least, propose a way to deal with the language barrier.
Student by day, bacon-eating narwhal by night (specifically midnight)
Re: A European Army ?
English.Originally Posted by Tiberius
GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.
Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944
Re: A European Army ?
Im sorry Doc Bean.But have i completely ,misunderstanded you or do you think Finland is former Soviet State? At the moment Finland has conscription army of about 500 000 men of population of 5 million. Finland has never belong into any military alliance after WWII.
Russia and Finland has long tradition of conflicts and i wouldnt worry about Russian invasion against Finland anytime soon.
About European Army.Yes it would be a cost effective solution,but how to create that would be a whole another ball game.Personally i wouldnt mind a military alliance between Nordic countries.Becouse for example Finland and Sweden have mutual military manouvers all the time.
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
Re: A European Army ?
You hit the nail on the head there with the exact reason why this wouldn't work. The EU cannot do anything without the most obscene amount of bureaucracy and deliberating - it would have to be overseen by all nations, probably with some ridiculous equal (or it least inequitable) representation of power. This would be the worst way to try and run an army and would make it a laughing stock. Without some very serious EU reorganisaton this just isn't a viable prospect.
The language barrier is also a great problem with this system. Many terrible mistakes were made in Bosnia due to poor communication between French and English speaking troops. While you can just say they should all speak English I cannot imagine the French accepting this for a second - especially considering that the United Kingdom has the 4th largest military (in terms of personnel) in the EU.
There are also serious differences in the calibre of units between nations - both in terms of training and equipment. If this were to be standardised acrosss the Union then many of our finest units would suffer from the process while pushing to maintain the best units would leave the UK and France looking at very large expenditure to keep their troops (and other nations') battle ready.
Finally, it's a bit pointless having a European Army if there is no standardised European foreign policy. Since the military of a civilised nation can be seen as the final branch of its diplomacy, without a common agreement on how to deal with other nations there could be no cohesion. Would the European Army have had to fight in Iraq? How would the EU feel about the heavy collaboration between the British and American militaries (especially the exchange of secrets)? Would such an army be duty bound to push for a withdrawl of American forces from Germany?
Cowardice is to run from the fear;
Bravery is not to never feel the fear.
Bravery is to be terrified as hell;
But to hold the line anyway.
Re: A European Army ?
Way too many soveriegnty issues coming up in such an effort -- let alone the soluable but prickly logistic issues.
By-the-by, as France told NATO's unified command effort to go ___ up a rope, however do you think they'll play second fiddle to an EU military without even a cold war to lend a sense of need?
Might try getting an expansion of the role/purpose of Interpol, standardize emergency service providers and the like to build toward this end.
Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 07-05-2006 at 20:28.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Re: A European Army ?
Traditionally, France has viewed and treated the European Community and later the Union as an extension of their power. (You could argue that with the EU referendum they woke out of this dream like a screaming nightmare)By-the-by, as France told NATO's unified command effort to go ___ up a rope, however do you think they'll play second fiddle to an EU military without even a cold war to lend a sense of need?
I don't see how most of the European people, especially the ones with proud military traditions, accepting that the EU tells what their armies should do. A European task force seems like a logical solution.
Military hardware should primarily be bought from EU countries - France, Brittain and Germany mainly- people will feel better about paying for the EU if part of it is pumped back into their industries.
The biggest problem I see for the establishment of such an army is recruitment. Who'd be willing to join a European army rather then their national one? Better payment is an incentive but I think the public feeling about EU troops getting paid better then their own would be less then cordial.
Then there's the problem of getting enough support from member states. I don't see how they'll agree to it being decided by qualified majority. Though in this case, I think it would only be fair to let it depend on the consent of every member state.
Re: A European Army ?
My mistake, I was looking for a country that people could identify with and would possibly be under Russian threat if they decided to try that old world domination thingie again
Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II
Re: A European Army ?
I completely agree with your post Ice, tis a good 'un.
A European army would not only allow all the nations in the EU to spend less on the military, but also specialise on specific parts of the military. And as many of our Capitalist friends will tell us, specialisation leads to far more efficiency and cohesion. It makes perfect sense.
The only reason against it is petty national interests, which is a pretty dibolical reason not to go with the idea.
Implementation is harder and that is often used as a 'reason' for not starting the process of an EU army in the first place, but I am sure after we got the ball rolling, debated and experimented with implementation things would fall into place.
I think there would have to clearly be a strong command system with as few people at the top as possible, for the system to work properly and it would also need a binding agreement of some sort as for the roles in which it would play, etc. It is a complicated process.
Anyway, a process which would be much easier if we had a far more federal approach to the EU.
Last edited by JAG; 07-05-2006 at 19:28.
GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.
Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944
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