A European Army ?

[Avicenna]

At the very least, propose a way to deal with the language barrier.

[JAG]

At the very least, propose a way to deal with the language barrier.

English.

[Kagemusha]

Im sorry Doc Bean.But have i completely ,misunderstanded you or do you think Finland is former Soviet State? At the moment Finland has conscription army of about 500 000 men of population of 5 million. Finland has never belong into any military alliance after WWII.
Russia and Finland has long tradition of conflicts and i wouldnt worry about Russian invasion against Finland anytime soon.
About European Army.Yes it would be a cost effective solution,but how to create that would be a whole another ball game.Personally i wouldnt mind a military alliance between Nordic countries.Becouse for example Finland and Sweden have mutual military manouvers all the time.

[Al Khalifah]

I think there would have to clearly be a strong command system with as few people at the top as possible, for the system to work properly and it would also need a binding agreement of some sort as for the roles in which it would play, etc. It is a complicated process.

You hit the nail on the head there with the exact reason why this wouldn't work. The EU cannot do anything without the most obscene amount of bureaucracy and deliberating - it would have to be overseen by all nations, probably with some ridiculous equal (or it least inequitable) representation of power. This would be the worst way to try and run an army and would make it a laughing stock. Without some very serious EU reorganisaton this just isn't a viable prospect.

The language barrier is also a great problem with this system. Many terrible mistakes were made in Bosnia due to poor communication between French and English speaking troops. While you can just say they should all speak English I cannot imagine the French accepting this for a second - especially considering that the United Kingdom has the 4th largest military (in terms of personnel) in the EU.

There are also serious differences in the calibre of units between nations - both in terms of training and equipment. If this were to be standardised acrosss the Union then many of our finest units would suffer from the process while pushing to maintain the best units would leave the UK and France looking at very large expenditure to keep their troops (and other nations') battle ready.

Finally, it's a bit pointless having a European Army if there is no standardised European foreign policy. Since the military of a civilised nation can be seen as the final branch of its diplomacy, without a common agreement on how to deal with other nations there could be no cohesion. Would the European Army have had to fight in Iraq? How would the EU feel about the heavy collaboration between the British and American militaries (especially the exchange of secrets)? Would such an army be duty bound to push for a withdrawl of American forces from Germany?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Way too many soveriegnty issues coming up in such an effort -- let alone the soluable but prickly logistic issues.

By-the-by, as France told NATO's unified command effort to go ___ up a rope, however do you think they'll play second fiddle to an EU military without even a cold war to lend a sense of need?

Might try getting an expansion of the role/purpose of Interpol, standardize emergency service providers and the like to build toward this end.

[Kralizec]

By-the-by, as France told NATO's unified command effort to go ___ up a rope, however do you think they'll play second fiddle to an EU military without even a cold war to lend a sense of need?

Traditionally, France has viewed and treated the European Community and later the Union as an extension of their power. (You could argue that with the EU referendum they woke out of this dream like a screaming nightmare)



I don't see how most of the European people, especially the ones with proud military traditions, accepting that the EU tells what their armies should do. A European task force seems like a logical solution.
Military hardware should primarily be bought from EU countries - France, Brittain and Germany mainly- people will feel better about paying for the EU if part of it is pumped back into their industries.
The biggest problem I see for the establishment of such an army is recruitment. Who'd be willing to join a European army rather then their national one? Better payment is an incentive but I think the public feeling about EU troops getting paid better then their own would be less then cordial.

Then there's the problem of getting enough support from member states. I don't see how they'll agree to it being decided by qualified majority. Though in this case, I think it would only be fair to let it depend on the consent of every member state.

[Zalmoxis]

I don't think a single European army should be made.

[IrishArmenian]

It will not work until Europe is a unfifed alliance of states. I can see a couple of countries who get warm and fuzzy thinking about each other making an effort to incorporate both armies, but not on a continental scale. Which brings me to this: where is the borders of Europe?
Good idea though, and it would be great if not for many ignorant politicians.
Why is Russia always the bad guy?

[King Ragnar]

Even if people tried which i wouldnt, it would never work, too many people would complain about how to run it etc. Its not like a merica where we can all become states because too many of the countries in Europe wouldnt want to lose their national identity.

I most certainley wouldnt want Britian to be apart of it, by all means the europeans can try but just leave us out thank you.

[Perplexed]

where is the borders of Europe?

The commonly excepted view is that Europe borders Asia in the east with the Ural Mountains, Caucasus Mountains, and the Straits of Bosphorus. In the south it borders Africa at the Straits of Gibraltar.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There are several things that need to be considered here, for starters the EU is a treaty Alliance rather than a state, secondly would this mean that the services would swear to the EU, not their contries or monarchs?

For an EU army to work you need the following:

One General Staff with members chosen soley on merit if this means the army is run by the Germans and the British and the Navy is run by the British and French, so be it. Its not going to happen.

Equipment harmonisation, everybody uses German rifles, British tanks and French planes. Its not going to happen.

Every country provides to all three services, no specialisation. It might be cheaper but its stupid. Lets say the British and French provide 75% of the sea power and then in an EU v USA war Britain goes with the US. The EU is screwed, lets say Germany provides all the infantry, they get nuked and everyone else is screwed.

There will be an EU Army when the EU becomes an actual country. That isn't going to happen because unlike the US we are already established entities with our own identies and beliefs. Look at the way Louis and I snipe at each other when the EU comes up, that goes back a thousand year.

[doc_bean]

It will not work until Europe is a unfifed alliance of states.

Well, that's part of what I was wondering, could a confederate army work ?

I would loathe for Europe to become like the US with useless state parliaments, an ever growing federal government and that constant conflict of interests bewteen state and federal politicians leading to a decrease of personal liberty instead of the protection is was supposed to provide (seperate discussion, and no offence to the Americans meant).

Also, I simply can't see France and England being part of the same country. The Scots and the English barely manage to share one, a lot of Northern Irish would certainly rather be actual Irish, the Basques keep demanding independence and Catalonia is becomming its own state within Spain. I don't believe we can unite Europe, there's too much history for that ever to happen. I do hope that we can live together and work together. Because seperatly, we're small peas...

I can see a couple of countries who get warm and fuzzy thinking about each other making an effort to incorporate both armies, but not on a continental scale. Which brings me to this: where is the borders of Europe?

Different question really. For the record I don't think Turkey is a part of Europe. I also believe most Turks would agree with me on this.

Good idea though, and it would be great if not for many ignorant politicians.

Well, an army costs money, war is very (VERY) unpopular in most of mainland Europe. It would be a tough sell even for a good politician.

Why is Russia always the bad guy?

They're big, they've got nukes, they follow their own path (they don't even want to be in our little club !), they have 'media wars' with the EU over countries like Ukraine and Belarus. They've got Putin, who I find by far the scariest leader in the modern world. Bush just appears clueless, Kim Jong Il seems caught up in the cult like politics of NK, but Putin, he's smart.

[doc_bean]

Im sorry Doc Bean.But have i completely ,misunderstanded you or do you think Finland is former Soviet State?

My mistake, I was looking for a country that people could identify with and would possibly be under Russian threat if they decided to try that old world domination thingie again