2 fast 2 furious Phalanx

**soibean** · 07-06-2006, 02:17

I was wondering if there has been any success or progress in slowing down the formation and mobility of a phalanx. I dont mean in the sense that they march quickly, I mean the fact that if they are combatting some one at their front and are hit in the rear they can spin around and form a perfect phalanx once again to push the enemy off. It gets ridiculous sometimes when trying to flank these guys.

**Comrade Alexeo** · 07-06-2006, 02:23

The "phalanx formation" is hardcoded, meaning that until CA releases the source code for RTW (probably never, or at least well after MTW2, built on the same engine), it can't be touched by our hands

**soibean** · 07-06-2006, 02:28

I was hoping alexander tw allowed for more modding options but clearly not

**Reverend Joe** · 07-06-2006, 04:41

Nope. You're just going to have to live with the "Fast and Furious: Gaugamela Drift" phalanx.

Just remember: charge, make contact, pull back, repeat.

**greywolf** · 07-06-2006, 05:43

hahaha! the speed that phalanxes react to threats from the rear and flanks really is a problem. i just came face to face with this last night when i fought a rebel army composed of 5 phalanx units and 2 peasant units. i outnumbered them at least 2 to 1. i had my two archer units and 3 velites pepper them with arrows and javs while the rest of my army encircled them.

problem was when i tried to go around with my 4 cavarly units to get at the peasants (one of which was the general's unit) the phalanxes kept turning around, thus getting in my way and causing me pain.

RETREAT!

anyway, i was forced to rely on the missile troops to sufficiently reduce their numbers and morale before i had the confidence to attack in force. good thing i managed to kill their general during one of my initial cavalry charges though. that probably helped.

**edyzmedieval** · 07-06-2006, 09:27

Originally Posted by Zorba

Nope. You're just going to have to live with the "Fast and Furious: Gaugamela Drift" phalanx.

Stop it man...My belly hurts...

**econ21** · 07-06-2006, 09:27

I was wondering about suggesting EB make phalanxes more fast n furious. Specifically, has anyone got any reactions to the non-phalanx hoplites in RTR Platinum? What they've done is keep a large, dense, square-ish formation but removed the phalanx option. They run, they charge and they very nice. They also don't have swords, so they never get messed up by switching to swords when fighting cavalry.

I find phalanxes in RTW either too much or too little. Under my control against the AI, they are too much - I can (slowly) roll over nearly all non-phalanx infantry (although they are surprisingly weak against cavalry in vanilla). Under AI control against me, they are just lamentably slow and easy to flank - fighting them is almost unsporting. By contrast, non-phalanx hoplites in RTR Platinum are an effective but not uber unit.

RTR Platinum keeps the phalanx for the sarissa armed units, just not the long spear hoplite types.

**Keba** · 07-06-2006, 10:21

Originally Posted by econ21

Under AI control against me, they are just lamentably slow and easy to flank - fighting them is almost unsporting. By contrast, non-phalanx hoplites in RTR Platinum are an effective but not uber unit.

RTR Platinum keeps the phalanx for the sarissa armed units, just not the long spear hoplite types.

The are supposed to be slow and easy to flank.

Otherwise, I liked the representation of hoplites in RTR Platinum, it is more in line with the battle-line that was used than the phalanx CA gave them. Since I saw BI I was thinking 'how can I give hoplites the shieldwall instead of the phalanx', but those are beyond my meager skills.

**econ21** · 07-06-2006, 12:06

Originally Posted by Keba

The are supposed to be slow and easy to flank.

Sure, but the point is that the AI does not seem to know how to use the phalanxes to avoid being crippled by the above. They typically don't advance with a solid phalanx line, which is what a human can do to steamroller most AI enemies. But instead, the AI phalanx line breaks up and verrs off at the last minute in unit-vs-unit match ups. That makes them almost trivially easy to defeat piecemeal. (This observation is mainly based on 1.2 but I don't think it has got much better).

I think the RTR Platinum hoplite formations better suit the AI tactics - they have the speed to catch their targets and, not having the switching to sword problem, they are more robust to flanking.

**paullus** · 07-06-2006, 13:49

Eb had mentioned having those sort of units in the works some time ago...basic Greek hoplites, as mercenaries and as recruitable units in some of the Greek areas. I could be wrong though.

And as far as the swing around thing, I find that pulling up just short still wreaks havoc on the enemy morale. Do that once or twice (without incurring any casualties), and a final charge should break them easily. OR, if your cav is strong enough (like hetairoi, kataphraktoi etc) go ahead and make the phalanx change direction, and order your phalanx formations to move into the enemy phalanx, now from the rear. It can be pretty murderous.

EDIT: I thought people had said months ago that phalanx behavoir increased with 1.5/1.6. Is that not true, or is it just not true for their movement?

**econ21** · 07-06-2006, 22:39

Originally Posted by paullus

I thought people had said months ago that phalanx behavoir increased with 1.5/1.6. Is that not true...?

Dunno - I have not faced many phalanx heavy armies with 1.5/1.6 yet; what I have read from other posters is contradictory.

In RTR Platinum, the team were talking about some weird phalanx "mush" or something, when two phalanxes meet. I got the impression that moving to 1.5 actually made phalanxes more problematic in some ways although I never really understood the details. I think the Platinum team found some work arounds for most of these new problems though, or even decided they were features not problems.