Reducing zeal as a catholic

**Matty** · 07-16-2006, 23:12

I've had a quick search of the forum but nothing seems immediately to hand - I'm currently the Hungarians and every Catholic nation and his Cardinal is busy sending crusades through my lands. My main troop producing country, Hungary, has a zeal of 71% and I'm losing men to these crusades at a frightening rate. With the Golden Horde parked on my eastern border. 60 men units get reduced to 28 each turn.

What do I do to reduce zeal? I don't want to destroy churches as I need the morale bonus (playing on expert, XL mod) - any ideas appreciated.

**Geezer57** · 07-17-2006, 01:47

Well, you can always park a pack of Inquisitors (preferably Grand Inquisitors) in the province(s) you wish to affect, and wait for the burning to start. Zeal will plummet dramatically - be sure to remove the Inqs as soon as the Inquisition is declared to be over, or when you reach the low level of zeal desired, as they'll start to raise zeal when not burning heretics. The cure may be worse than the condition, though - it's a drastic way to take care of the problem.

If the Crusade target is out of your territory, I like to put a minimal garrison (just enough to ensure loyalty) inside the fortification, then move all the other troops out to an adjacent province. Try to anticipate the Crusade path, and move all your good-quality troops out before they arrive. I've played "musical chairs" with Crusades quite often, moving huge armies around just ahead of them, and eventually they usually move off and leave me alone.

You have to keep a close eye on your neighbors, as they may sometimes try to take advantage of your temporarily minimal garrisons.

**Sensei Warrior** · 07-17-2006, 03:04

I agree with Geezer. Just to note you might start to see an increase in zeal. Inquisitors, used in moderation have that effect on provences ... until an Inquisition starts then zeal will plummet.

So just be sure you use a pack of Inquisitors, meaning more than one. The more you use , the quicker the Inquisition will start and then spiral out of control.

**Roark** · 07-17-2006, 03:33

Yeah, burn your populace. 'Nuff said.

**gaijinalways** · 07-17-2006, 05:01

Yeah, crusading neighbors are a pain. Thats's why rebel neighbors are better.

**Sensei Warrior** · 07-17-2006, 05:39

Of course whats good for the goose ...

You could make sure your crusades wander by your more annoying Catholic neighbors hoovering up their troops.

**Matty** · 07-17-2006, 08:02

Thanks all. Budapest has always been such a hotbed of heresy, it could do with a little cleansing fire...

EDIT. The results were an increase in zeal to 75% for 3-4 turns before the burning started with 4 inquisitors. Zeal dropped to 45% after the first burning and 28% after the second, after which I sent the boys to twist the nipples of the Germans.

**Deus ret.** · 07-17-2006, 18:45

I'd like to know the opposite: what method other than building churches etc. is there to raise zeal further? Inquisitors were already mentioned, but if I understood correctly they start by dealing a blow to a given province's zeal. The thing is, I'm playing MedMod where chapter houses are unique and e.g. the HRE have theirs in Burgundy.....and the Cumans are in Prussia, so it has to march solely through own territory. Since crusades don't just drain the garrisons to increase their strength but also seem to draw some troops from the province itself, it would be a good thing to have it march through extremely high zeal provinces, minimalizing losses to my garrisons (i.e. by moving them out of the way) but nevertheless pushing the crusade to an impressive size.

In addition, most of my generals/governors have an abundance of piety but severely lack dread, so upping some zeal rates should improve governance in general, a good thing for the notoriously unstable HRE.

**Sensei Warrior** · 07-17-2006, 18:56

I found the best way to increase zeal in your Provences is to put a Governor with the Zealot line of vices in charge of the Provences where you want to raise zeal.

The Zealot Line

Fervent
He applies religious doctrine to the way he lives his life and the way he governs. +1 piety, +10% zeal when governing.

Zealot
He follows religious doctrine to the letter, and encourages those under his control to do likewise. +20% zeal when governing.

True Zealot
He follows religious doctrine to the letter, and uses his position to force others to do likewise. +30% zeal when governing.

Secret Fanatic
He follows religious doctrine to the letter, and when governing secretly misuses his position to eliminate heretics. +30% zeal when governing.

Fanatic
He follows religious doctrine to the letter, arresting and executing any he judges to be heretics. +40% zeal when governing, +1 dread.

I also think the line is self fufilling. If a governor gets Fervent it seems like its only a matter of time before he becomes a Zealot.

I am not entirely sure if there is a way to do it in the opponents Provences except for the Inquisitor method which is unstable. Also there are a number of events that raise zeal in specific Provences or Factions at given times.

**macsen rufus** · 07-18-2006, 12:34

Inquisitors can really enhance zeal at first - in a fit of pique after the Pope re-emerged I sent inquisitors after all of his generals, and they burnt loads of them! Zeal in the whole of Italy was at 100% for quite a while. Alas he won't let me crusade right now, so I can't pilfer all his troops, and the post-Inquisition droop is setting in, and zeal is beginning to fall again, after maybe ten years or so of burning.

**Geezer57** · 07-18-2006, 15:24

You can minimize the zeal drop effect of Inquisitors by keeping them busy doing anything other than trying the local populace. For example, you can hire a non-catholic mercenary unit (Muslim troops are good) with low piety. Then turn your Inquisitor(s) loose on them - if the trial is successful, you'll only lose one man, and can start over next turn.

The drawback is a high level of micro-management, but there are real benefits to be had.

**Sensei Warrior** · 07-18-2006, 22:24

Nice geezer I never thought of that.

**Roark** · 07-19-2006, 01:23

Just make sure your provinces stay Catholic by keeping at least two Bishops in each province. Pop an Inquisitor in to raise zeal, and keep some assassins handy to take care of any wandering Imams or Alims. I've never seen an Inquisitor go on a burning rampage when the religion in a province was 100% Catholic.

**Ironside** · 07-19-2006, 07:48

Originally Posted by Geezer57

You can minimize the zeal drop effect of Inquisitors by keeping them busy doing anything other than trying the local populace. For example, you can hire a non-catholic mercenary unit (Muslim troops are good) with low piety. Then turn your Inquisitor(s) loose on them - if the trial is successful, you'll only lose one man, and can start over next turn.

The drawback is a high level of micro-management, but there are real benefits to be had.

This method is exellent. In one campaign I killed off the entire Sicilian royal line with (grand)inquisitors. Point is that it was in Asia minor and the zeal was down to zero when I began. After a few decades it was up 100% and the chance of burning the king was 25%.

IIRC you actually only need one inquisitor to make the trial, as long as he succeeds, the others won't burn the population, but if he fails, "heretics" will burn. Not 100% sure on this one, as it was a few years ago.