Iraq- Al Qaeda/Taliban Connection?

[Ice]

I was hesitant in posting this and admit that the country this is from may not be Iraq, but it seems there is a good chance.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202277,00.html

An Arab regime, possibly Iraq, supplied how-to manuals for Arab operatives working throughout Afghanistan before 9/11, and provided military assistance to the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

I just found this interesting.

[Keba]

It's Fox, of course they're going to insinuate it's Iraq.

[Ice]

It's Fox, of course they're going to insinuate it's Iraq.

Another reason why I was hesitant. Yes, it's fox, I realize they lean to right in their news coverage, but I'm sure they just don't pull these stories from nowhere.

[Keba]

Meh, my grandmother could write a better manual ... well, she was considered a terrorist by the Nazis in WWII.

Surprisingly technical and informed my ass.

Anyways, it is possibly Iraq ... or it is also possibly any other Arab country.

[Ronin]

Another reason why I was hesitant. Yes, it's fox, I realize they lean to right in their news coverage, but I'm sure they just don't pull these stories from nowhere.

"lean to the righ"????


FOX has gone over the rightwing deep end a long time ago....it´s not just a "lean"

[Ice]

"lean to the righ"????


FOX has gone over the rightwing deep end a long time ago....it´s not just a "lean"

Yes, you read correctly, lean. They aren't a state run fascist news channel.

[Pannonian]

Another reason why I was hesitant. Yes, it's fox, I realize they lean to right in their news coverage, but I'm sure they just don't pull these stories from nowhere.

I thought they were notorious for doing exactly that.

[lars573]

I was hesitant in posting this and admit that the country this is from may not be Iraq, but it seems there is a good chance.

It's not that Saddam wouldn't have wanted to help Al Qaeda it's that Al Qaeda would never knowingly take it. Al Qaeda considered "godless Socialists" (like Saddam) as much the enemy as infidels.

[Tribesman]

I wonder if this "terrorist manual" is yet another translation of a californian survivalist handbook , courtesy of Fox yet again

[Ronin]

Yes, you read correctly, lean. They aren't a state run fascist news channel.

well....I´ll agree that they aren´t state run......

as for the rest....

[Kralizec]

FOX has gone over the rightwing deep end a long time ago....it´s not just a "lean"

Yes, you read correctly, lean. They aren't a state run fascist news channel.

Ronin says rightwing...you read facsist...

why do you hate freedom?

[Ice]

Ronin says rightwing...you read facsist...

why do you hate freedom?

Must be all that communist brainwashing.

[Aenlic]

Or perhaps it was a Christian-based homeschool brainwashing. Very little difference in terms of technique or results.

[Ice]

Or perhaps it was a Christian-based homeschool brainwashing. Very little difference in terms of technique or results.

Yeah going church that one time every four months must have done it.

[Aenlic]

Well considering your signature, Ice. It seems to me you've bought into someone's brainwashing. I'm just trying to figure out whose.

[Ice]

Well considering your signature, Ice. It seems to me you've bought into someone's brainwashing. I'm just trying to figure out whose.

What part gave it away? The fact that I dislike communism or the american flag?

[Aenlic]

The fact that you seem to think communism is only Marx and Lenin is the giveaway.

Perhaps a better quote would be:

"Someone who reads Marx and Lenin and claims to understand communism is like someone who only reads the first page of the Bible and claims to understand Christianity."

[Ice]

The fact that you seem to think communism is only Marx and Lenin is the giveaway.

Perhaps a better quote would be:

"Someone who reads Marx and Lenin and claims to understand communism is like someone who only reads the first page of the Bible and claims to understand Christianity."

Well, Marx and Engels were the orginal thinkers/foudners of communism. Lenin attempted to implant communism, with a few changes, hence it became known as Leninism. I don't really see anything wrong with the quote.

[Aenlic]

Well, Marx and Engels were the orginal thinkers/foudners of communism. Lenin attempted to implant communism, with a few changes, hence it became known as Leninism. I don't really see anything wrong with the quote.

No they weren't. I'll give you a clue. One of the names in my sig will help. Here's another name, Proudhon. How about one of the members of the boyars, named Peter Kropotkin? I can forgive your misunderstanding. Education in the USA is focused on oversimplifications. In the case of communism, that means talking about - at best, and rarely even that - Marx. Just because he wrote a book called the Communist Manifesto doesn't mean he invented communism. That's almost like saying that because Julia Child wrote books about cooking and with cooking in the title, she invented cooking. Silly notion, really. Lenin took communism and invented what he called "war communism" which further refined Marx's statist communism. Here's another clue. Statist communism, a la Marx, isn't the only kind. Then after Lenin, Stalin took what was barely communism, Lenin's "war communism" as such, and turned it into what was essentially centrally-controlled planned capitalism and totalitarianism under the name of communism. And Stalin's communism is no more communism than the People's Republic of China is a republic.

For a few other names, should you actually wish to extinguish the limited scope of what appears to be your concept of the history of communism. Look up the comte de Saint-Simon (who died when Marx was only 7) or Charles Fourier(who died when Marx was only 18).

Things like this are why I get a little peeved at quotes like the one in your sig. Understand communism? Really? It's not personal, though. I still have hope that your mind is open, like a parachute.

[rotorgun]

This little excerpt from the article is rather interesting.

Fox News and Robison last week revealed the contents of a 1999 notebook kept by an Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) operative. That notebook detailed how Saddam's agents aggressively pursued and entered into a diplomatic, intelligence, and security arrangement with the Taliban and Islamist extremists operating in Afghanistan — years before the 9/11 attacks.

It's really amazing to me that this is exactly what the Bush administration was doing when attempting to negotiate with the Taliban in order to have their assistance in building an oil pipeline in Afghanistan. This fiasco led to the option of "either you will accept our carpet of gold, or be covered in a carpet of bombs" statement prior to the 9/11 attacks which ultimately led to the invasion of Afghanistan.

Poser: Where the Taliban and Al Queda pushed into more aggresive action by these threats?

[Ice]

No they weren't. I'll give you a clue. One of the names in my sig will help. Here's another name, Proudhon. How about one of the members of the boyars, named Peter Kropotkin? I can forgive your misunderstanding. Education in the USA is focused on oversimplifications. In the case of communism, that means talking about - at best, and rarely even that - Marx. Just because he wrote a book called the Communist Manifesto doesn't mean he invented communism. That's almost like saying that because Julia Child wrote books about cooking and with cooking in the title, she invented cooking. Silly notion, really. Lenin took communism and invented what he called "war communism" which further refined Marx's statist communism. Here's another clue. Statist communism, a la Marx, isn't the only kind. Then after Lenin, Stalin took what was barely communism, Lenin's "war communism" as such, and turned it into what was essentially centrally-controlled planned capitalism and totalitarianism under the name of communism. And Stalin's communism is no more communism than the People's Republic of China is a republic.

For a few other names, should you actually wish to extinguish the limited scope of what appears to be your concept of the history of communism. Look up the comte de Saint-Simon (who died when Marx was only 7) or Charles Fourier(who died when Marx was only 18).

Things like this are why I get a little peeved at quotes like the one in your sig. Understand communism? Really? It's not personal, though. I still have hope that your mind is open, like a parachute.

Gah. I knew all the information after "Lenin",but I had no idea about the first part. Thanks. . Guess I should change the sig too.

[Xiahou]

It's really amazing to me that this is exactly what the Bush administration was doing when attempting to negotiate with the Taliban in order to have their assistance in building an oil pipeline in Afghanistan.

Wow, I cant believe that myth is still going strong.....the Clinton administration was in favor of a Unocal plan to build a pipeline thru Afghanistan- then governor Bush supported an Enron plan, which had a pipeline going thru the Caspian sea.

[rotorgun]

Wow, I cant believe that myth is still going strong.....the Clinton administration was in favor of a Unocal plan to build a pipeline thru Afghanistan- then governor Bush supported an Enron plan, which had a pipeline going thru the Caspian sea.

Myth? Why do you say this? I don't kow about any Clinton Administration dealings with Unocal, but perhaps you will be so kind as to provide a scource.
Here are at least three scources that explain the concept that has been in the works since the 1990's. The first is about the failed negotiaitions with Unocal and the Taliban:

http://www.unocal.com/uclnews/98news/centgas.htm

The second is about the Enron fiasco, which wanted to terminate a pipline in India to provide natural gas that was to originate from the Caspian sea, through Turmenistan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. This also failed because of the pesky little Taliban being in the way of international investment:

http://www.alternet.org/story/12525/

Finally, only after the removal of the Taliban by the Bush Administratin, made convienient by their alliance with the dread Al Queda, who so obligingly attacked the World Trade Center, the deal is closed:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2608713.stm

It seems that the poor Taliban should have accepted the offer of a carpet of gold; if only they could have reformed themselves.

Don't get me wrong. I think that the Taliban is a regime that was setting Afghanistan back to the middle ages. I am glad that they are gone. I just like to be honest with myself that this war is much more about economic gain, than about "freeing" anyone from oppression. If that is a side effect of the war's true aims, than great. Those who perpetuated it will have to stand the judgement of history. I'm just one of the poor bastards who is in line to implement their Von Clauswitzian plan of "politics by other means". If I am to fight, and possibly die for the "plan", I only want to know the real truth. There is no need to patronize me, or lie to get me to "do my job" as a soldier. The very thought insults my sense of honor, and makes a mockery of my service.

As for my opinion of the alleged Iraq/Al Queda connections: GAH!

[whyidie]

Gah. I knew all the information after "Lenin",but I had no idea about the first part. Thanks. . Guess I should change the sig too.

Wow. Big of you to say as much. With the whole "parachute" and "clue here, clue there" lines I would have at least found a punctuation out of place in one of his 1,000 or so posts and focused on that :)



**The above comments were made with absoutely no knowledge of any past history of the two posters in question.

[Ice]

Wow. Big of you to say as much. With the whole "parachute" and "clue here, clue there" lines I would have at least found a punctuation out of place in one of his 1,000 or so posts and focused on that :)



**The above comments were made with absoutely no knowledge of any past history of the two posters in question.

Well, he was right. I honestly didn't know any of those people.

[whyidie]

Well, he was right. I honestly didn't know any of those people.

Its a rare feat to be honest of ones lack of knowledge. Well done.

In the same spirit I too learned from his post.

[Aenlic]

Well, he was right. I honestly didn't know any of those people.

Dang, Ice. It doesn't matter at all to me what your ideology is or becomes. You can disagree with any or all of what I post; but just the act of saying "I didn't know" is incredible. You've just jumped up into my list of the top 10 most honest people on these forums. To me the most honest are those who are intellectually honest - with themselves and others. You are right up there, man. Well done! I'm not being facetious in any way here. I am truly impressed.

Edit: By the way. I'm not on my own list. I have a tendency to get just as pedantic and dogmatic as the next guy. But do I try. You didn't just try; you achieved!

[Ice]

Dang, Ice. It doesn't matter at all to me what your ideology is or becomes. You can disagree with any or all of what I post; but just the act of saying "I didn't know" is incredible. You've just jumped up into my list of the top 10 most honest people on these forums. To me the most honest are those who are intellectually honest - with themselves and others. You are right up there, man. Well done! I'm not being facetious in any way here. I am truly impressed.

Edit: By the way. I'm not on my own list. I have a tendency to get just as pedantic and dogmatic as the next guy. But do I try. You didn't just try; you achieved!

Thank you for the compliments.