A REALLY Interesting Preview Of M2TW

[TB666]

if i can run RTW on low, do you think i can run M2TW in very low?

I would think so.

Also, 3 battles, including one siege, all with lots of men, over in 20 minutes?

It is probably like in the RTW previews.
CA showed them something and then moved on without finishing the battle.

it probably points at weak AI more then anything.

First off is the age-old grudge match between the English and the French, set in lush surroundings flanked on both sides by dense forests. With Roxburgh's English forces dug in along a ridge, the French infantry launch an audacious bid to turn themselves into gallic kebabs as they march straight onto a row of spikes placed down by his archers (an all-new feature), while they send their cavalry through the trees to launch a surprise attack. Misjudged in the extreme, Roxburgh quickly dispatches an attempted foot soldier diversion, leaving the French mounted knights isolated and vulnerable.

Doesn't sound stupid to me.
It didn't work true but atleast the AI didn't send it's entire army up through the spikes and instead it tried to flank the army.
While going through a forest with cavalry isn't very smart, it had no other place to go, it was either that or the spikes.
If it went through the spikes then it would have been a sign of a weak AI.

[Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett]

the French infantry launch an audacious bid to turn themselves into gallic kebabs as they march straight onto a row of spikes placed down by his archers (an all-new feature)

Does anyone with any historical knowledge know how these things actually worked? From my uninformed perspective I imagined that if a force of infantry had no other option than to move through an area guarded by these spikes, then rather than just charge through as normal they'd instead move really slowly suffering only a few losses but arriving at the otherside piecemeal and voulnerable to attack. I suppose this would depend on the density of the spikes, but I just can't see a armoured person willingly charging a wooden spike with enough momentum to pierce his armour.

To be fair to CA this might be how it happens in game, and the kebab comment might of just been the journalist embelishing what he saw. Either way it's difficult to assess whether or not this was a viable strategy from the perspective of the AI unless we know exactly what kind of obstacle these spikes represent and what kind of losses can be expected when forced to move through them.

[Vladimir]

Mercilessly slaughter the prisoners you capture during a battle (a feature reprised from the original Medieval) and your general's 'dread' rating will rocket, making enemies fearful on the battlefield and civilians more obedient within cities. And while showing mercy in war may make your generals a target for 'big girly girl' remarks from opposing armies, at least the people will love them should you order them to babysit a settlement. Unless of course they raid the fridge, invite over their girlfriend and leave sticky stains on the sofa, in which case, they could be faced with a revolution.

[King Bob VI]

Don't be worried comrades, for even though the enemy troops may be running circles around themselves and marching over cliffs, the gentle swaying of each individual blade of grass in the breeze shall keep us entertained for many months.

[CBR]

Does anyone with any historical knowledge know how these things actually worked? From my uninformed perspective I imagined that if a force of infantry had no other option than to move through an area guarded by these spikes, then rather than just charge through as normal they'd instead move really slowly suffering only a few losses but arriving at the otherside piecemeal and voulnerable to attack. I suppose this would depend on the density of the spikes, but I just can't see a armoured person willingly charging a wooden spike with enough momentum to pierce his armour.

Longbowmen's stakes are meant to stop cavalry. They cannot have been too dense as that would have prevented the archers from going forward as we know they did at Agincourt. If infantry gets impaled on stakes in M2TW then that is 100% BS


CBR

[professorspatula]

I'm not surprised if that preview brushed aside the criticisms of AI as if it wasn't important - this is the same magazine that didn't actually review Rome Total War, they just presented a glorified press release with a 90%+ score at the end and made no real mention of problems with the game. They even said RTW had 'AI so great Hannibal could be in charge'. Which Hannibal are they talking about exactly? Some drunken unwashed tramp co-incidently called Hannibal who hasn't seen a bath in his life time, let alone a battlefield? PC Zone seem much like all the other games publications these days: full of over the top enthusiasm for games and developers they're in bed with.

Regardless, MTW2 seems a lot more promising than RTW. Who knows, a few more TWs down the line and we might edge towards the perfect real time strategy game.

[Puzz3D]

Who knows, a few more TWs down the line and we might edge towards the perfect real time strategy game.

Yes. You'll have health packs strewn around the battlefield to replenish your hitpoints.

[professorspatula]

Yes. You'll have health packs strewn around the battlefield to replenish your hitpoints.

Well, that's what I'm hoping for. And quad-damage powerups when I need my general riding his 480BHP Mustang steed to blitz the enemy pikemen who's close range light sabers usually just kill him outright. Come on CA, sort yourself out. We're waiting for the TW revolution to begin!

[screwtype]

Well, that's what I'm hoping for. And quad-damage powerups

Aw, ya beat me to it, professor!

[The Spartan (Returns)]

Well, that's what I'm hoping for. And quad-damage powerups when I need my general riding his 480BHP Mustang steed to blitz the enemy pikemen who's close range light sabers usually just kill him outright.

[Yosemite]

Well, that's what I'm hoping for. And quad-damage powerups when I need my general riding his 480BHP Mustang steed to blitz the enemy pikemen who's close range light sabers usually just kill him outright. Come on CA, sort yourself out. We're waiting for the TW revolution to begin!

You forgot the holy sword of great redemption +10...

[screwtype]

Yes. You'll have health packs strewn around the battlefield to replenish your hitpoints.

And power-ups. Don't forget the power-ups!

[Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett]

Longbowmen's stakes are meant to stop cavalry. They cannot have been too dense as that would have prevented the archers from going forward as we know they did at Agincourt. If infantry gets impaled on stakes in M2TW then that is 100% BS


CBR

I see, thank you. There was something that didn't seem to sit right about the concept of being able to build such an effective barrier against enemy infantry. Can you imagine how horrible it's going to be to fight a bridge battle against the English, if this is the case?

[Lucjan]

Does anyone with any historical knowledge know how these things actually worked? From my uninformed perspective I imagined that if a force of infantry had no other option than to move through an area guarded by these spikes, then rather than just charge through as normal they'd instead move really slowly suffering only a few losses but arriving at the otherside piecemeal and voulnerable to attack. I suppose this would depend on the density of the spikes, but I just can't see a armoured person willingly charging a wooden spike with enough momentum to pierce his armour.

To be fair to CA this might be how it happens in game, and the kebab comment might of just been the journalist embelishing what he saw. Either way it's difficult to assess whether or not this was a viable strategy from the perspective of the AI unless we know exactly what kind of obstacle these spikes represent and what kind of losses can be expected when forced to move through them.

When I read that I interpreted it in three different ways at the same time.
1 - I thought instantaneously to the wooden stake scene in Braveheart, where the infantry waited until the very last second to drop down and lift the stakes into the air, effectively implailing the entire english cavalry charge and destroying the greatest asset they had on the field that day. I could see the archers waiting until the last second to impale some charging infantry with hidden stakes like that, then charging or firing on the demoralized and scared crapless infantry that just suddenly got a mouthful of spears that hadn't previously existed only a second or so ago.
2 - I thought of the possibility of a really dense hedge of large spikes pre-placed into the ground. The infantry try to move too quickly through the hedge and their comrades in the rear accidentally push the front ranks into spikes as they try to shove their way through.
3 - The infantry try to quickly move through the spikes and the archers unload on them as they do, the kebab part coming from infantry being impaled while wading through the spikes by arrows or infantry who see this happening trying to route and falling over the obstacles, impaling themselves on them in the process.


I would love for nothing more than to hope that the infantry didn't just blatantly charge a wall of spikes it could clearly see.

[Incongruous]

fatality moves

Mortal Combat Deadly Strategy!
The great warriors Byzantium and France joined forces to purchase the ultimate warriors, Scorpio Swordsmen! Get over Here!

[The Spartan (Returns)]

Get over Here!

Then FINISH HIM!!! a scorpio soldier impales a soldier's head with a rope with a blade. (forgot the word)

[B-Wing]

Mortal Combat Deadly Strategy! . . . Scorpio Swordsmen! Get over Here!

You'll have health packs strewn around the battlefield to replenish your hitpoints.

And quad-damage powerups

You guys are great.

[Tellos Athenaios]

About the spike part: anyone remembering a, well sort of, spikes the CIA handed to their Cuban friends to litter the roads with and effectively end all forms of transport by road? I mean those are nearly the same as the spikes the Medieval Archers used (the CIA ones were to be assembled from 2 pieces) and they do hurt infantry. Not all infantry carries all steel suits!

But still: such a pity the infantry guys seemed to have charged recklessly towards archers...

[Myrddraal]

this is the same magazine that didn't actually review Rome Total War, they just presented a glorified press release with a 90%+ score at the end and made no real mention of problems with the game. They even said RTW had 'AI so great Hannibal could be in charge'. Which Hannibal are they talking about exactly? Some drunken unwashed tramp co-incidently called Hannibal who hasn't seen a bath in his life time, let alone a battlefield? PC Zone seem much like all the other games publications these days: full of over the top enthusiasm for games and developers they're in bed with.

Agreed, this review doesn't have a clue...

[screwtype]

About the spike part: anyone remembering a, well sort of, spikes the CIA handed to their Cuban friends to litter the roads with and effectively end all forms of transport by road? I mean those are nearly the same as the spikes the Medieval Archers used (the CIA ones were to be assembled from 2 pieces) and they do hurt infantry. Not all infantry carries all steel suits!

But still: such a pity the infantry guys seemed to have charged recklessly towards archers...

I have no idea what the CIA did in Cuba, but it's hardly relevant to what English archers did 700 years ago.

The longbowmen would make one wooden spike each which they would plant in the ground in front of their position. More than enough to deter a cavalry attack, but hardly an effective defence against infantry. The most such a wall of spikes would be likely to do was impede the movement of infantry as it tried to make its way through them.

[manbaps]

When I read that I interpreted it in three different ways at the same time.
1 - I thought instantaneously to the wooden stake scene in Braveheart, where the infantry waited until the very last second to drop down and lift the stakes into the air, effectively implailing the entire english cavalry charge and destroying the greatest asset they had on the field that day. I could see the archers waiting until the last second to impale some charging infantry with hidden stakes like that, then charging or firing on the demoralized and scared crapless infantry that just suddenly got a mouthful of spears that hadn't previously existed only a second or so ago.
2 - I thought of the possibility of a really dense hedge of large spikes pre-placed into the ground. The infantry try to move too quickly through the hedge and their comrades in the rear accidentally push the front ranks into spikes as they try to shove their way through.
3 - The infantry try to quickly move through the spikes and the archers unload on them as they do, the kebab part coming from infantry being impaled while wading through the spikes by arrows or infantry who see this happening trying to route and falling over the obstacles, impaling themselves on them in the process.


I would love for nothing more than to hope that the infantry didn't just blatantly charge a wall of spikes it could clearly see.

I can just see these spikes making suicidal generals even more suicidal. Ais thinking: "Theres some spikes... need to through... lets try using my most powerful unit! Its bound to work! The fact i could flank it is irrelevant front on charges all the way!"

[The Spartan (Returns)]

if CA can put spikes again. thay should also use flamable pitch. (to burn people)

[r johnson]

[/QUOTE]In Medieval II, the AI will not only remember previous dealings you've had with it but your dealings with other factions, too. It'll then base its stance towards you on all of those factors."[/QUOTE]

Well it seems more realistic as a whole

[4th Dimension]

In Medieval II, the AI will not only remember previous dealings you've had with it but your dealings with other factions, too. It'll then base its stance towards you on all of those factors."

Well something similar featured in RTW. When you broke an alliance by attacking your ally, after that you realy had a hard time allying with anyone.
So it's not realy entirely new function.

[IrishArmenian]

Let's try not to consult the movie "BraveHeart" for military history and tactics. It is just not the wisest thing to do.

[Lucjan]

Let's try not to consult the movie "BraveHeart" for military history and tactics. It is just not the wisest thing to do.

Any allusion to justify CA's use of the spikes against infantry would please me so long as it meant the infantry didn't just blindly walk into spikes it could clearly see.

So let's not arrogantly insult people for no reason. It is just not the nicest thing to do... Especially when I've done nothing to wrong you.

[IrishArmenian]

Any allusion to justify CA's use of the spikes against infantry would please me so long as it meant the infantry didn't just blindly walk into spikes it could clearly see.

So let's not arrogantly insult people for no reason. It is just not the nicest thing to do... Especially when I've done nothing to wrong you.

I mean no offense to you. I mean that Holly Wood is not very accurate.

[Lucjan]

I'm well aware of this, but with grass as high as it is in fallow fields, where it looks like much of the fighting in the screenshots takes place, it is a feasible concept.

[Vlad Tzepes]

"What's more, once your medieval empire becomes overwhelmingly powerful, you'll quickly find your rivals rallying together to oppose your expanding kingdom, a feature which the team hopes will make the game challenging from beginning to end."

I'm worried. I've seen it before - hopeless ennemies refusing any peace deal. It was dull.

"We're making the campaign map AI far more proactive than before. You'll find that your homeland will be attacked a lot more. Your enemies may stick a large army on a fleet and come and attack you at your main city."

I'm happy. Hope they won't invade with all-peasant cannon-fodder armies, though.

"What strikes me most though isn't the French tactical naivety, but the breathtaking level of detail that these battles contain."

Now I'm really worried. This guy compares AI with graphics, first of all. Secondly - if even him, most probably not a TW fan, notices a "naive" AI, then what should I expect?

[SpencerH]

As an obstacle, a spike wall would slow an inf advance but it wouldnt stop it. Nor would one expect to have too many men stupid enough to impale themselves on the pointy ends instead of clearing the obstacle. I wonder if CA have included the capability of inf to clear battlefield obstacles in MTW2?