Israel attack Liban

[Crazed Rabbit]

Today Israel attacked Liban. They explain that they have to defend their country and they were attacked earlier.
In 1939 Germans were telling something really similar. And of course small, poor liban is great danger for Israel, so time on my comment;

SIEG SHALOM ISRAEL

You learnt much from III Reich.

To moderator, admin, et cetera....
Everyone can speak his mind.

How about you get a clue?

Lebanese sheltered terrorists kidnapped two Israeli soldiers and attacked IDF near Northern Israel. That's called an act of war.

Regardless the Arab nations are willing to negotiate these days and the use of military invasion or shelling is unwarrented, because it doesn't work and it causes too much collateral damage. You want to stop something like this? You get down and dirty with Black Ops.

There's a good reason for not negotiating with terrorists- you'd just encourage more kidnappings.

The head of my departement at my University is proffesionally boycotting Isreal and anyone that does not dissacociate themselves with the regime.

What makes me think he does not do the same for Palestine?

If any other country was doing this there would be outrage and cries of "sanctions."

On Lebanon, you mean?

Surprisingly, I mostly agree with Red Peasant.

Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza- which the Palestinians converted into a rocket pad very quickly. What makes people think the Palestinians will act any differently with other concessions?

Crazed Rabbit

[Ice]

Very few countries would engage in rescue operations with armor columns and thousands of soldiers. Both you, me, and everyone on these fora knows that the Mossad could solve this in under an hour, without any Israeli casualties (and only a few terrorist ones, but those people are guilty).

This sort of heavy-handed approach is not befitting a democratic country. I do not say that they should have shut up and negotiated ... but launching a full-scale invasion over two soldiers is idiotic.

*Sigh* If it weren't for the US, Israel would be at least a bit more courteous. How do you expect the Arabic countries to react when your first move is to bash them, then, if that doesn't work, call in the world's only superpower to come to it's aid.

Didn't they already learn that responding to terrorists with tank divisions and army operations is counterproductive? All it does is give more men and materiel to the terrorists, which the operations are meant to curb.

How would you feel if you pulled out of Gaza and get repaid by constant rocket attacks and a kidnapping/ransom demand of one of your soldiers? You can only poke the stronger man with a stick for so long before he gets pissed off and puts his foot up your ass.

[Strike For The South]

Please Clarify that.

Well we have given Isreal the means and they have used them to repress an entire populace

[Csargo]

Well we have given Isreal the means and they have used them to repress an entire populace

I don't know where you got that from.

[Ice]

Well we have given Isreal the means and they have used them to repress an entire populace

Again... clarify what you mean. Specfic instances?

[Vladimir]

Well we have given Isreal the means and they have used them to repress an entire populace

Wow, not a clue. You will find Palestinian members of the Israeli government, living side by side with Jews in Israel. The only Jew or Israeli you'll find in the Palestinian territories is dead, about to be dead, or armed and very pissed. Perhaps Israel should treat the Palestinians the same way the Jordanians and other Arab countries did, by slaughtering them. Take a look at how Jordan handled that problem in the 50's.

People always love to pick on big bad Israel, after all, that state shouldn't exist anyway right? Did anyone see the elected member of the Palestinian parliament that was proud she had three sons die as suicide bombers and wanted to have more just so that they could kill more Jews *elected!*? Those people remind me of the Ku Ku Klanners in the US. What we're fighting is a culture of death and they are the true repressors, just look at how they treat their own. Besides, can anyone here support an organization that is backed by the hard line government in Iran? The line about the boycotting professor is priceless too.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well we have given Isreal the means and they have used them to repress an entire populace

Ice et. al: From reading earlier threads, it should be noted that the above is an EXACT summary of the position many Palestinians take on the issue, and one that is taught in their schools. Most of us view the USA as having assisted in the economic development of Israel and in providing for its defense (my view, btw), but to many Palestinians the very existence of Israel was an act of oppression rammed through the UN by the USA and the continued existence of the camps and Israel's disregard for Palestinian sovereignty an ongoing effort to oppress them.

Unlike at least one previous poster, I do not agree that the creation of Israel was a crime against morality – but it is apparent that possible long-term consequences were not fully considered. It would be hard to find another U.N. decision that has resulted in more bloodshed and turmoil, despite its noble intentions at the outset.

What to do now?

Israel IS in existence, has built a nation and culture of its own, and seems capable of defending itself. Most nations, if attacked, would choose some form of retaliation. Both the Palestinians and the Israelis view themselves as having been attacked and seek to retaliate.

There is one fundamental difference. Many of Israel’s opponents make no distinction whatsoever between civilian and non-civilian targets, with many purposefully selecting the “softer” civilian targets to minimize risk and/or maximize casualties. Israel, for all that it seems too cavalier about “collateral damage” (and I believe they have been at times), does not seek to target un-involved civilians.

Hezbollah’s latest attack was, at least, aiming for a military target – but the attacks from Gaza have been far more indiscriminate.

Louis suggests that a more “proportional” response is appropriate -- I disagree. I do not advocate nor would I condone the targeting of civilians – we concur fully in that, but I believe that the attack should provoke a broader and more damaging response, aiming to destroy the extra-national actor if possible, or to severely degrade their abilities if not. A proportional response would only beget more attacks. The better strategy is to build intelligence data and then strike to maximize damage.

Should the counter be with columns of troops? With surgical air-attacks? With covert assassinations/abductions? No one tactic should be relied upon entirely. A combination of all/several approaches is probably the most likely.

I disagree with those who always decry the use of the military because its use creates bad feelings. Their rationale is always "if you use the military, people will feel oppressed/be harmed thereby and the bad guys will have greater support and recruiting." Extending that logic, the best alternative is to disband the military. Can't use them, so they're just a waste of shekels. Too many folks have impression that the guerilla/terrorist will always win -- that it is impossible to counter low-intensity conflict -- but the number of guerilla/terrorist campaigns that win without first changing into a main-stream military effort is relatively few.

Sorry, I'll try to shut up sooner next time.

[Ice]

I agree 100% with the above.

[Divinus Arma]

Go Israel.

I second that motion and move for ratification in the Great Book of Conservatism.

All those who disagree, strap on a boomski device in support of your beloved Hamas. Go find a bus filled with women and children in Tel Aviv.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That was a joke.

Go Israel.

[kataphraktoi]

WHat's wrong with the existence of Israel? Its a created state like all the other Arab states - based on conquest in the first place. We know that before the Arab conquest, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq and Libya were not Arabic, and now they are Arabic through conquest. But we accept it do we not? Likewise, Israel is a product of conquest. Where once was an Arabic population is now an Arabic minority. I really do feel sorry for the Palestinians, but its their "Arab" brothers who have screwed them for refusing to negotiate a peace feal early after the 1948 war of independence or Al-Nakhba according to the Arabs. They kept them in squalor and used them as "propaganda" fodder to gain sympathy from the international community.

Heck, most of the states of the world was created through warfare and the displacement of other people. Lets just be a bit more wary before we call other people's country a mistake when our on country has done the thing ok?

No one is going suggest that America is mistake are they? (unless u really really hate Bush:P)

No is going to suggest that Britain is a mistake are they? (they made CA in the first place :D)

No is going to suggest China is a mistake are they? (Thank goodness for b-grade kung fu movies, chinese takeaway, and cheap goods ;)

[Justiciar]

No is going to suggest that Britain is a mistake are they?

If by Britain you mean the UK.. I might, if I weren't so bloody tired.

[PanzerJaeger]

This is just common sense.

If any nation is attacked constantly with rockets and has its soldiers killed and kidnapped, its government has an obligation to its populace to end the attacks.

People lets wake up. If Isreal wasnt Isreal theyd be royally shunned and be on the same plane as North Korea. If it wasnt for my countries blind support theyd already be there. I support a sperate Palistinan nation and all that good stuff. I also belive there is a HUGE jewish lobby in the USA however the reason we support the Isrealis is becuase they are thorns in the side of the arabs. The bottom line is this Isreal is a horrible country which uses America to forwared its intrests (not to mention steal our damned tech) I hope America stays out of this and Isreal has to fight on its own.

Go Israel.

[Ironside]

Let see now, we got a faction with considerble political influence that has justified thier existance by claiming the destruction of thier enemy. Since the conflict has almost stopped, they have constantly lost power and the calls for disarment has been growing stronger.

And then out of the blue, they "accidently" provoked a massive response from thier official enemy...

I can only hope that Israel plays this on the method of making the attack from Hizbollah looking very useless and damaging to Lebanon, while not villify themself too much in the process.
If Israel decides to re-occupy parts of Lebanon or has a large collateral damage record, I'm going to call them fools that prefer this situation compared to peace.

What would be an appropriate response to a specific attack on the Israeli military resulting in 7 dead and 2 captured and held hostage?

An attack that results in 7 dead and 2 captured Hizbollah members. Sure, if you could kill 70 Hizbollah members then it's fine, but not if the civilian casulities starts to reak up.
The one of mine = 100 of yours anti-partisan tactics doesn't work to well, if you simply starts killing more or less random people as they're "collaborators", more of the opposite.

[Keba]

How would you feel if you pulled out of Gaza and get repaid by constant rocket attacks and a kidnapping/ransom demand of one of your soldiers? You can only poke the stronger man with a stick for so long before he gets pissed off and puts his foot up your ass.

Actually, I was referring to the situation with the incursion into Lebanon ... I'm keeping neutral on the Gaza situations ... I find Israel's tactics too heavy handed for my taste, but I dislike more the tactics employed by the terrorists. Although, I'm going to point out, that these tactics only make the terrorists stronger, and the situation later on will be that Israel will face a much more powerful enemy.

A normal country would usually employ a somewhat different tactic when someone fires missiles over the border ... send the country's goverment an ultimatum to get rid of the terrorists, or the army will move in to handle the situation.

I'm not saying it's America's or the US' fault ... it's the British, they just began moving Jews into Palestine ignoring everything that the locals said, then, when the locals objected, strong-arming them into submission. After Israel was formed, things stayed the same. No wonder the place is so messed up.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

No one is going suggest that America is mistake are they? (unless u really really hate Bush:P)

Actually, I think Freud said America was a "giant mistake" but I forget the context.

Fe-side:

I agree with you about avoiding civilian casualties -- and acknowledge that Israel has created more than necessary of same -- but a 7&2 for 7&2 program only perpetuates the "Hatfields v McCoys" thing that they already have going on and has zero chance of effecting a solution -- hence my alternative proposal.

[x-dANGEr]

Since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip nine months ago, more than 300 rockets, mostly Qassams, have been fired at adjacent Jewish neighborhoods. More than 10 rockets were fired last week alone.

Read the word: Nine.

I'm sure the US would react rather more harshly if, say, Canada or Mexico were lobbing missiles over the border on a regular basis, attacking their military and kidnapping their troops. The Yanks here would be demanding that those countries be turned to glass no doubt.

A very flawed comparision. As far as I know, USA hasn't attacked Canada/Mexico, and hasn't been killing chunks of their people for the last 4 decades. And also, USA isn't in anyway captivating a lot of Canadians/Mexicans from their own lands (Like, it hasn't went into Canada, took 10 people and throw them in its prisons).

I don't know what the Israeli premier did wrong, he came into office on a ticket of making more concessions to the Palestinians and before he can do anything every terrorist in the mid-East is taking pot-shots. They smell weakness and they're obviously in no mood for negotiations.

Captives, captives and captives..

We must recognize the situation as it stands now, affirm Israel's right to exist as well as the right of a free Palestinian state. The Israeilis have been unable to attain coopeation from the Palestinian Authority despite pulling out of Gaza, dismantling settlements, and taking diplomatic steps towards a two-state solution. The election of Hamas represents the will of the Palestinian people to engage Israel with violence in order to meet its objectives.

Pulling out of Gaza: You mean pulling out of a city with no buildings not raised?
Dismantling settlements: In places where it'd cost more to keep than leave?

Furthermore, if Israel acquiesces to the hostage takers, it will only encourage more hostage taking. And how is Israel to respond to rocket shelling from the Palestinian territories? Better question: How is Israel to respond to to rocket shelling fired from behgind civilian areas in Palestian territories?

I guess giving them what they want would be the best option. If all captives (That are captived with no right at all, or if you want to discard all that crap: WAR) are freed, there will be no motive for Lebanese or Palestinieans to wage war. And if there would be some extremist groups, they wouldn't receive any support.

and maybe the title of this thread should be hizbullah attack kidnap 2 israeli soldiers kill 8 more and then israel reitaliates which country would just let there captured soldiers not be rescued?

You said it: Soldiers. Not civilians, and I think that covers it.

Didn't they already learn that responding to terrorists with tank divisions and army operations is counterproductive? All it does is give more men and materiel to the terrorists, which the operations are meant to curb.

Last time I discussed the term "Terrorists" in the ORG, I got answered that it refers to those who terrorize and kill civilians. Now, just as I said before: How can you rank Hesbullah as a "terrorist" when he does neither of both?

There's a good reason for not negotiating with terrorists- you'd just encourage more kidnappings.

Those kidnappings are justified, as they are for enemy soldiers, and the enemy have a LOT more already "kidnapped".

Go Israel.

I second that motion and move for ratification in the Great Book of Conservatism.

I think if you are so biased, you shouldn't even try to argue.

[Reenk Roink]

Let's just see how badly Israel shoots itself in the foot with it's terrorism from above... oops... I mean heavy yet "justifiable collateral damage".

[Redleg]

Read the word: Nine.

Yes indeed x-danger read the word nine. Since Israel's withdraw from the Gaza Strip 300 missiles have been fired into Israel. In other words for the last nine monthes violence has been occuring by both sides. The Palenstine Terrorist groups such as Hezbelloh and Hamas do not want peace with Israel only its destruction.

Now Israel is just as flawed with a recent artillery strike on a beach and now attacking into another nation going after a terrorist group.

Both sides are equally at fault in the violence. Remember it takes two to have a fight.

A very flawed comparision. As far as I know, USA hasn't attacked Canada/Mexico, and hasn't been killing chunks of their people for the last 4 decades. And also, USA isn't in anyway captivating a lot of Canadians/Mexicans from their own lands (Like, it hasn't went into Canada, took 10 people and throw them in its prisons).

THe United States does extradiction all the time with both Canada and Mexico. The United States even has some bounty hunters that go into Mexico and take fugitives from justice.

The flaw is that Hezbelloh has been attacking Israel from the border areas and believes that Lebanon is a safe haven for them. Well Israel is guilty of an act of war against Lebanon because it sent its army across the border. But then the United States has done that with Mexico (a historical point) when we sent troops south into Mexico in an attempt to capture Pancho Villa. Lebanon might want to review its policies about Hezbelloh if it does not want another nation to remove a criminal element that strikes across into their border. It does not make what Israel is doing right - but it does make it understandable. When the police of the nation refuse to address the criminal element eventual someone else will.

Captives, captives and captives..

Palenstine prisoners captured by Israel for doing criminal acts are not capitives. People taken without criminal charges are indeed captives. So are you attempting to claim that the Palenstine freedom fighers (ie I call them terrorists) taking Israel soldiers captive by kidnapping is a justifable act?

Pulling out of Gaza: You mean pulling out of a city with no buildings not raised?
Dismantling settlements: In places where it'd cost more to keep than leave?

The Palenstine authority got exactly what it asked for - the land. The buildings were built by Israel were they not?

I guess giving them what they want would be the best option. If all captives (That are captived with no right at all, or if you want to discard all that crap: WAR) are freed, there will be no motive for Lebanese or Palestinieans to wage war. And if there would be some extremist groups, they wouldn't receive any support.

Captives are not the motivation for the violence done by Palenstine Terror organizations.

You said it: Soldiers. Not civilians, and I think that covers it.

Kidnapping soldiers is an act of war - guess what Israel responded with?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

answer: an act of war

Last time I discussed the term "Terrorists" in the ORG, I got answered that it refers to those who terrorize and kill civilians. Now, just as I said before: How can you rank Hesbullah as a "terrorist" when he does neither of both?

Hezbullah attacks with missles into civilian areas. Hezbullah supplies weapons to Palenstine terrorists. Etc etc etc.

Those kidnappings are justified, as they are for enemy soldiers, and the enemy have a LOT more already "kidnapped".

Then you must agree that a military response by Israel is also justfied since enemy soldiers (terrorists) attacked an Israeli outpost to kidnap those same soldiers. An act of war.

I think if you are so biased, you shouldn't even try to argue.

If the shoe fits - maybe you should also wear it.

[Kommodus]

Ok, I normally support Isreal, but the current turn of events seems bewildering. There are a host of problems with Isreal launching large-scale invasions of Gaza and especially Lebanon. This escalation of the conflict far exceeds Isreal's normal response to attacks, and is a huge setback to whatever remnants of the peace process remained.

I understand Isreal's desire to retrieve its kidnapped soldiers. But these invasions are throwing the fledgling Palestinian state and Lebanon into chaos, and I fear the terrorist factions will capitalize. Progress made toward establishing a viable, stable Palestinian state is being destroyed - it will take years to rebuild the damaged infrastructure. Will it always be this way - one step forward and three steps back?

I don't really know how Isreal should respond, and I don't want to argue about it - I'm just sick of this entire headache.

[x-dANGEr]

Redleg, through that post, I get it that you are a 10 years old kid who just knew what Palestine is? Nothing personal mate, but half of what you posted is wrong & manipulating. (Hmm.. Since it is manipulating, maybe older)

Yes indeed x-danger read the word nine. Since Israel's withdraw from the Gaza Strip 300 missiles have been fired into Israel. In other words for the last nine monthes violence has been occuring by both sides.

Don't just hijack an arguement and start arguing things not there.. I said no way Hamas/Kassam would lunch 100 missiles a month (Which was posted by some member), so you are simply prooving my point, thank you. (This prooves that you're just arguing for the heck of it.. Stick to a point and back it up)

The Palenstine Terrorist groups such as Hezbelloh and Hamas do not want peace with Israel only its destruction.

Hesbullah isn't Palestinian, which leads us to reason number 2 of believing you know nothing.. Hmm also, you mean that "The Palestinian Terrorist groups as Husbullah and Hamas do not want peace with the terrorist group Israel, only its destruction", don't you? Since you say:

Both sides are equally at fault in the violence. Remember it takes two to have a fight.

And:

Lebanon might want to review its policies about Hezbelloh if it does not want another nation to remove a criminal element that strikes across into their border. It does not make what Israel is doing right - but it does make it understandable. When the police of the nation refuse to address the criminal element eventual someone else will.

Already said it.. Hesubullah attacked Israeli soldiers, if Israel is to attack Hesbullah soldiers, then it'd be protecting it self, not by killing everyone in front.

Palenstine prisoners captured by Israel for doing criminal acts are not capitives. People taken without criminal charges are indeed captives. So are you attempting to claim that the Palenstine freedom fighers (ie I call them terrorists) taking Israel soldiers captive by kidnapping is a justifable act?

You now 100% proove you're a rookie to the whole matter (Reason number 3): What is the percent of the prisoners held by Israel are held there for "justice" do you think? I can tell you, it exceeds not 10%, and I'm not talking about the Palestinian ones only, a lot of Lebanese from the south were captived after those masscarces.. And yes, I'm saying that if Israel is keeping all these 'captives' with no hope of freeing them, something must be done to free them.

The Palenstine authority got exactly what it asked for - the land. The buildings were built by Israel were they not?

Not.

Captives are not the motivation for the violence done by Palenstine Terror organizations.

Oh, I forgot you're the head of Hamas.. Evidence? Because in each ex speech, the goal was clearly stated "captives". Btw: The topic is about Hesbullah, Lebanon and Israel BTW.. I guess you have something against Palestine, and Palestinians as a whole since you keep getting them between your nails, with un-evident cruel words.

Kidnapping soldiers is an act of war - guess what Israel responded with?

Let's say it this way: Israel holding captives is an act of war, guess what Hesbullah responded with?

Hezbullah attacks with missles into civilian areas. Hezbullah supplies weapons to Palenstine terrorists. Etc etc etc.

Reason N.4 making me believe you're a rookie to whole this.. :

Hesbullah never started an attack on civilian areas.. This incident is another proof: He carried an attack on some soldiers, Israel responded with attacks into civilian areas, and so Hesbullah's attacks developed and kept up with that level.

Then you must agree that a military response by Israel is also justfied since enemy soldiers (terrorists) attacked an Israeli outpost to kidnap those same soldiers. An act of war.

Yea I do, but not on CIVILIANS!

If the shoe fits - maybe you should also wear it.

I actually look at you when I read this..

Oh.. One last note: Since both Israelis, Palestinians and Hesbullah are in the same fault, why do you keep calling the last two terrorists and the first not?

[Redleg]

Redleg, through that post, I get it that you are a 10 years old kid who just knew what Palestine is? Nothing personal mate, but half of what you posted is wrong & manipulating. (Hmm.. Since it is manipulating, maybe older)

Your wrong on so many accounts it is rather amusing to read.

Don't just hijack an arguement and start arguing things not there.. I said no way Hamas/Kassam would lunch 100 missiles a month (Which was posted by some member), so you are simply prooving my point, thank you. (This prooves that you're just arguing for the heck of it.. Stick to a point and back it up)

The point again you missed - 300 missiles have been fired in the last 9 monthes. VIolence is indeed being done by the Palenstine terror groups. Hezbollah and Hamas.

Hezbollah is supporting the Palenstine terror organization Hamas with its current operations. Israel was not in Lebanon prior to the kidnapping now was it?

Maybe you should also learn to read english a little better. I proved both of you were incorrect. Nine monthes of violence with 300 missiles being launched. This equates to 30 missiles a month - which means the production rate of missiles is greater then you alledged but less then what the other individual stated.

Hesbullah isn't Palestinian, which leads us to reason number 2 of believing you know nothing.. Hmm also, you mean that "The Palestinian Terrorist groups as Husbullah and Hamas do not want peace with the terrorist group Israel, only its destruction", don't you? Since you say:

Try reading again did I claim Hezbollah is a Palenstine terrorist group or did I stated Palenstine Terrorist groups. Next time for the poor english skills you demonstrated from your failure to read (and my lazy typing) - I will clearly label Hamas as a Palenstine Terror group and Hezbollah as an Islamic Arab Terror Groupd with Links to a terrorist state sponsor Iran. Guess where Hezbollah is attempting to send the two Israeli soldiers they kidnapped?

I happen to know who and what Hezbollah is - founded with the help of Iran during the Lebanon civil war of period (1980). Are you attempting to deny that the Islamic Arab group that is a political party and a terror organization known as Hezbollah is not supporting Hamas in its avowed destruction of Israel?

And:
Already said it.. Hesubullah attacked Israeli soldiers, if Israel is to attack Hesbullah soldiers, then it'd be protecting it self, not by killing everyone in front.

Then you must understand that an act of war often necessates another act of war. Hezbollah had no justification to kidnap Israeli soldiers that were on the Israeli side of the border. You might want to think before you go defending a terrorist act or an aggressive act of war committed by Hezbollah.
(depending on how you view Hezbollah)

You now 100% proove you're a rookie to the whole matter (Reason number 3): What is the percent of the prisoners held by Israel are held there for "justice" do you think? I can tell you, it exceeds not 10%, and I'm not talking about the Palestinian ones only, a lot of Lebanese from the south were captived after those masscarces.. And yes, I'm saying that if Israel is keeping all these 'captives' with no hope of freeing them, something must be done to free them.

Try again.

Here I will help you understand the simple english that you failed to read.. Are you blindly baised in your support of terror organizations that you failed to catch the actual meaning of the statement?

Palenstine prisoners captured by Israel for doing criminal acts are not capitives.

This part you got correct. Indeed some prisoners are indeed criminals caught in the act and have been charged of a crime.

People taken without criminal charges are indeed captives.

Oh look you failed to catch this part of the paragraph - You might want to check out your own failures to read because of your own baised views before accusing others of ignorance.


So are you attempting to claim that the Palenstine freedom fighers (ie I call them terrorists) taking Israel soldiers captive by kidnapping is a justifable act?

Now that is simply a question, are you supporting the use of terror to attempt to free those captives? What has the average Israeli citizen done to deserve such an attack by Hamas or yes even Hezbollah who does indeed launch missiles into Israel from the border?

Not.

Your proof?

Oh, I forgot you're the head of Hamas..

I forgot your a blind supporter of Hamas and its terror tactics (I to can play this game. Must be your age and your own ignorance of the issues that causes you to miss critical parts of the statement. Care to play some more?)

Evidence? Because in each ex speech, the goal was clearly stated "captives". Btw: The topic is about Hesbullah, Lebanon and Israel BTW.. I guess you have something against Palestine, and Palestinians as a whole since you keep getting them between your nails, with un-evident cruel words.

Hezbollah is supporting Hamas - you might want to check out the number of weapons being smuggled to Hamas by Hezbollah. That and the missile technology..... Hezbollah has been linked to several terrorist attacks with Palenstine groups against Israel from Wikipedia

Hezbollah activities in the al-Aqsa Intifada
Main article: al-Aqsa Intifada

Recruits being sworn in - Beirut, November 11, 2001In December 2001 three Hezbollah operatives were caught in Jordan while attempting to bring in BM-13 Katyusha rockets into the West Bank. Syed Hassan Nasrallah secretary general of Hezbollah, responded that "It is every freedom loving peoples right and duty against occupation to send arms to Palestinians from any possible place."[29]

During 2002, 2003 and 2004, the Israeli Security Forces thwarted numerous suicide bombing attacks, some of which Israel claims were planned and funded by Hezbollah and were to have been carried out by Tanzim (Fatah's armed wing) activists. Israeli officials accused Hezbollah of aiding Palestinian terrorism and participating in weapon smuggling (see also: Santorini, Karin A).

On June 16, 2004, two Palestinian girls — aged 14 and 15 — were arrested by the Israeli Defense Forces for plotting a suicide bombing. [30] According to an IDF statement, the two minors were recruited by Tanzim activists. [31] On June 23, 2004, another allegedly Hezbollah-funded suicide bombing attack was foiled by the Israeli security forces. [32].

In February 2005 the Palestinian Authority accused Hezbollah of attempting to derail the truce signed with Israel. Palestinian officials and former militants described how Hezbollah promised an increase in funding for any occupation resistance group able to carry out an attack on Israeli military targets [33]. Since the May 2000 Israeli withdrawal, Hezbollah has continued fighting the IDF around the disputed 10 km²-Shebaa Farms area on the Lebanese-Syrian border. Although the UN regards Shebaa Farms — 14 farms on the western slope of Mount Hermon, near the village of Shebaa — as Syrian territory, The Lebanese government and Hezbollah considers the area a part of Lebanon. The Shebaa farms were taken by Israel from Syria during the 1967 war. Syria was asked to notify the UN that it considered the Shebaa farms to be part of Lebanon, but no official statement was ever sent. Some argue that Hezbollah is being used by Syria and Iran as a proxy against Israel. [34]

I don't support neither Israel or the Palenstine terror groups. I find both at fault. The terror groups I find slightly more at fault because the cowards attack civilians and use kids to carryout the attacks. I wonder if you support the using of teenage children to carry out sucide bombings? (again do you care to play this type of game?)

Let's say it this way: Israel holding captives is an act of war, guess what Hesbullah responded with?

Are you attempting to state Israel has not honored the peace that was negotated back in 1995 and completed in 2000 with Hezbollah?

After years of cross-border attacks from Lebanon into Israel, by Palestinian militants, Israel invaded southern Lebanon in 1982. The stated goal of the operation was an attempt to evict the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and other militant groups, but Israel remained in southern Lebanon for the next 18 years. After UN resolution 1995, Israel withdrew in the spring of 2000, under the Prime Minister Ehud Barak, a former Chief of Staff who had actually in that position personally ruled over the security zone. The UN confirmed that Israel complied with all the requirements in SC resolution 1995. Since this time, the militant group Hezbollah set up bases of operation in the area in contradiction to the UN SC resolution 1995 which required the Lebanese government to dismantle any armed militias operating in the area. Hezbollah and the Lebanese government cited the constant violation of Lebanese air space by Israeli planes, and the occupation of Shebaa Farms, a territory which they consider Lebanese, but which is not considered as such according to international law.

I would state that both sides are violating the agreement.

Are you also attempting to claim the missile attacks into civilian areas that were used as a diversion to kidnap the soldiers is also justified?

Reason N.4 making me believe you're a rookie to whole this.. :

Hesbullah never started an attack on civilian areas.. This incident is another proof: He carried an attack on some soldiers, Israel responded with attacks into civilian areas, and so Hesbullah's attacks developed and kept up with that level.

Care to explain this particlur quote from several news articles - you can also find it at Wikipedia to make it simple for you.

Besides the initial raid, Hezbollah guerrillas targeted several Israeli towns with Katyusha rockets. There were numerous civilian casualties including a 40 year old woman who was killed in Nahariya and a 70 year old woman was killed in Safed. Hezbollah has threatened to hit Haifa. [24]

Careful now - Hezbollah is not the organization that you believe it to be. It is a terror organization that uses strikes against civilians also. It seems Hezbollah own actions belie your claim here.

Yea I do, but not on CIVILIANS!

See above

I actually look at you when I read this..

You might want to look in the mirror.

Oh.. One last note: Since both Israelis, Palestinians and Hesbullah are in the same fault, why do you keep calling the last two terrorists and the first not?

Israel I find at fault many times - you might want to go back and read earlier threads about this issue. It seems though you confuse my critizism of Hamas and Hezbollah as blind support of Israel. It would serve you better to actually read what is written versus assume things not in evidence.

This reminds me of a previous discussion on Israel and Palenstine.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You know the one where you attempted the same type of arguement and then left when your points were over and over again disproved and shown to be false with facts? Don't attempt such an arguement when the facts demonstrate that both sides are continually at fault and both violate the peace over and over again. If its not an Palenstine Terrorist extremist violating the peace - its a Jewish Israeli extremists that commits a terror act to jump start the violence again. I find your blind support of the Palenstine cause amusing when you negate yourself to emotional appeal and attempting to claim others are ignorant when all one has to look into the actual facts to show how baised your presentation is. Calling me a rookie and ignorant of the facts is rather amusing when it only takes a few minutes of research on the web to find nuetral articles that prove your information completely inaccurate or false. Now careful x-danger you have shown your rear-end so far in this thread - I don't think you want to continue with such a course of action now do you? Because I can easily oblige you with a tit for tat discussion.

[Dâriûsh]

I'll wager ten camels that Hizbullah will invoke the Sabra and Shatila card. Any takers?

[Redleg]

I'll wager ten camels that Hizbullah will invoke the Sabra and Shatila card. Any takers?

Well that arguement has been implied alreadly in this thread by someone....

It won't surprise me to see Hezbollah actually state that in the very near future. Probably as they attempt to send the two Israeli captives outside of Lebanon. But what the hell, the talks in Eygpt might pan out and prove us both wrong.

[x-dANGEr]

Maybe you should also learn to read english a little better. I proved both of you were incorrect. Nine monthes of violence with 300 missiles being launched. This equates to 30 missiles a month - which means the production rate of missiles is greater then you alledged but less then what the other individual stated.

Just a little note.. Not everything in the whole world revolves around you, I wasn't addressing you when I quoted your pessage..

Try reading again did I claim Hezbollah is a Palenstine terrorist group or did I stated Palenstine Terrorist groups. Next time for the poor english skills you demonstrated from your failure to read (and my lazy typing) - I will clearly label Hamas as a Palenstine Terror group and Hezbollah as an Islamic Arab Terror Groupd with Links to a terrorist state sponsor Iran. Guess where Hezbollah is attempting to send the two Israeli soldiers they kidnapped?

You actually claimed that Hesbullah is a Palestinian terrorist group, or that is what would a sane person get from this:

The Palenstine Terrorist groups such as Hezbelloh and Hamas do not want peace with Israel only its destruction.

Then you must understand that an act of war often necessates another act of war. Hezbollah had no justification to kidnap Israeli soldiers that were on the Israeli side of the border. You might want to think before you go defending a terrorist act or an aggressive act of war committed by Hezbollah.
(depending on how you view Hezbollah)

Then, Israel has no justification to keep the captives captived.

Are you attempting to state Israel has not honored the peace that was negotated back in 1995 and completed in 2000 with Hezbollah?

Well, I do think that 'conditions' of that peace was to set free the prisoners, and that hasn't been done, even once in the whole Israeli history without a trade.

Are you also attempting to claim the missile attacks into civilian areas that were used as a diversion to kidnap the soldiers is also justified?

I have no info of such attacks.

Care to explain this particlur quote from several news articles - you can also find it at Wikipedia to make it simple for you.

I'm not going to start exhanging childish comments with you, such as "look in the mirror" bla bla bla..

I stopped the arguement last time, because I'd ask you what's the color of that dog, you'd say it's a cat.


That quote in no way implies that all that happened at once. Yes, he did attack cities, but only after Israel started their millitary actions. And to try and simplify things for you: If you were a Lebanese, you want the captives back, Israel offers a stance of 'no way' to you, what would you do to free them? You asked the help of the community, but you keep getting forgotten through the numerous tragedies in the world, what would you do again?

Israel I find at fault many times - you might want to go back and read earlier threads about this issue. It seems though you confuse my critizism of Hamas and Hezbollah as blind support of Israel. It would serve you better to actually read what is written versus assume things not in evidence.

AGAIN! I ask you a question, you forget about it, and say that I say things I haven't actually said. My question was clearly stated:

Since both Israelis, Palestinians and Hesbullah are in the same fault, why do you keep calling the last two terrorists and the first not?

If you look at your post, you'd see that you always made sure to mention "terrorist" concerning Hesbullah and Hamas, but forgot about it when it comes to Israel, even though you say that you think they are at the same fault.

[yesdachi]

Just because Israel shares “fault” doesn’t mean they are terrorists.

[Dâriûsh]

Just because Israel shares “fault” doesn’t mean they are terrorists.

I bet a lot of the Lebanese civilians killed in Israeli bombardments would disagree if they could.

[Big_John]

I bet a lot of the Lebanese civilians killed in Israeli bombardments would disagree if they could.

i'm sure there are some still living (though sans limbs at this point) that would agree too.

[Dâriûsh]

As for Zionist conspiracy theories, is this whole thing staged to distract attention from President Katsav’s sex scandal? Stay tuned on Al-Manar.

[yesdachi]

Collateral damage from a military attack is not terrorism.

[Dâriûsh]

Collateral damage from a military attack is not terrorism.

Oh? okay.