Christian Prosletytizing in the U.S. Armed Forces?

[Lemur]

Stumbled across this, wondered what the Orgahs would think.

"Let me make it clear. I would shed my last drop of blood to defend their right to hold that biblical worldview. They are absolutely entitled to believe that Anne Frank is burning in hell along with Dr. Seuss, Gandhi and Einstein. But I will not accept my government telling me who are the children of the greater God and who are the children of the lesser God. That's the difference. I will not defend -- I will fight them tooth and nail, and lay down a withering field of fire and leave sucking chest wounds -- if they engage the machinery of the state, which is what they're doing." -- Mikey Weinstein, ex-Officer suing the Air Force over proselytizing in uniform.

Personally, I find it hard not to like a guy who casually uses the term "sucking chest wounds," even though I loathe the use of lawsuits in general.

[Redleg]

I think his issue is more with the Air Force Academy versus the whole of the United States Armed Forces.

It seems that instead of focusing on harrassing women as the Academy used to do back in the 1990's its reverted to bashing Jews.

[lars573]

I sincerely hope he succeds.

[Mount Suribachi]

A curious combination of complaints, some entirely justified, others just come across as the kind common or garden anti-christianism so popular in the backroom.

"How does it make you feel to know that you killed Jesus Christ?"

This is just wrong on so many levels. Morons who come out with this really need to read their new New Testaments. And a lawsuit for that kind of harassment is entirely justified.

"Ambassadors for Christ in uniform " I really don't get the problem with this. America has a LONG tradition of the "christian warrior". The soldier who loves his country and has family and is willing to give his life to defend them, who seeks to represent the values of Christ - honesty, integrity, truthfulness, forgiveness. Think Robert E Lee, or Mel Gibsons character in We Were Soldiers.

It seems he wants to bring back don't ask, don't tell. Only this time its the Christians who shouldn't tell.

[Husar]

"How does it make you feel to know that you killed Jesus Christ?"

This is just wrong on so many levels. Morons who come out with this really need to read their new New Testaments. And a lawsuit for that kind of harassment is entirely justified.

I agree. A common argument of antisemites.

[Fragony]

"He has also formed a nonprofit organization, the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, to combat what he sees as a concerted effort by evangelical Christian organizations to treat the armed forces as a mission field, ripe for conversions."

So why sue the army? Sounds like third party activity to me....

[Vladimir]

That's strange. All the major military installations I'm aware of offer services for at least "The Big Three". Oh wait, [ch}air force, never mind. Where’s DD?

[Devastatin Dave]

That's strange. All the major military installations I'm aware of offer services for at least "The Big Three". Oh wait, [ch}air force, never mind. Where’s DD?

Right here.
Go Air Force!!!
Mikey Weinstein just sounds like your typical whiner who is trying to make some good law suit cash because he couldn't cut it as an officer in the USAF. When I attended church on base years ago, I don't seem to remember the Chaplain preaching about, "Anne Frank is burning in hell along with Dr. Seuss, Gandhi and Einstein.". In fact, most of the time he barely mentioned Jesus Christ because it has become taboo to even talk about him. (Of course its more acceptable these days to talk of other leaders of religion who sacked cities and murdered innocent men women and children and married 9 your old girls, but I degress.) I stopped going to the church on base because it was PC'd to the hilt with regulations. I'd say 99% of the Chaplains in the Air Force do a great job. They bend over backwards to help everyone, no matter what religion they are or if they are atheists. I'm sure the usual suspects here would have you believe that we're brainwashed into believing that we are in a new Crusade and they are preaching to us to send all that dissagree with America to Hell in large numbers, but Chaplains are truelly peace loving good men and women that deserve better than this POS former officer accusing them of being zealots forcing Christian conversions of the weak minded multitude of impressionable young men and women. Nice try though lemur, I'm sending you a copy of "Godless, the church of liberalism" for today's lame attempt on slaming the US military and people of faith. Congrats...

[Kommodus]

I sympathize with Weinstein's son, and I'm saddened by the bigotry he experienced. I'm appalled at the ignorance that leads to anti-Semitism. But I don't agree with Weinstein's lawsuit; he seems to be targetting the wrong enemy. I disagree with any rules that curtail the freedom to share of one's faith in a peaceful, non-coercive way.

Anti-Semitism, or hatred directed towards people of any race, faith, etc., is a great evil. But the best way to combat it is through education, not by selectively banning certain forms of free speech. I can tell my co-workers my opinions on politics, sports, music, or anything else. I can invite them to concerts, sporting events, or private parties. So why should I be denied the right to tell them my views on God, or to invite them to church? They can tell me "no" and even ask me not to speak to them about it again, and I'll respect that.

And by the way, favoritism will happen to some degree whenever there is a majority/minority split. If I (an American) went to, say, a German university, I wouldn't expect to be included in things to the same degree as the German students. I wouldn't consider this deliberate or wrong - I'd simply have less in common with the others. Of course, if the others attacked me or shouted racial slurs, it would be a different story.

[Tribesman]

Mikey Weinstein just sounds like your typical whiner who is trying to make some good law suit cash because he couldn't cut it as an officer in the USAF.
Errrrr....he is wealthy already Dave , he put in 10 years service and walked into a good government job .
So why couldn't you cut it as an enlisted man , you did leave the service didn't you , that must mean you can't cut it surely .

This issue goes back years , it has supposed to have been addresed many times , yet it persists .
So now you have someone who can cut it as an airforce lawyer , can cut it as a government lawyer , can cut it as a civilian lawyer , has the money to bring a suit , and the wherewithall to secure additional financial backing .
Taking what is a proper course of action , because some people and organisations will only act when it hits them where it hurts , in the pocket .
And a lawsuit can have a tendancy to hurt the pocket .

[GoreBag]

Not really surprising. An American is suing other Americans...doesn't really matter what it's about.

[Devastatin Dave]

Mikey Weinstein just sounds like your typical whiner who is trying to make some good law suit cash because he couldn't cut it as an officer in the USAF.
Errrrr....he is wealthy already Dave , he put in 10 years service and walked into a good government job .
So why couldn't you cut it as an enlisted man , you did leave the service didn't you , that must mean you can't cut it surely .

Nope, my family couldn't cut it as an enlisted man and its salary!!!
Now I'm working a cushy govie job.
Look, he can sue all he wants and try to hurt the Chaplaincy all he wants. Its just unfortunate he's going after the real ggod duys in the US Armed Forces. I'm sure most former vets like me on this forum appreciate their chaplains. Hope he had evidence unlike his buddy Joe Wilson (read the entire article, seems like the usual limo libs are in on this of course).

[solypsist]

the real threat is the expanding aryan and white supremacy groups using the military as both a recruiting platform and means to train and smuggle weapons. in baghdad i saw quite a bit of aryan graffitti.

[Redleg]

the real threat is the expanding aryan and white supremacy groups using the military as both a recruiting platform and means to train and smuggle weapons. in baghdad i saw quite a bit of aryan graffitti.

THe problem is not just aryan and white supremacy groups but other gang mentality groups also. Care to guess the amount of training a company level commander used to get to help identify the possibile white supremacy members and the gang members of all types, Latino, Black, Chinese, Asian, White, and yes even the just flat out non-racial based gangs?


The short answer from my experience was not near enough - but what I did learn demonstrated to me that the problem is not just with one particlur sub-group, but many different groups.


I have no problem with former members of these organizations joining the military to escape their destructive former lifestyles and affiliations. But the military does indeed need to crack down on all groups that are using the military as both a recruiting platform and a means to train, smuggle, and gather military grade hardware.

[Tribesman]

Look, he can sue all he wants and try to hurt the Chaplaincy all he wants.
But Dave some of the Chaplaincy is supportative of these measures , it is mainly the evangelical chaplains, (and officers/men who are not Chaplains) that this is about . All previous findings into this matter (and it does go back a long while and not only in the Air-Force) have come down in his directions favour .
One problem they(the chaplaincy and the military) have identified is in the turnover in officers at the acadamy in question , they implement the measures then get a new batch of staff , but neglect to instruct them on the measures .
BTW the counter action taken by the Evangelical chaplain in the Navy was dismissed .