Israel and the movement of things

[Crazed Rabbit]

When two groups are doing something wrong and you condemn both it has nothing to do with being pro or anti one side or the other .

How is defending yourself from attackers wrong?

Crazed Rabbit

[Beirut]

Well, eight of ours got killed in Lebanon today.

Guess we're part of the club now...

[Tribesman]

How is defending yourself from attackers wrong?

Who is defending who ?
So far both attackers have killed civilians in a completely reckless manner . So if both are wrong then which one is right ?
In case you don't get it , killing innocent people is wrong , killing innocent people and calling it defense isn't defense , it is just very very wrong .
Does that answer your question ?

In what way would a civil war justify an intervention by Syria?
Now that is a complicated one Husar , on many levels .
Previous interventions by Syria have been welcomed around the world ,something to do with stability , minority rights and defense of that very strange electoral system that Lebanon has .
It goes wrong when either they outstay their welcome , they decide to take sides or the people outside who wanted them in there in the first place decide to take sides themselves .(the middle-east don't yajust love it ) .
Then you have the whole pile of bull about territorial claims , you know , greater Syria , like all of Lebanon Syria Palestine/Isreal Jordan and most of Iraq .
Crazy stuff , but thats the mid-east for ya , nuke the whole place , its easier .

[Husar]

How is defending yourself from attackers wrong?

Crazed Rabbit

Defense doesn´t mean rolling into the next country with your tanks, I´d call that an attack.
Same goes for firing missiles over a border.

[Redleg]

Anyone care to guess who supplied Hezabollah with the missiles that hit Haifa today?

"After the Zionist enemy exceeded all limits killing and destroying ... the Islamic Resistance announces that it bombarded the city of Haifa with dozens of Raad 2 and Raad 3 rockets at 9 a.m. local time," Hezbollah said in a statement, according to The Age.

What does this lead one to conclude?

And then there is this tidbit of information posted at globalsecurity.org

Hizballah seriously damaged a Saar 5-class missile ship named the "Spear" that was helping to enforce Israel's blockade of Lebanon on 14 July 2006. One Israeli sailor was killed and three were initially missing after the attack. Israel initially believed that an aerial drone armed with explosives hit the warship, but it became clear that Hizballah had used an Iranian-made C-802 cruise missile to strike the vessel. Another Hizballah radar-guided anti-ship missile hit and sank a nearby Cambodian merchant ship around the time the Spear was struck. Twelve Egyptian sailors were pulled from the water by passing ships.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ah-rockets.htm

THe disinformation that is being spread by all sides in the conflict is rather amazing. As global security correctly points out in its article the picture of the missile fired does not match the name. When one looks at the picture one see's a missile very similiar to one produced by a nation that is stating that it is not helping Hezabollah..

[Beirut]

Anyone care to guess who supplied Hezabollah with the missiles that hit Haifa today?

What does this lead one to conclude?

I don't know, the same thing as guessing who supplied Israel with the weapons that killed eight Canadians today who were visiting Lebanon, including several small children, all who lived fifty miles from me?

Everything?

Nothing?

[Redleg]

I don't know, the same thing as guessing who supplied Israel with the weapons that killed eight Canadians today who were visiting Lebanon, including several small children, all who lived fifty miles from me?

Everything?

Nothing?

That nation doesn't claim not to supply Israel with weapons now does it....... Now if the United States denied its supplying of weapons to Israel your comment would be warranted for the point - however since the United States does not deny its support to Israel - it seems your attempt here is misdirected once again.


Don't be blinded by the dis-information done by both sides.

[Reenk Roink]

That nation doesn't claim not to supply Israel with weapons now does it.......

Well the consequences and scrutiny for this nation are much less than for Iran...

[Redleg]

Well the consequences and scrutiny for this nation are much less than for Iran...

Now think about what Iran gains from a resumption of conflict between Israel and Hezabollah? What does Syria gain?

Take a look at what the papers in the Middle-East are saying. Its really all rather interesting and full of all kinds of propaganda.

not direct at you Reenk Roink just a rant in general

Has thinking become something that is lacking when it concerns the middle-east for most people? Is everyone so wrapped up in their emotional view points that they can not review information to see that something besides a conflict between Israel and Hezabollah is happening? Is the world burying its head in the sand once again about violence because it has become the expected consequence of anything to do with Israel and its neighbors?

Is Iran indeed attempting to deflect attention from its own agenda by refocusing the world's attention? Or as the propaganda papers are doing attempting to place blame squarely on the United States because of its support of Israel? Or like in the United States place blame squarely on Iran and Syria only? Given that other nations have not passed the recent call for a Ceasefire as posed by Lebanon to the Security Council - how can blame be passed onto any nation other then Israel and Hezabollah?

[Beirut]

That nation doesn't claim not to supply Israel with weapons now does it.......

Don't be blinded by the dis-information done by both sides.

What dis-information? They're dead.

[Redleg]

What dis-information? They're dead.

I wasn't speaking of the Canadian citizens killed in the Israeli Strike - besides your attempt here.

Care to guess who is supplying Hezabollah with weapons - weapons that they used to strike and kill several Israeli citizens. Or is that perfectly acceptable to you to kill Israeli civilians?


Canadian citizens that died are no better then Lebanese citizens that are dead - which are no better then Israeli citizens that are dead. Civilians are dead because of the power struggles of several countries and two terrorist organizations.

[Papewaio]

Redleg by your stance the weapons used by Israel that is used to shoot Lebanese or other countries children are the responsibility of USA.

Surely using helicopter gunships to vapourise vans full of tourists is a war crime. You don't want to go down the path of now saying the people who supplied the helicopter are responsible for the crimes that are done with it.

[Redleg]

Redleg by your stance the weapons used by Israel that is used to shoot Lebanese or other countries children are the responsibility of USA.

Incorrect assumption about my stance - I am actually speaking of a nation which denies involvement when their trademark is all over the place. But assume away. It will only lead you a certain definition of assume - one that I am asured you have seen me use before.

Surely using helicopter gunships to vapourise vans full of tourists is a war crime. You don't want to go down the path of now saying the people who supplied the helicopter are responsible for the crimes that are done with it.

Making the wrong assumption again about my statement. But assume away once again.

[Divinus Arma]

I don't know, the same thing as guessing who supplied Israel with the weapons that killed eight Canadians today who were visiting Lebanon, including several small children, all who lived fifty miles from me?

Everything?

Nothing?

Sorry there neighbor to the North, it is tragic, but does that make us at war? (Rhetorical of course) Your loss is equal to that of any civilian, from my nation as well. An Israeli rocket might well hit some of the 25,000 Americans in Lebanon. Would our loss be less than yours? Is the loss of any civilians less, regardless of nationality?

The government has a responsibility to disarm Lebanon in accordance with UN Resolutions. Hezbollah is a part of the government of Lebanon. Israel has made it quite clear that there intent now is to rid Lebanon of Hezbollah or see it disarmed by the Lebanese.

Is Israel going full monty on this? Yes. I hope we invade Canda or Mexcio if the Canadian or Mexican government support a terrorist organization that fires rockets onto our cities.

[solypsist]

Newt says it's time for the War on Terror to officially morph, like some kind of demented butterfly into the 3rd war to end all wars. What's your take? Is it time to get our world war on?

"This is World War III," Gingrich said. And once that's accepted, he said calls for restraint would fall away.
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.co...d_war_iii.html

He wants the gloves to come off, but to fight whom? We have no nation we're directly at odds with. We're dealing with factions of people inside of countries that in no way reflect the majority opinion or even the government position of that nation. I don't think WW3 has started yet but what Newt says bothers me. The whole creating a total war as it will give the common American no choice but to stay with the Republicans. Most people would be swayed by the argument that you don't radically change your government during a war and so they would support the current administration by voting Republican.

The question becomes are the Republicans so desperate and determined to retain the power they have that they would plunge the country, and the world along with it, into the conflagration that said war would naturally be?

Sadly the more I think about it I believe the answer is yes.

[Aenlic]

It's just more mindless drivel designed to provide sound bites without any real foundation behind it. Typical Newt Gingrich. The man is a liar, a cheat, a fraud, a demagogue, a hypocrite and many more things which I can't say, even in this forum. He's just another pseudo-conservative, chicken hawk war-monger who never served a day in the military. Stick his sorry butt in a uniform and put his whining face under fire on the front lines somewhere and see how long his enthusiasm for getting other people killed lasts.I'm not a big fan of easy to obtain abortion on demand; but someone should have demanded that his mother have an abortion before she spawned this scum-sucking toad. Not that I feel strongly about Newt Gingrich one way or another.

[Tribesman]

Return to the peanut gallery where you normally hangout....
oooooooooooh is that personal Red
Hey bubba , there is no point putting a resolution to the security council since even if it contains all the appropriate condemnations that uncle Vito insists on under the negroponte protocols , it still gets vetoed .
Now if you want to do something about it rather that getting a "little testy" then write to your government .
As unlike when johnny cakes and Vito are getting it on , when Bush and Olmert have their members in each others orifices it is the Palestinian and Lebanese civilians who are getting buggered .

[Redleg]

Return to the peanut gallery where you normally hangout....
oooooooooooh is that personal Red

Return to the peanut gallery - if I wanted to make it personal I would of.

Hey bubba

LOL using the term demonstrates that you have no clue - bubba. Maybe you should stop while your only slightly behind.

, there is no point putting a resolution to the security council since even if it contains all the appropriate condemnations that uncle Vito insists on under the negroponte protocols , it still gets vetoed .

[/quote]

Any resolution concerning Gaza will be vetoed that is most likely. However Lebanon one will have to wait and see. The United States supported the initial ceasefire conditions imposed on Israel, I don't see an automatic veto happening in this instance. Especially when its the Lebanese getting hurt more then Israel or Hezabollah.

Now if you want to do something about it rather that getting a "little testy" then write to your government .

Maybe you should write yours....

As unlike when johnny cakes and Vito are getting it on , when Bush and Olmert have their members in each others orifices it is the Palestinian and Lebanese civilians who are getting buggered .

When you can demonstrate a coherient and civil response come back, until then .....