Israel and the movement of things

[Redleg]

picking on typos is a last act of desperation

It also shows why I won't bother with responding.

[Tribesman]

picking on typos is a last act of desperation
No , picking on that typo was a light hearted finish to a post that had already dealt in detail with Redlegs point . Since of all words to get wrong in that context that one has to be the funniest possible

So since Redleg cannot be bothered to respond , can anyone else suggest what else I could write to my government concerning their actions between '00-'02 at the security council (or during their previous 2 year stint 20 years before) , apart from well done , nice try , try again next time ?

[Papewaio]

Tribe you are making an assumption methinks that Redleg agrees with the current situation.

I do not believe he does. I think he is frustrated with the attacks on Lebanon and the escalations occuring. I needled with assumptions and red herrings and he certainly didn't take the bait and defend the scenario that is occuring. From his reactions it seems clear that he is both annoyed with the UN security council and the all the permanent members stance including the US. He also seems annoyed with Iran fueling the fire.

=][=

For the consipiracy theorists:

I think Newt is being used to float an idea balloon with the public. If it sinks like lead then others might back down. If the public takes the bait...

Anyhow to me it seems interesting that the use of proxies is being downplayed and the puppetmasters are being emphasised. Almost like Israel was given tacit approval to escalate the situation as long as they could draw in Irans proxy and hence get Iran to be flagged in as a supporter of terrorism.

[Tribesman]

No assumption pape , I understand Reds position , though I thought " a little testy" is a bit mild . hence the which I think is more appropriate .
Red in the past has written to protest to his government when he thought their actions were wrong , I suggested he did the same again .
His government has the power to take action at the organisation which he is talking about .
He assumed I was extracting the urine about his position and came back with some rubbish about me writing to my govrernment , my government does not have the position his has , besides which when it has been appointed a position on that council it does have a good record , so what would there be to protest about concerning its actions in council ?
Ireland does not have a veto does it , though it does have an interest , while the Irish deployment has been scaled back it is demonstrated very well by the fact that of the 6 people I was working with today 4 have served in Lebanon .

[Papewaio]

Well your delivery technique has a lot to be worked on. Its kind of like Israels current negotiation skills, bomb away and then wonder why you get a curt response.

If you want to effect change rather then hurling peanuts then I suggest being a little more polite to each other.

[Redleg]

He assumed I was extracting the urine about his position and came back with some rubbish about me writing to my govrernment , my government does not have the position his has , besides which when it has been appointed a position on that council it does have a good record , so what would there be to protest about concerning its actions in council ?

Someone is assuming something that they should not have. I will give you a clue little tribese the use of extra punction at the end of a sentence could be an indication of something other then sincere prose....


You should of just stuck with Bubba while you were only slightly behind. Clue in Bubba in the background strumming his banjo attempting to play "Twisting in the Wind"

I am rather amused....

[Quietus]

Middle East Cup 2006

Israel: 200 points scored (181 civilians).
Hezbollah: 24 points scored (16 civilians).
Lebanon: 0 point

I'm afraid it's not that straightforward, my friend. They're collectively hurting everyone so the populace will hate the ones doing the hurting.
This is not doing Hesbollah a disfavor as far as the popular support is concerned, on the contrary...

I was just reiterating Israel's position. Of course, I agree with you. They will both hate the militia and Israel.

[stalin]

how did I end up here?

[Tribesman]

I am rather amused....
Well thats OK then . perhaps you won't jump to assumptions then Red , as there is no twisting in the wind no matter how much you try and play that tune , I have made my position clear throughout all the topics on this recent escalation in the mid-east .

will give you a clue little tribese the use of extra punction at the end of a sentence could be an indication of something other then sincere prose....

Would that be an assumption then ?

So I repeat ,Now if you want to do something about it rather that getting a "little testy" then write to your government .

[Redleg]

I am rather amused....
Well thats OK then . perhaps you won't jump to assumptions then Red , as there is no twisting in the wind no matter how much you try and play that tune , I have made my position clear throughout all the topics on this recent escalation in the mid-east .

And so have I.

Again you are missing something in this little exchange, but that is not to surprising since you often like to play the tune, but can stand to have it played back at you..... Bubba is really enjoying tuning his banjo, it seems Tribese wants to play also. Pass little ole tribese a spare banjo, Bubba begins playing his banjo. IN the background is his father/brother thinking about making a pig squeal...

Next time instead of attempting to be all bluster, bombastic, and clever, try a different method as Papewaio suggested.

[i]direct at Tribesman
Well your delivery technique has a lot to be worked on. Its kind of like Israels current negotiation skills, bomb away and then wonder why you get a curt response.

If you want to effect change rather then hurling peanuts then I suggest being a little more polite to each other.

Oh the message seems lost in the bluster and twisting in the wind....

will give you a clue little tribese the use of extra punction at the end of a sentence could be an indication of something other then sincere prose....

Would that be an assumption then ?

Not at all, but what the hell your attempt here is again not so surprising coming from you. But nice try at attempting to twist once again. Maybe you would be more comfortable with Chuck Berry's "Twist," Bubba seems to be staring at you thinking the same thoughts as his brother/father......

Bubba tunes his banjo and begins to strum "Twisting in the Wind"


Twistin' in the Wind (Tornado Temple BMI)
Joe Ely

My heavy heart pounds hard tonight
Down this highway in the wind
The windshield wipers clean away
The tears I cry within
The Love I've thrown away, I know,
I'll never feel again...
And I, I'm just Twistin' in the Wind

Some one cut me down from here
I can't prove what don't exist
Did you feel the same as I?
Or was there something I might have missed?
I turned my back on everyone
Who wanted me to win
I needed you so bad, I guess
That's the way I was back then
Now I, I'm just Twistin' in the Wind

I believe I'll go down to the bridge
And watch the trains roll by
See the sparks fly from their wheels
Where the rocks and the cinders lie
The weight I feel inside tonight
Could put a freight train in a spin
And I, I'm just Twistin' in the Wind

Repeat Chorus

Love made a fool of me
At the gates of the guillotine
I can't believe I heard the Truth
Comin' from your answering machine
How did I become this broken man?
Was I too blind to bend?
Now I, I'm just Twistin' in the Wind
I, yi yi yi, I'm just Twistin' in the Wind

Some one cut me down from here
I been Hangin' here too long
Release me from the Binds of Love
I can't tell Right from Wrong


Bubba looks up with a silly Bubba grin on his face.....Everyone knows what Bubba has on his mind.....

So I repeat ,Now if you want to do something about it rather that getting a "little testy" then write to your government .

So I repeat my comment, "Maybe you should write yours...." This time try to figure out reason for the comment versus the track that you have attempted so far.

And I remain amused by this little exchange - in fact I am getting even more amused as the day goes along, Edit: So amused that I wonder if you have figured out why Bubba is smiling....

[Seamus Fermanagh]

"Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow
Creeps in its petty pace from day to day
to the last syllable of recorded time.
And all our yesterdays serve but to light
fools the way to dusty death
out, out brief candle.
Life is a walking shadow, a poor player
whos struts and frets his hour upon the stage
and then is heard no more. It is a tale,
told by an idiot full of sound and fury --
signifying nothing."

[Idaho]

Middle East Cup 2006

Israel: 200 points scored (181 civilians).
Hezbollah: 24 points scored (16 civilians).
Lebanon: 0 point

This is typical of the situation as a whole. Israel has done far more of the murders, bombings, kidnappings, etc:

Basic Pal-Israel stats

[Husar]

Well, Israel also has far more soldiers, weapons, etc.
When you fire a single rocket, less dead are to be expected than when you fire a whole artillery battery, given the target areas are similarly crowded.
I wonder how those statistics would look if you gave the Palestinians a lot of toys to kill people with. Maybe they´d simply kill all Israelis...

[Tribesman]

Again you are missing something in this little exchange
Nope , missing nothing Red , you make assumptions , again .

[Idaho]

Well, Israel also has far more soldiers, weapons, etc.
When you fire a single rocket, less dead are to be expected than when you fire a whole artillery battery, given the target areas are similarly crowded.
I wonder how those statistics would look if you gave the Palestinians a lot of toys to kill people with. Maybe they´d simply kill all Israelis...

What a bizzare justification. So if one side has the ability to kill 10 times as many as the other side, then it is reasonable and fair that they should.

You have an illustrious career in law ahead of you

[Fragony]

What a bizzare justification. So if one side has the ability to kill 10 times as many as the other side, then it is reasonable and fair that they should.

You have an illustrious career in law ahead of you

And just because one side is more advanced doesn't mean the tactrics used by the other are legitimate. This is all way too excessive though, it appears hezbollah has/had a pretty impressive amount of rockets, it could be argued that Hezbollah has showed remarkable restraint in blowing up Israeli's, all this time they apparently could have done a whole lot worse. Israel has gone completily bonkers, it's a shame the other side is nuts as well.

[Tribesman]

Wow , I find myself in almost total agreement with Fragony !!!!!

[rotorgun]

To all and sundry who think that Isreal is using excessive force I say GAH!
How many nights have we watched the news reports to see of the suicide bombings in Isreal? I have no exact figures, but they are almost countless. Isreal has shown considerable constraint IMO. Where were all the complaints then? If someone were to come into my nieghborhood and pull some of the **** these Hamas and Hezbollah clowns have, I would have wanted to level the places where they originated from. When one is fighting a war, than one should fight it-all the way, in all of its ugly, nasty ways. There is no other way to fight, but to win. If they didn't want the consequences, than they never should have kidnapped anyone. The raid on Entebbe in the past should have taught the world of Isreal's resolve.

If you want to blame anyone, than blame Abraham. If only he had treated Hagar and Ishmeal a little better, than maybe there wouldn't be so much hatred between these people. They have been killing one another for thousands of years. Here we come, the "Johnny come lately's", trying to intervene in something that we have no business in. I swear, sometimes I wish that there weren't a drop of Oil in the middle east! Then perhaps we could let these folks sort things out in their own way.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Tribe' , Idaho:

Is there more to your perspective on this aside from:

'Innocents are dying, which is wrong, and both sides should just say no to violence'

which is pretty obvious on a humanitarian level.


It's also gloriously impractical.

Both sides are polarized and not only view concession as wrong but significant numbers on both "teams" truly believe that the application of enough force will generate victory. Therefore, violence will have to be tried to its fullest -- and both sides bled white -- before some form of lasting resolution can be generated.


There are historical instances where intransigent questions were resolved through measured discussion, I am sure, but the far more popular choice is to ventilate the opposition.


Until enough killing leaves both parties stunned, exhausted, unable to continue, and forced to talk; there will never be a "resolution" that lasts.

[Idaho]

The problem with it is that there can be no solution. For their to be a solution all the various sides must see it as a problem. Currently they see it as a war. And in wars you have winners and losers, not solutions.

My irritation comes from the fact that the people who are suffering most are not the people who see it as a war, but those who would rather just get on with a peaceful life.

rotorgun - your understanding of the situation is about on a par with your spelling and grammar.

[Fragony]

To all and sundry who think that Isreal is using excessive force I say GAH!
How many nights have we watched the news reports to see of the suicide bombings in Isreal? I have no exact figures, but they are almost countless. Isreal has shown considerable constraint IMO. Where were all the complaints then? If someone were to come into my nieghborhood and pull some of the **** these Hamas and Hezbollah clowns have, I would have wanted to level the places where they originated from. When one is fighting a war, than one should fight it-all the way, in all of its ugly, nasty ways. There is no other way to fight, but to win. If they didn't want the consequences, than they never should have kidnapped anyone. The raid on Entebbe in the past should have taught the world of Isreal's resolve.

Israel isn't the innocent victim they like to consider themselves to be, but yeah, they have to deal with a lot, and a lot of their lovely neightbours like their jews well done and spread out over 5 meters. Lovely place the middle-east, glad I don't have to have an opinion about it. But those that think this has anything to do with two soldiers being kidnapped need to scratch their head, it wasn't the socalled last drop, it was an oppertunity to go all out and show the other nutcases who's their daddy.

[Redleg]

Again you are missing something in this little exchange
Nope , missing nothing Red , you make assumptions , again .

It seems Tribese has a problem dealing with Bubba, that is what happens when one assumes things that they shouldn't. To bad Tribese you really do seem to not get the picture very well. So shall we move along - or do you want to continue to play. Bubba is really enjoying playing his banjo playing "Twisting in the Wind" just for you.......

[Ser Clegane]

If they didn't want the consequences, than they never should have kidnapped anyone.

What a lot of people have a problem with is that "they" who currently face the consequences are not necessarily "they" who kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

[Redleg]

What a lot of people have a problem with is that "they" who currently face the consequences are not necessarily "they" who kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

And Ser Clegane sums it up with one simple statement. Very nicely done.

[Tribesman]

It seems Tribese has a problem dealing with Bubba,
Another assumption Red, you are not doing very well are you .
To bad Tribese you really do seem to not get the picture very well.
More assumptions Red , perhaps you should try harder

The raid on Entebbe in the past should have taught the world of Isreal's resolve.

Possibly Rotor , but the follow up to the Olympics shows that they can also get it very wrong , and their their retreat from the Leb last time shows that their resolve does wane in the face of an unwinnable situation , excessive expense for little return and a tired population .
Unfortunately the nuts on the other side know this and don't give a damn about the innocents getting hurt , and the more of them that get hurt the more they resent Israel and support the nuts .
The main reason for the intensity of the current response is Olmerts weak position at home .

Until enough killing leaves both parties stunned, exhausted, unable to continue, and forced to talk; there will never be a "resolution" that lasts.
The problem there Seamus is that some of the parties involved are just sitting back and laughing , they will fight Israel till the last Lebanese/Palestinians are standing , it doesn't hurt them at all .

Is there more to your perspective on this aside from:
........
Nope , I only do shallow simplistic perspective without any consideration of the wider situation , the context , the prescedents and possible outcomes .
So here is something to mull over Seamus, what is your opinion on the Isrealis handing over maps showing the layout of minefields it had laid to Hezb'allah in part exchange for hostages ? Forget for a moment the hostages for prisoners exchange (though the 3 1/2 thousand "administrative" prisoners held without charge is something that should be addressed in a wider context but hezB'allahs main issue seems to be the 3 individuals they thought they were getting last time that they didn't get) .
So considering the peace deal , the hand over and demilitarisation , why the hell were the mines locations handed over to terrorists when they should have already been handed over to either the Lebanese government of the UN mission ?
Wouldn't it be really ironic if the 4 IDF soldiers killled in the Merkeva MBT turned out to have been killed by an Israeli mine that the Israeli government gave to the terrorists .
Or for some real irony , what if Iran ships some missiles to the Leb to target Israel that were originally sent to Iran by Israel for the Americans(after the little problem of the US shipments to Iran became public) in exchange for US hostages .

[Redleg]

It seems Tribese has a problem dealing with Bubba,
Another assumption Red, you are not doing very well are you .
To bad Tribese you really do seem to not get the picture very well.
More assumptions Red , perhaps you should try harder

Bubba has decided to focus on other things, since Tribese can not play the banjo, sings off-key, and can't remember his lines. Wanders off into the woods wondering if his sister/mother who is expecting a child, is going to give birth to a brother/son or just a brother.....

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Until enough killing leaves both parties stunned, exhausted, unable to continue, and forced to talk; there will never be a "resolution" that lasts.
The problem there Seamus is that some of the parties involved are just sitting back and laughing , they will fight Israel till the last Lebanese/Palestinians are standing , it doesn't hurt them at all.

Quite true. I regret that it is my belief that a general war involving, at a minimum, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan Israel, Iran, Hamas, Hizbollah, Al Quaeda (and probably Yemen and possibly Egypt) will have to precede any meaningful peace.

Is there more to your perspective on this aside from:
........
Nope , I only do shallow simplistic perspective without any consideration of the wider situation , the context , the prescedents and possible outcomes .

So here is something to mull over Seamus, what is your opinion on the Isrealis handing over maps showing the layout of minefields it had laid to Hezb'allah in part exchange for hostages ? Forget for a moment the hostages for prisoners exchange (though the 3 1/2 thousand "administrative" prisoners held without charge is something that should be addressed in a wider context but hezB'allahs main issue seems to be the 3 individuals they thought they were getting last time that they didn't get) .
So considering the peace deal , the hand over and demilitarisation , why the hell were the mines locations handed over to terrorists when they should have already been handed over to either the Lebanese government of the UN mission ?
Wouldn't it be really ironic if the 4 IDF soldiers killled in the Merkeva MBT turned out to have been killed by an Israeli mine that the Israeli government gave to the terrorists .
Or for some real irony , what if Iran ships some missiles to the Leb to target Israel that were originally sent to Iran by Israel for the Americans(after the little problem of the US shipments to Iran became public) in exchange for US hostages .

I'm not worried about the arms for hostages missiles -- primarily because of their age. Your general point about ironic turns in conflict is, of course, valid.

I wish they'd simply detonated the mines. Old-style mines that can be dug up and "turned around" are not a good idea, and making it easier by giving them the locations is not appealing to me. I'm even more annoyed at the slim possibility that they were dug up, shipped to Anbar province, and are now serving as IED's.

Ultimately, I find war abhorent; but I find wars that are waged half-arsed to be both STUPID and abhorent. If you come to the conclusion that you must rid yourself of a disease by amputating your hand, using a butterknife to minimize the damage of the individual cuts is counter productive. If you must wage war -- and it is a horrid choice, then cry havoc and be done with it.

[Tribesman]

Ultimately, I find war abhorent; but I find wars that are waged half-arsed to be both STUPID and abhorent. If you come to the conclusion that you must rid yourself of a disease by amputating your hand, using a butterknife to minimize the damage of the individual cuts is counter productive. If you must wage war -- and it is a horrid choice, then cry havoc and be done with it.
Problem there though Seamus , what is the purpose of this war (though they are being careful not to call it a war) , can it achieve its aims by the methods being used (or by any conventional military methods for that matter) ?
If not then it definately falls into the half-arsed stupid abhorrent category .


Red while you are off wandering in the woods , think .
I would hardly have been using the Russian/Yiddish derivative versions would I . So that should narrow it down .

[Redleg]

Red while you are off wandering in the woods , think .

I am always thinking - Bubba however is off wandering in the woods....

I would hardly have been using the Russian/Yiddish derivative versions would I . So that should narrow it down .

When you speak civil then you get a civil response. If you don't want to play with Bubba don't call him forth....

[Tribesman]

I am always thinking
Is that between or during assumption ?
When you speak civil then you get a civil response
Would you like a peanut Red ?