Q: Militia Sergeants/Urban Militia and bonuses from polearm.

[Biggus Diccus]

Both MS and UM are armed with polearms according to frogs unit guide, and as such they get a AP bonus. But do they get a bonus against cavalry as well?

[Csargo]

I am pretty sure MS's do but I'm not sure about UM's but I do know that UM's get bonus's against armored units.

[naut]

I'm pretty sure neither get a bonus against cavalry, at least thats what it says in the unitprod file. But I could be wrong as these two units generate a lot of confusion.

[ajaxfetish]

IIRC, virtually all units w/ polearms not only have the AP bonus, but also an anti-cavalry bonus, with the big exception being urban militia and militia sergeants. The cav bonus is independent of the polearm weapon.

Ajax

[naut]

IIRC, virtually all units w/ polearms not only have the AP bonus, but also an anti-cavalry bonus, with the big exception being urban militia and militia sergeants. The cav bonus is independent of the polearm weapon.

Thats right! I remember now. Only chivalratic foot knights and halbardiers get anti-cav bonuses!

[Biggus Diccus]

Thanks for the replies! I downloaded the excellent GnomeEditor and checked the stats in the unitprod file for myself. All polearm units get +3 att against cavalry except UM and MS as ajaxfetish stated.

That explains why my MS are crap against french royal knights....

[naut]

Thanks for the replies!

No problem, and regarding Royal Knights I like using a vice of two units of Feudal Sergeants to counter them.

[Sensei Warrior]

No problem, and regarding Royal Knights I like using a vice of two units of Feudal Sergeants to counter them.

A favorite tactic of mine as well.

[Ciaran]

You can still get a lot out of Militia Sergeants if you pin the cavalry down with some unit and rush the MS in from behind. They´ll do a solid job, in my opinion, Militia Sergeants are definitely underrated by most people. If you know how to use them they´re great.

[Deus ret.]

Second that. Their AP attack is well able to cause painful casualties esp. to heavy armoured opponents such as knights. of course, don't engage them frontally but given that MS are the only regular half-decent AP unit for catholics until high it would be a shame to completely ignore them. on the other hand UM are crap imho and do not even come into question for cannon fodder thanks to their morale.

[Biggus Diccus]

You can still get a lot out of Militia Sergeants if you pin the cavalry down with some unit and rush the MS in from behind. They´ll do a solid job, in my opinion, Militia Sergeants are definitely underrated by most people. If you know how to use them they´re great.

I agree! They are great when used as flankers or to fight cavalry in the woods. I have started my second campaign as the English now and I see that I can get +1 Clansmen (and later Gallowglasses) very early. I'll try the Clansmen as the flankers and see if they perform better. They are certainly very similar to the excellent Ghazis from my first campaign as the Turks.

The English certainly has a big advantage with +1 valor for Clansmen, Gallowglasses, Billmen and Longbows easily obtained.

[rvg]

I can only say this much: Militia Sergeants slaughter cavalry, both heavy and light. There is no explicitly stated anti-cav bonus, but my observations on the battlefield are more than enough to tell me than not only do they get a bonus, but it is a considerable one.

With regard to UM, I am not so sure. They do seem to carve up katanks better than vikings do, but then again, I have seen them lose to berber camels in melee. I would venture a guess that they get a *very small* anticav bonus.

[Martok]

Second that. Their AP attack is well able to cause painful casualties esp. to heavy armoured opponents such as knights. of course, don't engage them frontally but given that MS are the only regular half-decent AP unit for catholics until high it would be a shame to completely ignore them. on the other hand UM are crap imho and do not even come into question for cannon fodder thanks to their morale.

I have to agree with that statement in its entirety. So long as you don't have them engage head-on, Militia Seargents are very effective at taking out cavalry. They're also pretty good against heavy infantry, although again one should avoid using them in a frontal charge (unless you have a second unit of MS to flank).

I never have found a real use for Urban Militia. At best, I'll use them as cheap garrison troops and/or emergency reinforcements. They're not too terrible at assaulting castles, but there are other units that generally do the job much better.

[Sensei Warrior]

Urban Militia are the units I have a soft spot for. I like Urban Militia for no real tangible reason. It's kind of like really enjoying a movie that no one else on the planet could tolerate.

I know they suck, have morale isuues, a questionable AP bonus, and have an intense allergy to Cav charges and arrows, but when I was playing the English they really saved my bacon.

I was attacked by the French, and later the Germans in the very early stages of an Early Campaign. I had virtually no buildup on the mainland, except hobbies from Aquitaine and UMs from the other 2 provences. One of the 1st UMs built ended up with a really good general 4-5* (I think he's a hero general), I think his name was Tancrid de Normandie. I managed to hold off the Germans and the French with this ragtag army, which in the beginning was made up of nothing but hobbies and UM, with the bulk being UMs.

It was a great series of battles. I had more fun with that campaign then with alot of the others. I must admit they are rather lackluster, and definately not made for frontal assaults, but like all units if there shortcomings are kept in mind they can definately get the job done.

As an aside, I kept Tancrid until I conquered the map. In the end he was a 9-10* general w/ maxed out Weapons and Armor, with a insane amount of Virtues. It was funny, in the end fielding a lowly UM general with all the English Uber-units, against a field of UberUnits. There he is a crappy UM unit that could carve up practically anything he could get his hands on and would fight to the last man if need be.

To tie it into the topic however MS and UM do not get anti-cav bonuses so, stop with spears and use them to attack from opponents side or back. Once they work their way in they will perform as expected.

[Biggus Diccus]

As an aside, I kept Tancrid until I conquered the map. In the end he was a 9-10* general w/ maxed out Weapons and Armor, with a insane amount of Virtues. It was funny, in the end fielding a lowly UM general with all the English Uber-units, against a field of UberUnits. There he is a crappy UM unit that could carve up practically anything he could get his hands on and would fight to the last man if need be.

Najs! What was the units valour at the end? Picture?

[Sensei Warrior]

Najs! What was the units valour at the end? Picture?

I wish I could remember, but this was a game I played over 2 years ago. Unfortunately the pic is also long gone, comp viruses can be extremely frustrating.

Once I got done playing patty-cake with the French and HRE he already jumped a * or maybe 2, and had skilled attacker, and skilled defender. After I made a nice 4 provence Eastern Border that included Burgundy I was backstabbed by the Spanish and Argonese. I almost lost everything for a bit as he was on the eastern frontier, but I persevered. For a while I was so hard pressed he often was on the field a unit of one, just himself. I was so hard pressed for troops I often wound up leaving him by himself. Ended up being excommed for a bit, and used him to gain it all back plus the Iberian Penninsula.

He got expert defender during that. I slowly made my way across Africa and then North to Constant and the other pinch point, Georgia? During this whole time he led every battle, every crusade. I had already made him Lord Chamberlain and governor of Flanders.

During that, I started grooming him to be a killer general. He got the Educated trait line somewhere along with scant mercy. By the end he was truly the coolest toughest general I ever had.

Like I said, I think he was a hero general, whenever I played the English, and that was a number of times, I got him starting with the same stats, and same type of unit. I suppose I could recreate it if I wanted. Although, a good part of what made him was I was so hard pressed and so desperate the first part of the game. Anyways, that general was the reason I think nothing but good thoughts about lowly Urban Militia.

[naut]

I wish I could remember, but this was a game I played over 2 years ago. Unfortunately the pic is also long gone, comp viruses can be extremely frustrating.

Once I got done playing patty-cake with the French and HRE he already jumped a * or maybe 2, and had skilled attacker, and skilled defender. After I made a nice 4 provence Eastern Border that included Burgundy I was backstabbed by the Spanish and Argonese. I almost lost everything for a bit as he was on the eastern frontier, but I persevered. For a while I was so hard pressed he often was on the field a unit of one, just himself. I was so hard pressed for troops I often wound up leaving him by himself. Ended up being excommed for a bit, and used him to gain it all back plus the Iberian Penninsula.

He got expert defender during that. I slowly made my way across Africa and then North to Constant and the other pinch point, Georgia? During this whole time he led every battle, every crusade. I had already made him Lord Chamberlain and governor of Flanders.

During that, I started grooming him to be a killer general. He got the Educated trait line somewhere along with scant mercy. By the end he was truly the coolest toughest general I ever had.

Like I said, I think he was a hero general, whenever I played the English, and that was a number of times, I got him starting with the same stats, and same type of unit. I suppose I could recreate it if I wanted. Although, a good part of what made him was I was so hard pressed and so desperate the first part of the game. Anyways, that general was the reason I think nothing but good thoughts about lowly Urban Militia.

Was he anything like this? (about half way down the page)

[Sensei Warrior]

Yup kind of like the 9* Katatank, only with a pretty little gold shield and sword.

One of the other reasons I liked him was you see lots of high star generals that are Knights or Heavy Cav, but how many times do you see a high star general of a unit that isn't that great. You know Peasants, UM or 'trash' units like that. I like rooting for the underdog.

I was very proud to sculpt a general that was UM. Actually, I started another Campaign (I'm so easily distracted) with the English, and he is a general hero and starts with 4*, unfortunately, he also started with weak principles. Sigh, beggars can't be choosers.

[Martok]

One of the 1st UMs built ended up with a really good general 4-5* (I think he's a hero general), I think his name was Tancrid de Normandie.

Yes he is a hero unit. He was one of the higher-ranking nobles in the First Crusade, as a matter of fact. And yes, he quite uber.

[Sensei Warrior]

Yes he is. His only drawback is you get him with Weak Principles, or at least I do. Although, that's a pretty minor flaw, which is easily worked around.

[naut]

Yes he is. His only drawback is you get him with Weak Principles, or at least I do. Although, that's a pretty minor flaw, which is easily worked around.

The AI generally does not earn enough florins to bribe armies, usually at least.

[Sensei Warrior]

Usually, but I've had it happen to me before. Once, it was Italy, who was doing very, very well that game. I wouldn't put it past the money makers in the game, if they are doing well.

[Martok]

The AI generally does not earn enough florins to bribe armies, usually at least.

I won't ever claim that the AI bribes my armies often, but I wouldn't say it's extremely rare, either. I tend to be particularly wary of factions that are superpowers, as they are fairly likely to have enough spare cash to steal a general or two away from me.

[Sensei Warrior]

I won't ever claim that the AI bribes my armies often, but I wouldn't say it's extremely rare, either. I tend to be particularly wary of factions that are superpowers, as they are fairly likely to have enough spare cash to steal a general or two away from me.

Great minds think alike.

[naut]

I'm not saying it never happens, just not frequently.

[Sensei Warrior]

I'm not saying it never happens, just not frequently.

Sorry, about drawing that out like that. You are right it is rare, but the few times it has happened to me practically broke me.

I don't know how the Italians payed for it, but that example was with one of my best generals who was leading one of my main attacking armies. He was bribed just as I was using him to restabilize my country after a rebellion.

It took me decades to claw myself out of that mess. But you are right, it does happen rarely, typically only the superpowers can do it which generally means only you.

[caravel]

You can still get a lot out of Militia Sergeants if you pin the cavalry down with some unit and rush the MS in from behind. They´ll do a solid job, in my opinion, Militia Sergeants are definitely underrated by most people. If you know how to use them they´re great.

That is the optimal roles for MS. Their armour piercing bonus is great against any armoured troops even pinned cavalry. They don't have the cavalry attacking bonus however, so are not as effective against cavalry as Chivalric Foot Knights or Halberdiers. They're also good for flank attacks on other armoured units such as CSgt.

Urban Militia can be used similarly, to a lesser effect, though they need some upgrades and a good general to make their morale hold.

[Ciaran]

That´s why I hate facing Militia Sergeants as my opponents, there´s almost no unit that´s really good against them, maybe apart crossbows. They´re too heavily armoured for Chivalric Men at Arms to be effective and their AP ability lets them kill other AP units such as Chivalric Foot Knights, Halberdiers or Gothic Foot Knights too easily.

Maybe I should try Urban Militia or Woodsmen, at least something with AP, but without much armour.

[caravel]

Not a problem for me, I tend to ride them down with Armenian Heavy Cavalry or shoot them to pieces with Futuwwa. You could even try, dare I mention it, camels, they beat everything.

[Vlad The Impala]

Thats right! I remember now. Only chivalratic foot knights and halbardiers get anti-cav bonuses!

Janissary heavy Infantry.