Can you not keep 1.2 diplomacy in EB 0.8?

**Dayve** · 07-20-2006, 02:56

I shall try it Sark, but it's impossible for me to get a diplomat with high influence you see... I have 4 in my current campaign... One in Africa, one in Gaul, one in Germany (they are allies of mine, they asked for it, not me) and one in the far east, and all 4 have 0 reafs and traits like 'undiplomatic' and 'discourteous', and if you look at other diplomats on the map with a spy, they also have these traits... 1.5 makes diplomats useless not just for the human but for the AI too.

**mcsquared** · 07-20-2006, 04:05

"even if you just ask them for a trade rights!"

I've NEVER had a neutral faction turn down trade rights with me. I think your diplomat could be one step removed from a hyena and the other faction would agree to trade rights! There is one caveat, however, in 1.5 or 1.6, if you have gotten a refusal for anything from a particaular faction, say an alliance, you will get turned down for anything if you ask during the same turn. After the next turn you can ask for trade rights again and get them.

**mcsquared** · 07-20-2006, 04:20

I forgot to mention that just for fun, while playing the Ptolemics, at the beginning of the game, I asked for alliances with every neutral faction. I was turned down by all but the Romans! I also didn't notice any difference when my diplomat "negotiated" with another faction's diplomat or ANY of that factions people be they faction leaders, cities or just captains. Maybe CA finally realizes that the changes to the diplomacy in 1.5 and 1.6 suck, they left diplomats out of Alexander entirely! hah!

**O'ETAIPOS** · 07-20-2006, 10:39

AI is not accepting ceasefire if they have more troops, no matter how crappy - only number matter. Also core attitudes play huge role so some factions will not negotiate with some others no matter what occasion.

**Dayve** · 07-20-2006, 11:31

Right, i have started a new campaign on H/M as the Romans and changed my way of playing.

From the start, i acquired trade rights with the Gauls, Iberians, Cartheginians, Illyrians and Macedonians with no problem at all. I never left my starting borders with any armies or spies and never attacked anything, not even rebels. After about 4 years of no action between me and the Greeks, they asked for a ceasefire which i granted. Then i asked for trade rights which they granted. The Germans have come to me with an offer of alliance which they did exactly the same thing in my last game.

The Cartheginains attacked the Greeks in Sicily, took Syracuse from them and have taken Rhegium from them. (Yes, the Carthies have expanded into Italy, shock horror) At this point i started to fund the neutral Greeks with about 2k each turn, in return for them attacking the Cartheginians who i am neutral to. I also have been funding the Iberians to attack Carthage, and they have eliminated their cities in Iberia altogether.

After i noticed 3 full stack Cartheginian armies in southern Italy, i decided i should expand a little incase of war since i had only 3 cities, so i laid siege to Ariminum. Gaul had taken Arretium, so i sent a diplomat and negotiated a deal where they gave me Arretium and i gave them 11k. Success! Arretium was mine, Ariminum surrendered without a fight. The Gauls then laid siege to the city they just sold so i'm now at war with them BUT i have been entirely defensive. I have attacked only when they have crossed my borders, and i have sent no aggressive force over to their borders, not even spies or assassins. They asked for a ceasefire after i whooped them a few times but then declared war again so i'm still at war with them now, killing off an army that tries to raid Arretium every 4 turns or so.

In the south, Illyria had landed a tiny force outside of Corfinium and laid siege to it. They took the city and i bought it from them for 6k. I didn't bribe it, i actually bought it from them as in demand the city and offer 6k for it. I am still neutral with them. I saw a Cartheginian army marching toward Paestum so i quickly laid siege to it so that they couldn't spread their influence further in Italy. I took it and put my army outside the city. The Cartheginians attacked my army, and after a battle which i almost lost, i asked for a ceasefire which they accepted, which i see as a success, even if it doesn't last. I call this the 15 minute war, since from start to finish, the war lasted the time it took for me to win the battle, which was 15 minutes give or take a minute or two.

After i had funded the Greeks around 20k, i asked for an alliance, which they accepted. Another success! The alliance seems now to be broken for some reason, we are just neutral instead of allies, but still there has been no physical fighting between me or Greece so far.

All in all it's been a good game. The Italian peninsula has seen much action and is has been home to 5 different factions so far. (Gauls, Romans, Greeks, Illyrians and Cartheginians), and southern Italy is still in the hands of the Greeks and Carthies so it's proving to be a very interesting game.

So it is all about the way you play. You be aggressive from the start with ANYBODY, and diplomacy will be non existant. You be defensive and considerate, diplomacy will be somewhat bearable and realistic.

**Lusted** · 07-20-2006, 11:53

The main thing to remember on 1.5 is to play on H campaign difficulty and not VH, just look at the difference in your 2 cmapaigns Dayve, the first one on VH where no one would accept anything, and the 2nd on hard where the ai did accept your offers. THe ai on VH is set up so it wont accept your offers so you have a hard time in the campaign, i find hard is the best difficulty as it allows you to still make offers the ai will accept whist also giving the ai the cheating cash bonus to make things hard.
And unit recruitment costs are perhaps the biggerst factor in deciding what units the ai will spend its money on.

**-Praetor-** · 07-20-2006, 21:50

Originally Posted by Dayve

So it is all about the way you play. You be aggressive from the start with ANYBODY, and diplomacy will be non existant. You be defensive and considerate, diplomacy will be somewhat bearable and realistic.

I`ve also noticed that symptoms on my campaigns, even when I play on VH...

So, maybe the Diplomacy is not alltogether dumb as we all think... nooone would make an alliance with someone you know it will make an agression to you... well, neither the AI.

Maybe we should study the diplomacy a little bit more, and try to understand it. In my EB game, playing VH-M, as Arvernii I`m allied with the Aeduii (which I kicked to their possesions in cisalpine gaul), iberia and sweboz... and I`ve played a "no first move" policy in my wars...