Guilds??

[Ibn Munqidh]

Hi,

Reading through the wiki entry for mtw2, I read the section regarding guilds, and didnt understand a damn thing. What are they?? Every cuty gets to build a "guild", which in turn is connected to a "master guild" (probably in the capital(?)).

Do these guilds imprint the city's background or purpose? For example, an arms and armour guild built in a city, makes it a center for such production? Can someone please clarify.

[Ituralde]

The way I understand that Guilds work is that whenever you do a lot in a certain direction an appropriate Guild offers to set up in one of your towns. This depends on what you do, so I better give some examples:

You build a lot of structures in say Toledo. Now the Stonemason's guild comes along and offerst to set up a Guild house in Toledo. You agree/build (Not too sure about that one) the Guild house. If you then build even more structures in Toledo you may be able to build the Master Guild house of all stonemasons in Toledo, which will give you unique advantages and block other factions from building it themselves.

You assasinate thousands of characters every turn, so one day the Assasins Guild knocks on your door and offers to set up one of their Guid houses in one of your town. Either they just randomly select one of your towns or you get to choose where to put them.

You go on Crusades a lot and the Knights Templar/Knights of Santiago offer to set up their Chapter House in one of your towns.

Hope that clarified it. As mentioned I'm not sure if you get to choose at some point where to put some guilds that you gained through 'global' achievements. Furthermore it is important to notice that you can only have ONE Guild house/Chapter house within your city. So you have to choose carefully and might rather want to wait for a better Guild house to come along. Well, that's all I know about that issue.

Cheers!

Ituralde

[Alien_Tortoise2345]

The Guilds in Medieval times were companies given a monopoly in a certain sector of commerce by a king or ruler. Maybe that explains it I dunno.

[zakalwe]

Hmmm - sounds interesting. I'd always just assumed they were the high end buildings like in MTW. eg Bowyer's Guild being the Lvl 6 archer building

[sunsmountain]

Q. What types of new buildings are being added?

A. One of the most significant additions we’ve made to the tech tree for Medieval 2 is the addition of Guild halls. There are various different types of guild that give different bonuses to your settlements. Each city can have only one guild that will give local bonuses to that city. As examples the assassin’s guild will increase the skill of assassins and some guilds will give access to extra units too.

In addition each faction can have one master guild for each guild type that gives bigger bonuses, some of which may apply across all the faction’s cities. Further to this, it is possible to build a grandmaster guild that is a sort of global HQ for that guild type. There can only be one grandmaster building for each guild in the world, so whoever gets it first will have an edge in that particular area.

This means:

City:
At city level 5 (or some other level, it doesn't have to be level 5) you can build Farms level 5 (advanced irrigation), giving access to The Guild of the Farmers, which (for example) gives 10% loyalty bonus and +1 to farming to that city.

At city level 6 (probably) The Master Guild of Farmers is simply an upgrade of the Guild of Farmers and gives 20% loyalty bonuses and +2 to farming in all your cities (not your castles!). All factions can and probably will get this, eventually, if they survive.

Even if you have 5 cities with The Guild of the Farmers, only one of them can build the Master Guild. But given enough cities, you can get:
1 Master Guild of the Farmers
1 Master Guild of the Traders
1 Master Guild of the Navigators
etc..

If you're the first to have a level 6 (definitely) city with a Master Guild, and nobody else has built the Grandmaster Guild, you can build it. You will probably not have to wait for a random event.
The Grandmaster Guild of the Farmers is like a world wonder, (for example) +40% to loyalty, +4 to farming, +2 to trading, etc. a huge benefit. If you build fast enough you can turn all your Master Guilds into Grandmaster Guilds. Given the current slow and not-so-intelligent building choices of the Rome TW AI, this should not be a problem to a skilled player. I just pray CA will come up with something better than an AI focusing on "Loyalty" when selecting buildings...


Castle:
At castle level 5 you can build Barracks to level 5, giving acces to The Infantry Guild, giving a +1 bonus to experience to all infantry troops trained there and allows you to recruit the best infantry foot unit of your faction. For zee Germans, that is for example zee Gozhic Foos Knight.

At castle level 6 The Master Infantry Guild is an upgrade, giving +2 experience to all infantry units produced.
1 Master Infantry Guild
1 Master Cavalry Guild
1 Master Archery Guild
etc..

The Grandmaster Infantry Guild gives all your infantry units Good Morale, Good Stamina, +3 experience and reduces hiring costs by 25%.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Are you just guessing?

Unless you have to actually attract the guild to build the structure this is going to be like temples in ROME, i.e. not that special.

[Bob the Insane]

While I think your reasoning is sound I live in horror of actually seeing:

Infantry Guild
Cavalry Guild
Archery Guild

Would this be some sort of mercenary thing??

[zakalwe]

Interesting thoughts.

[magnum]

I don't think CA has given more than a cursory explanation on how Guilds will work. I had assumed (hoped?) that they would use something similar to the traits system for guilds. Actions and events would add or remove points to a trait/variable. Once a certain point level has been reached, the faction would be able to build that guild hall. Depending on the specific implementation, this type of system would be both flexible and could allow modders the ability to modify the system if they so choose.

For example, Knight Templar Guild:

Every time you launch a crusade, you get 1 point in CrusaderGuild. A succesful crusade is another +1 point. An unsuccessful crusade is -1 point. Getting a warning from the pope to be nice is -1 point. Being excommunicated is -10 points, etc. etc. Once/if you hit 10 points you get a pop-up message message stating 'The Knights Templar have requested blah blah blah.' (or possibly the building just appears in your list of possible buildings to build.) At 25 points you get another message this time requesting the right to build a Master Guild Hall. Finally, at 60 points (and if no one else has built one yet--better to go with no one else has made 60 points yet to avoid two factions building one at the same time resulting in two being built) the faction is offered the chance to build a GrandMaster Guild Hall.

At least, that's how I had envisioned it. It is one of the new features that I'm looking forward to see how its implimented and what all can be done with it. One of those features that adds flavor to the game.

[Ituralde]

That's how I also always understood it and have tried to point out in my previous post. Actually I would be really disappointed if it were implemented in the fashion sunsmountain suggested, because then there really wouldn't be anything too special about them. I also hope that they don't feel the need to make a guild vor everything.
I guess we'll have to wait for some more information on the subject before drawing the final clues, but I really hope they are not directly incorporated into the tech tree.

Cheers!

Ituralde

[sunsmountain]

That's how I also always understood it and have tried to point out in my previous post. Actually I would be really disappointed if it were implemented in the fashion sunsmountain suggested, because then there really wouldn't be anything too special about them. I also hope that they don't feel the need to make a guild vor everything.

I know Ituralde, and I agree with your sentiments. I base my speculations on the statement that guilds are an addition to the tech tree, but i don't know what triggers them.

All buildings in Rome:TW are triggered by buildings, not a single one of them is event dependent, nor action dependent. The other way around, the first Roman Imperial Palace (governor building level 5) triggers the Marius Reforms, though that was changed to make it date (turn) dependent instead of building pendent. I don't know about RTW:BI...

Building dependent:

Boring, AI cannot build up cities as fast as we can. Any tech requirement for guilds will cripple the chances of the AI on the campaign map.

Random Event dependent:

Ok, but then you have to get lucky/reload = boring. This is not very strategic, though it can give flavour to factions if they are more likely to get some guilds than others.

Action dependent:

In other words, what amount of infantry or farms or assassinations or character traits do you have to get before you get the offer to build for example an Infantry Guild? Given enough points you can get all the guilds, but which one you get first depends on what you do first. I like this one, but a larger starting area or family should require you to get a larger number before you get the offer, or larger factions will have an advantage (which is not so bad i guess).

This option also considers the fact that the game is usually over after 100 turns, since you have to balance that "required number" somehow. If they can make 500 years go by in 100 turns they won't have to program different eras (Early, High, Late), so you'll actually see the late Aztecs/content this time around... anyone seen Jesus born in Rome:TW? Didn't think so...

I feel that a game's tech tree should be finished after about 2/3rds of the game.

Time dependent:

1. Glory points dependent? After a certain amount of glory points, the first guild options appear. Master guild options appear at the next checkpoints, and grandmaster guilds towards the end of the game. Only works for a set total (could be starting year dependent), ie, 1000 glory points wins you the game, if anyone gets 300 points the guild options start appearing.

2. Controlled area dependent? If you have to get 50 areas to win, a typical Rome:TW victory condition, as soon as any factions has 12 areas guilds start appearing. 24 areas: master guilds, 36 areas: grandmaster guilds.


As for the Master and the Grandmaster Guild, it seems logical to require you to have the basic Guild first. Then its a building race against the others. Or continue getting more Crusader points. Both are

[Ibn Munqidh]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Lets keep discussing this up.

[Ituralde]

Just listening to the new Podcast from twcenter.net, they're interviewing some guy about cities and castles and he gives some information about Guilds too.

And luckyil for us the acquisition of guild is Action dependant. There are two examples given.

If you build up trade in your regions the Merchant guild will approach you and offer to set up their Guild.
If you build a lot of Military structures the Weaponsmith guild will approach you and offer to set up their Guild.
They also say, that guilds were a major power in Medieval Times so they tried to project this in the game.

This correspons quite nicely to the information given in the Second FAQ on www.totalwar.com , which states that Guilds can now assign you missions.

It really seems like Guilds will be one of the most interesting new features in M2:TW, something I've expected from the beginning, but with every new information released on them it's shaping up more and more!

[4th Dimension]

It seems to me that too many people will be bosing you around too.
We get missions form, Pope, Nobile council and Guilds.

I realy hope they don't give us contradicting orders, or if they do it should be a bit historicaly.

[Darth Nihilus]

So far it sounds like a really good addition to the game. As far as what I've heard, it won't be the same as the guilds in the original,which really weren't even guilds, but advanced archery, stables, and so on.

[Tamur]

Thanks for the info Ituralde! That was news to me that guilds act on their own and not on the command of the player. Definitely adds a nice new layer to city life.

One thing I'm hoping is that, if you focus on trade and get merchant guilds in your cities and eventually get the master trade guild in one of your cities, that all the focus will not be rewarded with a quick crushing of your cities by some army. It seems that the diplomacy system would need to take these options into account... i.e. if you've got the master trade guild for the entire world-map, then every other faction will be more willing to pay for trade agreements with you, not attack your merchants, etc.

[Darth Nihilus]

maybe I wasn't paying enough attention, but is it possible for your faction to have more than one masters guild (and yes I realize they couldn't be in the same city).

[Pras the Reaper]

Hey Guys, thought I'd pop on and clarify this. Basically Ituralde and Magnum pretty much have the jist of it (although Magnum, since turns are sequential not simultaneous there's no danger of two factions being able to both build the top level).

Your actions attract guilds to your settlements, though all your settlements earn guilds separately, on any turn a faction can be offered a maximum of one guild / chapter (to avoid spamming). If you choose to take it and can pay the cost the guild will set up in the settlement.

[Faenaris]

Thanks for the reply, Pras. :)

[Ibn Munqidh]

Thanks for the reply Pras, and thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

[Mr. Longbowman]

I have heard that you can get guilds for templar knights and such, if so, can you recruit them at anytime or only for crusades?

[poo_for_brains]

If the Pope calls crusades, not individual factions, who keeps the holy land after it has been captured? Is it whoever contributes the most men?

I know this is off-topic, but I can't create new threads, so I thought I'd ask here. Does anybody know?

[Ituralde]

It says in the new newsletter that it will be some kind of race. Meaning that whoever gets his army there first will be able to seize the objective. So there probably won't be any real mixed Crusades unlike in History where the French, English and German joined in a Crusade an actually fought together.
With luck though you could be marching side by side with another faction's Crusade that has the same objective.

[Tamur]

I wonder if this will lead to cav-based armies for crusade? That's a topic for another thread though.

[sunsmountain]

Hey Guys, thought I'd pop on and clarify this. Basically Ituralde and Magnum pretty much have the jist of it (although Magnum, since turns are sequential not simultaneous there's no danger of two factions being able to both build the top level).

Your actions attract guilds to your settlements, though all your settlements earn guilds separately, on any turn a faction can be offered a maximum of one guild / chapter (to avoid spamming). If you choose to take it and can pay the cost the guild will set up in the settlement.

Glad I'm wrong and that you chose action-based triggers for the guilds. But are you saying the guild will choose in which settlement they want to be? And is there still the restriction of 1 guild per settlement? Or do the normal, master and grandmaster guild appear next to each other when they are built?

[poo_for_brains]

It says in the new newsletter that it will be some kind of race. Meaning that whoever gets his army there first will be able to seize the objective. So there probably won't be any real mixed Crusades unlike in History where the French, English and German joined in a Crusade an actually fought together.
With luck though you could be marching side by side with another faction's Crusade that has the same objective.

Cheers for the clarification. Although I am disappointed not to be able to go to war alongside a couple of huge AI armies - it would lend a suitably epic nature to the battle.
The way it is now, it's a bit too much like a normal conquest, (except for access to a few cool special troops, like templars etc.)

[Ituralde]

First off, sorry for further derailing this post, but the original issue is pretty much answered and damiekpe makes some good questions I just can't resist answering.

Besides giving you the conquered land, Crusades will also give you money and Fame upon completion of your objective. Furthermore your Generals that go on Crusade can earn unique Crusader virtues. So I think they added a real motivation for going on Crusade. In M:TW there was no reason to go on Crusade, because frankly your money was better invested in conquering some neighbouring provinces. With the M2:TW system I might even find myself going on the Crusades for gameplay reasons and not because I think it's fun to replay history as a Crusaders army.

[Pras the Reaper]

Re Crusades, each army stack will be controlled by a single faction but multiple factions can be on crusade simultaneously and each faction can have multiple crusading armies. Also there's only one crusade at a time so all these crusading armies will be converging on the same point. So rest assured your dreams of being "able to go to war alongside a couple of huge AI armies" haven't been crushed.

[Peasant Phill]

Great really looking forward to this. In MTW the battles I enjoyed the most were those with multiple factions involved.

Thanks Pras for this clarification.

[AussieGiant]

Well, well, well...three holes in the ground.

This Crusading thingy is sounding very intriguing.

One call to arms for a crusade to a certain destination, and then multiple nations raising and competing to get there first,or together in a co-ordinated fashion.

Holy Hell this is starting to sound great.

Thanks for the Titbits Pras!!