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Thread: Random scenario

  1. #1
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Random scenario

    Let us say, there is a tower block. In which, is the headquarters of an organisation. This tower block lies within an area where if not direct support of said organisation, local sympathies are at the least neutral. The tower block is also home to an indeterminate number of civilians.

    This organisation has been staging attacks on your state. Bombings, kidnappings, etc.

    What do you do?

    Bomb the building? Send in troops to target only the HQ? Ignore them and let them get on with their merry bomb-making?

    Completely unrelated to anything going on at the moment... honest.
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  2. #2
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    You really hate the UN don't you
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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  3. #3
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    You really hate the UN don't you
    Just it's ineffectiveness. If it were an organisation capable of scaring anyone, even the US, into toeing the line, on the other hand...

    Addendum - I would however, whole-heartedly support a proper attempt at a true world government. Nation-states tend to bicker pointlessly.
    Last edited by Somebody Else; 07-21-2006 at 04:32.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Somebody Else
    .

    Addendum - I would however, whole-heartedly support a proper attempt at a true world government. Nation-states tend to bicker pointlessly.
    Only a volunteer world government. I think the EU is a great example of what global governance could be (at least from what little I know of it). Before the anti EU people jump on me and my ignorance, let me at least express what I like:

    Voluntary membership- Nations may leave at any time.
    A unified currency- just makes everything much more stable.
    Voluntary Military Contributions.

    Basically, I like that it is based on volunteerims in every aspect rather than compulsary membership. The United States, for example, is entirely compulsary. This is not something I agree with. I much prefer a confederation of sovereign states unified in economic and political policy by choice.

    A huge all-powerful federal government is baaaaaaad. Why? Because the leadership is too far removed from the electorate. The people lose all power. At least in a confederation, power is distributed.
    Last edited by Divinus Arma; 07-21-2006 at 04:45.
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  5. #5
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic
    Only a volunteer world government. I think the EU is a great example of what global governance could be (at least from what little I know of it). Before the anti EU people jump on me and my ignorance, let me at least express what I like:

    Voluntary membership- Nations may leave at any time.[i]
    A unified currency- just makes everything much more stable.[ii]
    Voluntary Military Contributions.

    Basically, I like that it is based on volunteerims in every aspect rather than compulsary membership. The United States, for example, is entirely compulsary. This is not something I agree with. I much prefer a confederation of sovereign states unified in economic and political policy by choice.

    A huge all-powerful federal government is baaaaaaad. Why? Because the leadership is too far removed from the electorate. The people lose all power. At least in a confederation, power is distributed.
    Voluntary membership- Nations may leave at any time.

    [i] Voluntary yes, but only as far as the politicians being duplicitous with the electorate. The EU was never sold to the UK electorate as a political union. It was always touted as being an economic entity. More like the NAFTA. It is almost impossible to leave as well. All laws drafted in Bruxelles have to be implemented in the member states, whether they like it or not. Sovereign Parliaments elected by the member states have no choice than to rubber stamp these laws, even though they are conjured up by unelected bureaucrats.

    A unified currency- just makes everything much more stable.

    [ii]Sorry my fellow Orgah, the Pound Sterling is alive and well and doing fine thankyou very much.

    I refer the Right Honourable Gentleman to my post in the EU constitution thread where I covered the Euro issue.
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  6. #6
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Somebody Else
    What do you do?
    Cut of the food supply and allow civilians to leave. Easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic
    I think the EU is a great example of what global governance could be
    Hold it right there, who are you and what have you done to Divinus Arma?? I am starting to get worried about you mia muca

  7. #7
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    Cut of the food supply and allow civilians to leave. Easy.
    The civilians who are passively, if not actively aiding the terrorists? If they do, how do you know the terrorists haven't left with them?
    Don't have any aspirations - they're doomed to fail.

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  8. #8
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Somebody Else
    The civilians who are passively, if not actively aiding the terrorists? If they do, how do you know the terrorists haven't left with them?
    Hmmmm good one. Apprarently I am not the machiavelli I thought I was, let's just kill them all just for kicks and giggles, let god decide who was guilty.

    A more human aproach would be to fill the building with sleeping gas!

    and then kill them all

  9. #9
    Clan Takiyama Senior Member R'as al Ghul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    A more human aproach would be to fill the building with sleeping gas!
    Done!

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  10. #10
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Yeah, so we can have more and smaller wars.


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  11. #11

    Default Re: Random scenario

    Historical scenario
    I was reading last night about a group in a refugee area who were supplied with enough weapons from outside groups to successfully resist deportation by attacking from rooftops, cellars and attics. In trying to remove them, 20 government soldiers were killed. The government responded with attacks by tanks and artillery, versus the refugees armed with smuggled in pistols, rifles, a few machine guns, grenades and Molotov cocktails. The first attack was repulsed, leaving another 12 government soldiers dead. The soldiers found it very difficult to kill or capture the small battle groups, who would fight, then retreat through a maze of cellars, sewers and other hidden passageways to escape capture, disappearing into the noncombatant areas. Air strikes were ordered, setting apartment buildings from which resistance occurred on fire, in an effort to kill those hiding among the noncombatants (who were almost certainly aware of their presence and may have in fact assisted them.) But of course this is all justified, as a necessary government response to the attacks.
    So was the government justified ?

  12. #12
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Incidentally - my question was in part inspired by something I heard about a US training exercise. 50 men playing enemy, holed up in an apartment block. Best part of 2000 marines 'died' to take the building. Now, I haven't verified this - but I've had a brush with some FIBUA, and it seems believable.
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  13. #13
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
    Screw world government. We need to split into more and smaller states.
    Hello? The Balkans?


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  14. #14

    Default Re: Random scenario

    We need to split into more and smaller states
    Interesting .
    What? How dare you. The Balkans are insane, like the Middle-East and Africa. You just can't compare the rest of the world to those nations.
    So would you care to guess how many of the current nations in the world do not have international territorial disputes ? Or alternately domestic seperatist issues ?
    So I suppose you wouldn't have any objection if the radical mexican groups got their independant country down south , which states is it they are claiming are their homeland? And of course you can give the white supremacists the 5 northwestern states they want for their new country , but of course you cannot compare them to other groups in other countries can you , as the other groups are crazy aren't they .

  15. #15
    Gangrenous Member Justiciar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Yeah, so we can have more and smaller wars.
    As opposed to colossal all-encompassing global wars with the threat of a nuclear holocaust and whole generations shot to pieces? Deal.
    When Adam delved and Eve span, Who was then the gentleman? From the beginning all men by nature were created alike, and our bondage or servitude came in by the unjust oppression of naughty men. For if God would have had any bondsmen from the beginning, he would have appointed who should be bound, and who free. And therefore I exhort you to consider that now the time is come, appointed to us by God, in which ye may (if ye will) cast off the yoke of bondage, and recover liberty. - John Ball

  16. #16
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Justiciar
    As opposed to colossal all-encompassing global wars with the threat of a nuclear holocaust and whole generations shot to pieces? Deal.
    I suppose it'd give all those ex-army chaps plenty of work... Time to go get myself a commission then.
    Don't have any aspirations - they're doomed to fail.

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  17. #17

    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
    What? How dare you. The Balkans are insane, like the Middle-East and Africa. You just can't compare the rest of the world to those nations.
    I happen to be doing a fairly sizeable analysis of Eastern Europe and the Balkans right now. I'm giving a teleconference presentation on the subject this Monday.

    It's actually not quite as bad as one might expect and is showing much improvement. As a matter of fact, I am recommending the former Yugoslav republic of Slovenia as the target market to install a regional headquarters, over Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary. I still need to check some tax info, but Slovenia is doing great. The real probs still remain in the ethnic conflicts between Serbs, Albanians, Croats, and Bosniaks. I wouldn't do business in Serbis or Bosnia right now. However, the region as a whole is showing great promise for multi-national corporate market opportunities.

    Here's the first draft of the brief history component (Still requires quite a bit of clean-up and source referencing):


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Regional History

    Eastern Europe is defined by many similarities in history. Nearly all of these similarities are shared in ethnic conflict and communist control. Without exception, each nation in modern Eastern Europe is of former communist control and all are taking strides, with varying degrees of success, towards greater democratization.
    It is fair to note that Eastern Europe can be divided based on one shared allegiance: that of Yugoslavia. Where Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, and Hungary each share their own independent history, the former republics of Yugoslavia all share a fairly common recent past. Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary all have benefited from a lack of ethnic conflict. The national boundaries have existed for some time, and all have homogeneity in ethnicity, religion, and language. This is not the case in the former republics of Yugoslavia, where ethnicity and religion have played a predominant role in shaping the conflicts and challenges of post-communist governance. Perhaps unique from its counterpart former Yugoslav republics, is Slovenia. Slovenia has largely been spared the ethnic and religious conflicts due in part to its homogeneity. Slovenia rapidly separated from Yugoslavia and has been, by far, the most successful of the post-Yugoslav states to implement democracy and economic prosperity.

    Poland: Modernly defined by the end of WWII and Communist control thereafter until 1990. The country had several large groups of ethnic minorities prior to WWII but is now essentially homogenous with Poles. Communist rule supported by the Soviet Union dominated the economic and political spectrum following Polish re-assertion of independence after World War II. Communism collapsed in Poland in the 1990’s, and the first free parliamentary elections were held in 1991. Since then, Poland has made steady progress in reforming towards a modern market economy. Poland abandoned the Warsaw Pact in 1991 and was officially accepted into the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in 1999. Poland acceded into the European Union in 2004, and is required by treaty to eventually accept the Euro as its official currency.

    Czech Republic and Slovakia: Prior to the end of WWI, Czech and Slovak lands were part of the Austrian Empire. The Czech Republic existed as the western half of Czechoslovakia from the end of WWI at its creation until 1993. During WWII, portions of Czechoslovakia with large German minorities were obtained by Germany through concessions from France and the UK as well as through German invasion. Around the same time during WWII, Slovakia declared independence and became a client state of Germany. Czechoslovakia was reunited following WWII and most Germans were forced to leave. In 1946, elections were held, but communist elements backed by the Soviet Union quickly gained prominence and took power in 1948. Throughout the 1960s, internal pressure for change and Slovak demands for greater independence resulted in a series of economic and social reforms that angered the Soviet Union. Warsaw Pact forces invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968 and replaced the reformers with new leadership. The 1970s and 1980s saw a period of Soviet conservatism with little active resistance. This period of conservatism ended in 1989 with broad popular demands for reform and the eventual collapse of communism in Czechoslovakia in 1990, when the first free elections were held since those in 1946. In 1991, Czechoslovakia abandoned the Warsaw Pact and immediately thereafter in 1992, Slovaks pressured for autonomy, culminating in the split which formed the current Czech Republic and Slovakia. The Czech Republic and Slovakia both were members of the Central European Free Trade Agreement as a preliminary agreement to formal acceptance into the European Union, which both countries are now part. The Czech Republic joined NATO in 1999 and Slovakia followed in 2004. Both countries are required by treaty to eventually accept the Euro as national currency.

    Hungary: At the end of the World War I, the Austro-Hungarian Empire was defeated and Hungary was split into its own nation. During World War II, Hungary sided with Germany until 1944, where it unsuccessfully attempted to switch sides and was consequently occupied by German forces. Following WW II, Hungary was supported by a provisional government of American, British, and Soviet representatives. In 1945, the provisional government was replaced by a national government, which itself was soon undermined by communist elements with Soviet backing. Major industries, banking, and natural resources were nationalized and by 1949, Hungary was under a communist dictatorship with all opposition parties forced to join the Hungarian Worker’s Party. In 1953, Hungary joined the Warsaw Pact. That same year, serious economic difficulties arose from forced nationalization and collectivization. National leadership attempted a brief and unsuccessful attempt at reform which was quickly disrupted by hard-core Soviet-stylized conservatives. However, the desire for reform was not to be underestimated and revolution broke out in 1956. Liberal leadership attempted to reinstate economic and social reforms, and withdrew from the Warsaw Pact. The Soviet Union responded with a massive invasion and subsequent reinstatement of Communist dictatorship. The liberal leadership was executed and roughly 200,000 Hungarians fled the country. In the 1960s, the communist government began to very slowly implement economic and social reform which contributed to 20 years of reasonable political quiet in Hungary. In the mid to late 1980s, reform efforts stepped up in intensity, culminating in a gradual transition to democracy in 1989 and the Soviet Union agreeing to withdraw its forces by 1991. Hungary was admitted to NATO in 1999 and the European Union in 2004. Hungary is required by treaty to eventually adopt the Euro as its currency.

    Slovenia: Following World War I, Slovenia was the very northern republic united under what is now the former Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia fell to Germany and its allies during World War II and succumbed to communism shortly thereafter. During the Yugoslav era of communism, Slovenia thrived under its own liberal policies. Finally, in 1990, Slovenia declared independence from Yugoslavia. As an emerging democracy, the leaders of Slovenia pursued further economic and social liberalization. Slovenia became a member of NATO and the European Union in 2004 and is expected to adopt the Euro as its currency in 2007, making it the first of the eastern European regional EU members to do so. (U.S. Department of State, http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3407.htm)

    Croatia: Croatia was one of the several countries to unite within Yugoslavia after World War I. Croatia was held under communist Yugoslavia without great incident until after the death of Marshall Tito, when Yugoslavia began to break apart. Croatia declared its independence in 1991, and conflicts between ethnic Serbs and Croats quickly escalated into civil war. A series of cease-fires and corresponding resumptions of hostilities took place until 1995, where Croatia committed itself to a lasting peace with the Dayton Peace Accords. Not long after, Croatia progressed through regional cooperation, democratization, and other various national reconciliation efforts. Currently, the leadership of Croatia has dedicated itself to accession to the EU and NATO. To further these aims of stability and economic prosperity, Croatia is a member of the Stability Pact for Southeastern Europe, a member of CEFTA, and in negotiations for EU membership.

    Bosnia and Herzegovina: The relations of the people of Bosnia and Herzegovina deserve a brief explanation prior to World War I, as it directly relates to modern challenges. Ottoman Turks controlled Bosnia from 1463 to 1878, and during this time many Christians converted to Islam. These religious influences play a large part in the conflicts today. Bosnia became a colony of the Austro-Hungarian Empire until the end of World War I, and it was Bosnia where the sparks of World War I were lit with the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand by a Serb nationalist who supported a southern Slav state. After World War I, Bosnia became part of Yugoslavia which fell to communism after World War II. Slobodan Milosevic’s rise to prominence in 1986 accelerated the break up of Yugoslavia along ethnic lines. Bosnia declared independence in 1992, though opposed by Bosnian Serbs. Serbia and Bosnian Serbs engaged in a violent offensive in an attempt to include eastern Bosnia as a component of a greater ethnically defined Serbia. During this same time, Bosnian Muslims and Croats also sought independence from Bosnia. Just prior to the Dayton Peace accords in 1995, Muslims and Croats agreed to a unified federal government of Bosnia and Herzegovina. The Dayton Peace Accords created a two-tiered government comprised of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Republica Srpska, both being divided primarily along the ethnic religious lines of Croats & Muslim Bosniaks and Christian Serbs. Bosnia and Herzegovina is a member of the Stability pact for Southeastern Europe and a prospective member for the Central European Free Trade Agreement (CEFTA). European Union peacekeeping troops are currently deployed to Bosnia and Herzegovina to prevent renewed hostilities. (U.S. Department of State, http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2868.htm)

    Serbia and Montenegro: Following World War II, the formation of Yugoslavia saw Serbia as the dominant partner in the alliance of various ethnicities and religions under one banner. A large contributing factor towards the success of this unity was the protection of smaller republics under Serbian leadership. Following World War II, Serbia played the leading role within communist Yugoslavia. During the break up which began in the 1980s, Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic sought to exercise greater control over provinces which previously enjoyed greater autonomy. In 1999, NATO exacted an air campaign over Serbia in response to Slobodan Milosevic violent acts against ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. Milosevic eventually ceased his actions and NATO forces moved in to Kosovo as a peacekeeping and security force. After Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Macedonia announced independence for their respective states, Serbia and Montenegro became the successor to the Yugoslav state as the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The name was changed in 2003 to Serbia and Montenegro by Constitutional Charter. A provision of this charter allowed for the secession of Montenegro in 2006, which occurred in June of 2006. Both Serbia and Montenegro are members of the Stability Pact for Southeastern Europe and are prospective members for CEFTA. (U.S. Department of State, http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5388.htm)

    Albania: Albania’s independence was established following World War I after hundreds of years of rule by the Ottoman Empire. Albania was occupied by Axis powers during World War II, and after the war, suffered under the brutal isolated communist regime of Enver Hoxha for several decades. In 1991, after the general fall of communism in Europe and six years after the death of Enver Hoxha, Albanian leaders sought democratization and closer ties to the West. Multi-party democracy and the liberalization of economic policy preceded the elections of the Albanian Democratic Party and more sweeping reforms. Unfortunately, Albania almost immediately suffered under a series of fraudulent investment schemes that resulted in armed revolts that nearly overtook the fragile emerging democratic government. The United Nations sent in a multinational Protection Force to help restore order, and the Democratic Party was replaced by more socialist elements. Since 1997, Albania has progressed slowly and suffered many setbacks due to political infighting. The Democratic Party was returned to power in 2005 on an anti-crime and anti-corruption ticket. Albania is a member of the Stability Pact for Southeastern Europe and is a prospective member for CEFTA. (U.S. Department of State, http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3235.htm)


    Macedonia: Prior to World War I, the territory of Macedonia fell under Turkish rule in the Ottoman Empire. After World War I, the territory was divided amongst Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, Greece, and Bulgaria. After World War II, the territory of modern day Macedonia was established as a republic within communist Yugoslavia. When communism fell throughout Eastern Europe in 1991, Macedonia joined its Yugoslavian contemporaries in declaring independence. Macedonian managed to avoid ethnic conflicts until 2000, when Ethnic Albanians near Kosovo seized land and attacked government forces. The fighting ended in 2001 with the implementation of greater civil rights for ethnic Albanians as broker by international mediators. Macedonia continues to make strides towards greater relations with regional and European partners, though not without challenges. Macedonia is a member of CEFTA, a member of the Stability Pact, and a candidate for the European Union.
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

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  18. #18
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?! Aren't you an MP?


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
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  19. #19
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    Historical scenario
    I was reading last night about a group in a refugee area who were supplied with enough weapons from outside groups to successfully resist deportation by attacking from rooftops, cellars and attics. In trying to remove them, 20 government soldiers were killed. The government responded with attacks by tanks and artillery, versus the refugees armed with smuggled in pistols, rifles, a few machine guns, grenades and Molotov cocktails. The first attack was repulsed, leaving another 12 government soldiers dead. The soldiers found it very difficult to kill or capture the small battle groups, who would fight, then retreat through a maze of cellars, sewers and other hidden passageways to escape capture, disappearing into the noncombatant areas. Air strikes were ordered, setting apartment buildings from which resistance occurred on fire, in an effort to kill those hiding among the noncombatants (who were almost certainly aware of their presence and may have in fact assisted them.) But of course this is all justified, as a necessary government response to the attacks.
    So was the government justified ?
    Sounds a lot like what happened in the Warsaw Ghetto.

    I think the whole idea of justification is very difficult as well as very individual depending on one´s views.
    If you could ask a deer whether it was justified to shoot deer so a hunter can make a living, what might the deer respond?
    Usually justification is explained by needs, aims and values of a person or group, but another group has a very different view.
    The one who has the losses will almost never say it´s justified, the one who wins will often say. The stronger makes the rules usually. And the stronger also dictates what is justified and what is not, who could oppose his views?


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  20. #20

    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?! Aren't you an MP?
    Read my Orgah "Summation".

    I also have an undergraduate degree in Management and am currently pursuing a Master of Business Administration in International Business.

    As soon as I finish, I plan on pursuing a secondary career as a Business Instructor.

    (I'll only be a Marine for another 2 weeks. Then I'll be a firefighter.)
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The Backroom is the Crackroom.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Random scenario

    The stronger makes the rules usually. And the stronger also dictates what is justified and what is not.
    Thats the smartest thing I have read here in a while.

  22. #22
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Somebody Else
    The civilians who are passively, if not actively aiding the terrorists? If they do, how do you know the terrorists haven't left with them?
    Almost better. You can then take out the stash and equipment unopposed. Monitor the area to prevent any quick re-establishments in the area and identify all that has left the area. Destroy all secret passages and notice thier exits.
    Try then to continue the pressure on the group. If you can keep this up it will cripple the organisation as it will constantly loose equipment and people that shows up on several places will either be very unlucky or members. And learning thier secret retreat habits can be useful...

    Striking the headquaters will often wond them, possibly cripple them for a while, but you're damn lucky if you can take out the head of the beast in one strike this way. They're usually prepared for that situation.
    Last edited by Ironside; 07-21-2006 at 21:22.
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  23. #23
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    And if the civvies refuse to leave?

    Plus, as far as I know, stockpiling all equipment in one place is rather foolish, compared to having multiple hidden caches. I would assume anyone who's capable of organising a terrorist group will have at least that amount of sense...
    Don't have any aspirations - they're doomed to fail.

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  24. #24
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somebody Else
    And if the civvies refuse to leave?
    That´s human stupidity, according to Darwin only the strong or those who can adapt will survive, well, they obviously can´t adapt...


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  25. #25
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar
    That´s human stupidity, according to Darwin only the strong or those who can adapt will survive, well, they obviously can´t adapt...
    Well... the Israelis are dropping leaflets saying exactly that. Carte blanche then, huh?
    Don't have any aspirations - they're doomed to fail.

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  26. #26
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    To the original scenario:
    Bomb the tower into smithereens when most of the enemy are in it.

    So was the government justified ?
    No, the Nazis weren't. Context counts.

    Crazed Rabbit
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

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  27. #27
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Somebody Else
    And if the civvies refuse to leave?

    Plus, as far as I know, stockpiling all equipment in one place is rather foolish, compared to having multiple hidden caches. I would assume anyone who's capable of organising a terrorist group will have at least that amount of sense...
    Well you are cutting of thier food supplies... So simply wait and take your time to check for any secret exits. Offer to deploy troops inside to prevent looting, but make it known that they'll withdraw if attacked... And withdraw them if it happens.

    As I said, you can only be really effective if you constantly take out thier bases and stashes. Or is doing an extremly good operation (that would require insane amounts of very good intel though, and strikes agaisnt several places at once).

    Quote Originally Posted by Somebody Else
    Well... the Israelis are dropping leaflets saying exactly that. Carte blanche then, huh?
    Airstrikes are quite different compared to sieging an area.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  28. #28
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside
    Well you are cutting of thier food supplies... So simply wait and take your time to check for any secret exits. Offer to deploy troops inside to prevent looting, but make it known that they'll withdraw if attacked... And withdraw them if it happens.

    As I said, you can only be really effective if you constantly take out thier bases and stashes. Or is doing an extremly good operation (that would require insane amounts of very good intel though, and strikes agaisnt several places at once).
    And if other locations are identified as similar terrorist hideouts? Rather manpower intensive, no? Plus, time is not often something that people have - we have a results driven world...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside
    Airstrikes are quite different compared to sieging an area.
    Sieges nowadays are fairly different to how they used to be. Cutting off supplies and resticting movement used to require encirclement by ground troops. These days, we can bomb bridges, convoys, power stations etc. to achieve the same effect, but without putting soldiers at risk - quite an attractive option, given decreasing front-line troop numbers...
    Don't have any aspirations - they're doomed to fail.

    Rumours...

  29. #29

    Default Re: Random scenario

    No, the Nazis weren't. Context counts.

    Well said Rabbit , so how does that balance with some of the comments here like........
    The stronger makes the rules usually. And the stronger also dictates what is justified and what is not
    At that time in that place they were the strongest weren't they , so their rules are OK .

  30. #30
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random scenario

    Now, what if the civilians in the area secretly support the bad guys and stay in the area because they know that the government cannot shoot while they are there?
    They can simply be afraid and claim this or that, but they will stay there only to "guard" the bad guys. The governement and media cannot read their minds, so what should be done? How can anyone know?

    What will PETA do if they hide behind furry sheep?

    and last but not least: What would Jesus do?


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