Terrorists or .... partizans

[KrooK]

I wonder what are US opponents called in your country.

Iraq;
In Poland they are being called terrorists but many people called them partisans. In my opinion we can't called them terrorists. They have official commanders, structure and objectives. They are being controlled by one HQ and listen to the orders.

Lebanon
Hardly one call members of Hezbollah terrorists. They are being called "bojownicy" - not terrorist, not official army. Something very similar to partisans but a bit worse organised.

Czeczenia
Similar to Lebanon. But now their HQ is worse so they have probably problems with coordination.

I wonder how are that people described into your country.

To explain situation I would like to add that by calling someone partisan we mean "man who fights for freedom and he is absolutely right" by "bojownik" - "man who is fighting for his objectives, we accept his objective but rather don't accept his methods".

[drone]

I wonder what are US opponents called in your country.

Here in the US, they are called "Democrats"! Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week.

If they target military and government infrastructure, they are partisans. If they target civilians, they are terrorists.

[Vladimir]

If they target the military and *snip* the government's ability to wage war, they are partisans. If they target civilians, they are terrorists.

That's why Hezabobo are terrorists. The fact that they also pick on the military is irrelevant, their primary targets are civilians. If Israel and the US used the same tactics there would be none left standing and they would be the terrorists. You can't include civilian casualties as a result of military action as terrorism; if you do, the invasion of Normandy would be a terrorist attack.

[spmetla]

I think Hezbollah could be described as "paramilitary terrorists". They are organized and trained but not really a local militia. Because they target civilians for the most part they would be terrorists.

In Iraq it's a lot of different groups. There are local militias fighting against the goverment for local control. There are foreign insurgents fighting. Some only target Americans, others only target Iraqi security forces while others target everything that isn't in their organization.

[Dâriûsh]

That's why Hezabobo are terrorists. The fact that they also pick on the military is irrelevant, their primary targets are civilians. If Israel and the US used the same tactics there would be none left standing and they would be the terrorists. You can't include civilian casualties as a result of military action as terrorism; if you do, the invasion of Normandy would be a terrorist attack.

Hizbullah’s armed wing is indeed guilty of indiscriminate bombardments in Northern Israel, just as the IDF is guilty of indiscriminate bombardments in Lebanon (as well as Gaza and the West Bank). But I disagree with the claim that their main target is civilians. The main struggle of the Hizbullah is against the continued Israeli occupation of Lebanon (the infamous Shebaa Farms). However, whether Hizbullah is directly involved in terrorism inside Israel is, in my opinion, disputable. They do however praise various acts of Palestinian terrorism. Apparently the enemy of their enemy is their friend.

But if Hizbullah disarmed the armed wing (TIR) and denounced terrorism against Israeli civilians, they might nearly get sympathy from me.

[PanzerJaeger]

The main struggle of the Hizbullah is against the continued Israeli occupation of Lebanon (the infamous Shebaa Farms).

The main struggle of Hezbolla is the destruction of the Jewish state. Lebanon is just a staging ground.

[Divinus Arma]

Hizbullah’s armed wing is indeed guilty of indiscriminate bombardments in Northern Israel, just as the IDF is guilty of indiscriminate bombardments in Lebanon (as well as Gaza and the West Bank). But I disagree with the claim that their main target is civilians. The main struggle of the Hizbullah is against the continued Israeli occupation of Lebanon (the infamous Shebaa Farms). However, whether Hizbullah is directly involved in terrorism inside Israel is, in my opinion, disputable. They do however praise various acts of Palestinian terrorism. Apparently the enemy of their enemy is their friend.

But if Hizbullah disarmed the armed wing (TIR) and denounced terrorism against Israeli civilians, they might nearly get sympathy from me.

Well the last part of your comment is shared by most, including me.

As for your first portion, would you define the cross border incursion into Israel by Hizzbullah guerillas as being against the "occupation"? The incursion and kidnapping started this fiasco.

How about purposeful targetting of civilian areas with their rockets, such as in Haifa?

Israel is targetting Hizzbullah leadership and their membership. While civilians casualties are despised by all remember: HIZBULLAH HIDES BEHIND CIVILIANS SO THAT ISRAEL HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO CAUSE CIVILIAN DEATHS. Alternatively, Israel is out in the open. Ready to engage and be enagaged. Your "brave warriors" use women and children as their shield and rockets against israeli children as their sword. Real heros.

Hizzbullah is a terrorist organization. Period.

[Dâriûsh]

As for your first portion, would you define the cross border incursion into Israel by Hizzbullah guerillas as being against the "occupation"? The incursion and kidnapping started this fiasco.

Remember, in their opinion, as long as parts of Lebanon are occupied, Hizbullah is still at war with Israel. That this incident occurred on the border rather than, like last time, on the Golan Heights is unessential. Hizbullah has conducted numerous raids across the border since the Israeli general withdrawal. Israel has also captured many Hizbullah militiamen. In my opinion, they shouldn’t venture into Israel at all.

How about purposeful targetting of civilian areas with their rockets, such as in Haifa?

Detestable indeed. That would be the indiscriminate bombardments I mentioned.

Israel is targetting Hizzbullah leadership and their membership. While civilians casualties are despised by all remember: HIZBULLAH HIDES BEHIND CIVILIANS SO THAT ISRAEL HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO CAUSE CIVILIAN DEATHS.

No choice eh? Hizbullah is hiding behind civilians, so that is why roads, bridges, residential areas, and Beirut airport had to be bombed? Israel is terrorizing the Lebanese populace. Period.

Alternatively, Israel is out in the open. Ready to engage and be enagaged. Your "brave warriors" use women and children as their shield and rockets against israeli children as their sword. Real heros.

Tanks, aircraft, smart bombs, warships, and some of the most highly trained combat troops in the world versus unskilled militiamen. A massacre. But you are quite right, Hizbullah’s armed wing should never have retaliated with terror against the Israeli terror-bombardments in Lebanon. In fact, Hizbullah’s armed wing should be disarmed and disbanded. Preferably sooner rather than later.

And I’d love to tell you into which body opening you can insert the “your brave warriors” comment.

Hizzbullah is a terrorist organization. Period.

Until they disband the armed wing, I’m inclined to agree.

[Vladimir]

Hizbullah’s armed wing is indeed guilty of indiscriminate bombardments in Northern Israel, just as the IDF is guilty of indiscriminate bombardments in Lebanon (as well as Gaza and the West Bank). But I disagree with the claim that their main target is civilians. The main struggle of the Hizbullah is against the continued Israeli occupation of Lebanon (the infamous Shebaa Farms). However, whether Hizbullah is directly involved in terrorism inside Israel is, in my opinion, disputable. They do however praise various acts of Palestinian terrorism. Apparently the enemy of their enemy is their friend.

Ok, it's nothing against you personally but you are wrong on Hizbullah's "struggle". You don't fire hundreds of rockets at major cities because you feel that someone else has control of uncle Ackbar's farm that has been "in the family for XXXX generations.”

Indiscriminate bombings? You can't back that up. Even if you site their bombing of open areas in Gaza you'll find they targeted these areas intentionally, not indiscriminately. Do you really think they're just firing randomly at targets?

It seems to me they are highly discriminatory in selecting their targets. The airfield, the port, the road from Syria, are all chosen with the intent to cut off the enemy's supplies. Israel recently withdrew from southern Lebanon and now because of Hizbullah, they may reoccupy it. It seems that if Hizbullah was fighting against occupation that it backfired.

Do you have any explanation why there haven't been hundreds of rocket attacks against Damascus because of Syria's continued meddling in Lebanon?

[Dâriûsh]

Ok, it's nothing against you personally but you are wrong on Hizbullah's "struggle". You don't fire hundreds of rockets at major cities because you feel that someone else has control of uncle Ackbar's farm that has been "in the family for XXXX generations.”

You’ll have to discuss that with Hassan Nasrallah.

Indiscriminate bombings? You can't back that up. Even if you site their bombing of open areas in Gaza you'll find they targeted these areas intentionally, not indiscriminately. Do you really think they're just firing randomly at targets?

It seems to me they are highly discriminatory in selecting their targets. The airfield, the port, the road from Syria, are all chosen with the intent to cut off the enemy's supplies.

The point is that the areas with the bad guys are usually full of innocent people. The same goes for bridges, airfields, ports, and roads used by people who are trying to get away from the conflict as fast as they can.

Israel recently withdrew from southern Lebanon and now because of Hizbullah, they may reoccupy it. It seems that if Hizbullah was fighting against occupation that it backfired.

In a way, I guess. Hizbullah is very fond of the Golan Heights, and they are irked by the presence of the Shebaa Farms and IDF occupation troops. To them the occupation doesn’t end until the Golan Heights are returned to Lebanon.

Do you have any explanation why there haven't been hundreds of rocket attacks against Damascus because of Syria's continued meddling in Lebanon?

I could think of plenty. But perhaps because the other militias disarmed and disbanded after the civil war? The anti-Syrian factions included. Besides, keeping Hama in mind, Syrian retaliation isn’t exactly known for being humane.

[x-dANGEr]

That's why Hezabobo are terrorists. The fact that they also pick on the military is irrelevant, their primary targets are civilians. If Israel and the US used the same tactics there would be none left standing and they would be the terrorists. You can't include civilian casualties as a result of military action as terrorism; if you do, the invasion of Normandy would be a terrorist attack.

Wrong. Hezbullah in the last interview with Al-Jazeera clearly stated his intention of trying to avoid "civilian" targets as much as possible, and he even apologized to a family who's two young boys got killed by a rocket while they were playing.. Of course, with the technology he has (Which is no where neat to Israel's), it is almost vital for that 'non-intended' damage to happen..

[Banquo's Ghost]

Wrong. Hezbullah in the last interview with Al-Jazeera clearly stated his intention of trying to avoid "civilian" targets as much as possible, and he even apologized to a family who's two young boys got killed by a rocket while they were playing.. Of course, with the technology he has (Which is no where neat to Israel's), it is almost vital for that 'non-intended' damage to happen..

With respect, that is appalling sophistry, no better than the Israeli apologists who line up to 'regret collateral damage'.

Hezbollah fires Katyusha rockets in their dozens at cities in Israel. The Katyusha is not a precision missile, as you acknowledge. Its use against cities (as opposed to large troop formations) is an indiscriminate and deliberate attempt to kill and terrorise civilians.

Precisely what the Israelis are trying to do to the population of Lebanon. However, because Hezbollah units also hide amongst civilian homes when it suits them, they provide the IDF with an excuse for shelling ordinary people.

The sooner both your side and the Israelis stop lying to yourselves and the world about the effects of your barbarity, the sooner this bloodshed might end. Every single person dying is a real human being who had hopes and dreams just like you or I - sod what their passport looks like.

[x-dANGEr]

Ghost, at all costs, Hezbullah primary targets are military.. I see more Israeli military dead than Hezbullah ones, why? Israel has a better ability to target it's missiles and believe me, hitting the bridges, electricity stations, gas stations, etc.. isn't killing Hezbullah soldiers. I think Hezbullah now is just launching missiles for the heck of it.. Why? It all started liked this: Hezbullah captured the 2 soldiers, and asked for a trade for many other Lebanese captives (He actually said Arabs (Nasrullah), no matter what religion, be that christians, muslims, etc..), Israel attacked, but attacked what? The airport, some gas stations and mainly killed only civilians.. Now to your thought, what would the proper Hezbullah re-action be? Try to aim his Katyushas on the Israeli F16's? For your info also, he did bomb the northern air-force Israeli HQ, and a lot of Israeli Artillery sites..

[Redleg]

With respect, that is appalling sophistry, no better than the Israeli apologists who line up to 'regret collateral damage'.

Hezbollah fires Katyusha rockets in their dozens at cities in Israel. The Katyusha is not a precision missile, as you acknowledge. Its use against cities (as opposed to large troop formations) is an indiscriminate and deliberate attempt to kill and terrorise civilians.

Precisely what the Israelis are trying to do to the population of Lebanon. However, because Hezbollah units also hide amongst civilian homes when it suits them, they provide the IDF with an excuse for shelling ordinary people.

The sooner both your side and the Israelis stop lying to yourselves and the world about the effects of your barbarity, the sooner this bloodshed might end. Every single person dying is a real human being who had hopes and dreams just like you or I - sod what their passport looks like.

I agree completely with this statement. You sir are correct in my opinion, especially the bolded sentence.

[Divinus Arma]

The enemy of Iraq who fights against the Iraqi government aided by the U.S. are collectively called Insurgents. An Insurgent fights against the established government similar to a rebellion, with the difference being that a rebellion is far more organized with clear objectives following the end of conflict.

Those who use unconventional tactics against civilians in order to inflict horror and fear to sway opinion are called terrorists.

[cegorach]

I wonder what are US opponents called in your country.

Iraq;
In Poland they are being called terrorists but many people called them partisans. In my opinion we can't called them terrorists. They have official commanders, structure and objectives. They are being controlled by one HQ and listen to the orders.

Lebanon
Hardly one call members of Hezbollah terrorists. They are being called "bojownicy" - not terrorist, not official army. Something very similar to partisans but a bit worse organised.

Czeczenia
Similar to Lebanon. But now their HQ is worse so they have probably problems with coordination.

I wonder how are that people described into your country.

To explain situation I would like to add that by calling someone partisan we mean "man who fights for freedom and he is absolutely right" by "bojownik" - "man who is fighting for his objectives, we accept his objective but rather don't accept his methods".

Insurgent in English is the right term. In Polish - partyzanci for those Iraquis - please do not joke - in Polish the term partizans is reserved for real guerillas not the guys who are blowing up mosques and people in queues.
Are they controlled by one HQ - I doubt it - the people have various origin from disgusting jihad 'no matter the cost' fanatics, Baasists to those who are close to guerillas, but the problem is how to use the term especially with high participation in the last elections.

In Chechenya - it is much easier - situation is uncomparable to Iraq and people are given little choice, survival is almost an art itself.


Cegorach