Terrorists or .... partizans

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Or Davids.

I've sometimes thought this myself. Isreal's first response in the first instance is violence.

[cegorach]

Cegorach polish brother - speak for yourself :)
In my opinion some parts of Iraq resistance might be called partisans.
In Lebanon Israel behaves like terrorists. There is no difference.


===========> Oh, there is unless you are assuming that they want to destroy Lebanon and kill as many civilians as possible - you cannot ignore missiles launched on your teritory after all, the question how to achieve it is a different one.

I will tell my opinion. This country don't fight for it's existence. They want more and more ground because they got kind of phobia. It's holocaust fobia.
After holocaust Jews still can't understand why so many Jews died so easy.
So that they are still afraid that holocaust might be repeated.
Thats why they want destroy everyone who got other minds than Jews.
As for now it works great but....
when Israel lost his 1st war it will be end of that country. And no one will be crying over it.

Yes, Jews the imperialist scum...

You do forget that they already retreated from the territories they took and that literally EVERY war was in defence of Israel and for Israel's survival.
The fact that Arab states cannot defeat them is their problem.
I wonder what would happen without Israel here ?
It is quite simple the fighting will continue this time Sunni vs. Shia with some christian factor as well. Middle East has been very violate region for much of its history anyway.
And who would weep - we and Jew share common history and the world would be much darker place without their imput if you ask me.

[x-dANGEr]

Cegorach:

It is quite simple the fighting will continue this time Sunni vs. Shia with some christian factor as well. Middle East has been very violate region for much of its history anyway.

Most of the violation always came from over seas .. Or, from over the sea

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Yes, Jews the imperialist scum...

You do forget that they already retreated from the territories they took and that literally EVERY war was in defence of Israel and for Israel's survival.
The fact that Arab states cannot defeat them is their problem.
I wonder what would happen without Israel here ?
It is quite simple the fighting will continue this time Sunni vs. Shia with some christian factor as well. Middle East has been very violate region for much of its history anyway.
And who would weep - we and Jew share common history and the world would be much darker place without their imput if you ask me.

They haven't fully withdrawn from the West Bank and it wasn't popular.

Have you noticed how in every war Isreal takes more land?

This whole thing might just be an excuse to start another war and take back what they just gave up. Then the Right wing lot in Isreal can turn around and say, "Look what happenes when we're nice!"

Common history with the Jews? You mean lots of them used to live in Europe? Well absolutely, and I suppose the Crusades do not represent common history between Christianity and Islam.

The world really would be a darker place without that interaction.

[x-dANGEr]

The world would be a really lighter place if the Mongols hadn't attacked Baghdad.. Or in better words, hadn't thrown the books of it's great library in Al-Furat.. It is said that that incident had brought techonology back 1000 years, but I think that is so over it, so 500 would be a better guess.. (When that incident is described, you'd see the line : "The river turned black from the ink..")

[Redleg]

With respect, that is appalling sophistry, no better than the Israeli apologists who line up to 'regret collateral damage'.

Hezbollah fires Katyusha rockets in their dozens at cities in Israel. The Katyusha is not a precision missile, as you acknowledge. Its use against cities (as opposed to large troop formations) is an indiscriminate and deliberate attempt to kill and terrorise civilians.

Precisely what the Israelis are trying to do to the population of Lebanon. However, because Hezbollah units also hide amongst civilian homes when it suits them, they provide the IDF with an excuse for shelling ordinary people.

The sooner both your side and the Israelis stop lying to yourselves and the world about the effects of your barbarity, the sooner this bloodshed might end. Every single person dying is a real human being who had hopes and dreams just like you or I - sod what their passport looks like.

I agree completely with this statement. You sir are correct in my opinion, especially the bolded sentence.

[Avicenna]

Infidels!

Truth be told, I don't think many people know about the situation in the Middle East, or at least they don't discuss it with me.

[x-dANGEr]

@Ghost: Hezbullah firing missiles into civilian areas is probably the only think he can do to retalitate.. And give the message to the Israeli army to back off.

[Banquo's Ghost]

@Ghost: Hezbullah firing missiles into civilian areas is probably the only think he can do to retalitate.. And give the message to the Israeli army to back off.

And that has worked so well hasn't it? I guess the IDF is backing off by way of the scenic route then?

If that's all they can think of, they are remarkably stupid. I have said before, the way forward for the Palestinian people is peaceful, non-violent protest. Accept the state of Israel, and show they can be trusted to be peaceable.

Protest injustice with peaceful marches, hunger strikes, symbolic acts of refusal. Occupy settler sites both proposed and current with hundreds or thousands of people peacefully sitting on the land they claim as theirs. Yes, some will be killed, martyred if you like, but not as many as now, and with far more effect than the nameless casualty lists now weighing down the world's news sites.

Israel may continue violence, but faced with peaceful responses of dignity and power, they would rapidly be shown up as bullies and overlords. The US would be shamed into pressing moderation. Most importantly, ordinary people could choose to participate or not, a choice the militants deny them through violence.

Use your powerlessness to greatest effect through peace. In sixty years, trying to match Israel for violence has resulted only in misery and destruction.

Hezbollah cannot win by force. Ever. So stop it. Now.

[Ser Clegane]

Protest injustice with peaceful marches, hunger strikes, symbolic acts of refusal. Occupy settler sites both proposed and current with hundreds or thousands of people peacefully sitting on the land they claim as theirs. Yes, some will be killed, martyred if you like, but not as many as now, and with far more effect than the nameless casualty lists now weighing down the world's news sites.

Israel may continue violence, but faced with peaceful responses of dignity and power, they would rapidly be shown up as bullies and overlords. The US would be shamed into pressing moderation. Most importantly, ordinary people could choose to participate or not, a choice the militants deny them through violence.

Use your powerlessness to greatest effect through peace. In sixty years, trying to match Israel for violence has resulted only in misery and destruction.

Absolutely correct - you only can successfully and credibly claim the moral highground if you completely refrain from violence.
The "Indian way" would be the way to go here - unfortunately after decades of violence the respective leaders managed to plant the hate and mistrust so deeply in the population that I fear that it would be too difficult to find a strong and charismatic leader that could break the circle of violence - especially if there are powers that seem more interested in keeping the conflict alive than in a peaceful co-existance of Israelis and Palestinians

[Dâriûsh]

On Aljazeera, Mahmoud Komati one of the senior kingpins of Hizbullah decried the Israeli aggression. Apparently the massive bombardment and invasion was unexpected. He almost makes it sound as if an old business partner ripped him off.

[Fragony]

On Aljazeera, Mahmoud Komati one of the senior kingpins of Hizbullah decried the Israeli aggression. Apparently the massive bombardment and invasion was unexpected. He almost makes it sound as if an old business partner ripped him off.

I doubt it, a weaker Hezbollah is a lot more dangerous then a strong one and they know it. What is Israel going to do, kill all the Shi'ites?

[macsen rufus]

Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
Protest injustice with peaceful marches, hunger strikes, symbolic acts of refusal. Occupy settler sites both proposed and current with hundreds or thousands of people peacefully sitting on the land they claim as theirs. Yes, some will be killed, martyred if you like, but not as many as now, and with far more effect than the nameless casualty lists now weighing down the world's news sites.

Very true -- martyrs earn much more kudos if they are not aggressive themselves. A peaceful protestor killed by a bulldozer a couple of years ago struck a very powerful chord worldwide, and earned more sympathy for the plight of Palestinians' suffering than a suicide bombing would have done. There is a huge moral difference between self-sacrifice and sacrifice of others. Non-violent action acts like judo, turning the aggressor's own force against him.

"There is no road to peace - peace is the road" as Gandhi said.

Constant retaliation results in a vicious cycle of decline, creating ever more aggrieved victims. The only way to halt it is for someone, anyone, to NOT RETALIATE. It may be hard, very hard, to restrain that base instinct, but think how much harder it becomes after each new retaliation. As another saying goes "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind".

[x-dANGEr]

Ghost, first of all don't mix between the matter we are talking about (Hezbullah) and Palestine.. Then, I'd like to express my agreement on the second part of your post.. Though, as good as that is, as hard it is to find such leaders..

And that has worked so well hasn't it? I guess the IDF is backing off by way of the scenic route then?

I think it did.. Protests in Israel are going on now, Israel is losing the war (They death ratio between them and their enemy's army is like 7:1), Israel re-thinking it's plans and mayve eventually trading the prisoners.

Oh, and you guys are mixing things up.. None of Hezbullah's mottos is the destruction of Israel.. In fact, his only main motto is to regain Shaba' farms and free the captives..

[Redleg]

Oh, and you guys are mixing things up.. None of Hezbullah's mottos is the destruction of Israel.. In fact, his only main motto is to regain Shaba' farms and free the captives..

THere are some things that I just find need to be disproved..

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34003

The political platform of Hezbollah calls for the destruction of Israel, but the group has successfully transformed itself from a radical extremist group into an effective political force which holds 18 percent of the seats in the Lebanese Parliament.

http://beliefnet.com/story/195/story_19577_2.html

Also like Hamas, Hezbollah has pursued a political and religious agenda that centers on the destruction of Israel and opposition to the United States and has been carried out through terrorism against Israeli and Western targets.

Like Hamas, Hezbollah’s official rhetoric calls for the destruction of Israel and its replacement with an Islamist Palestinian government.

http://www.tau.ac.il/jcss/haaretz160804_en.html

Sobelman studied Hezbollah activities over the past four years and concluded that the Shi'ite organization actually wants to preserve the status quo created in the north after the IDF's departure from Lebanon. He found a clear contradiction between Hezbollah's declared ideology, which calls for the destruction of Israel, and the restrained policy that it actually implements, which is based on rules of behavior that have crystalized between it and Israel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1908671.stm

Hezbollah's political rhetoric has centred on calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Its definition of Israeli occupation has also encompassed the idea that the whole of Palestine is occupied Muslim land and it has argued that Israel has no right to exist.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Ghost, first of all don't mix between the matter we are talking about (Hezbullah) and Palestine.. Then, I'd like to express my agreement on the second part of your post.. Though, as good as that is, as hard it is to find such leaders..

I concede your point, in that Hezbollah are primarily a Lebanese organisation rather than Palestinian. The point holds for both, however.

I think it did.. Protests in Israel are going on now, Israel is losing the war (They death ratio between them and their enemy's army is like 7:1), Israel re-thinking it's plans and mayve eventually trading the prisoners.

I agree with you that Israel may well lose this war, not militarily, but politically because of its utterly inappropriate over-reaction. However this article shows that they are currently as bullish as ever, claiming that the failure of the international summit to condemn them is actually a full-on permission to keep going.

Oh, and you guys are mixing things up.. None of Hezbullah's mottos is the destruction of Israel.. In fact, his only main motto is to regain Shaba' farms and free the captives..

Nonsense. Hezbollah are backed by Iran, and follow their lead. I refer you to this source (which no doubt you will dismiss as biased).

The party's rhetoric calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. It regards the whole of Palestine as occupied Muslim land and it argues that Israel has no right to exist.

And this is the hate-filled looney that leads them. Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah.

EDIT: Talking of dangerous nutters, here's some love from the Israeli Justice Minister Ramon:

He added that Israel had given the civilians of southern Lebanon ample time to quit the area and therefore anyone still remaining there could be considered a Hezbollah supporter.

"All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah," Mr Ramon said.

[Banquo's Ghost]

My first double post! Sorry, but ten minutes to post looks like a crash.

[Geoffrey S]

Lebanon right now seems to be fighting the PR war better than Israel, or better than the Palestinians ever managed to do. I hope that this war damages Hezbollah more than the Lebanese government in the end; starting this fighting must reflect badly on them in Lebanon.

I agree with you that Israel may well lose this war, not militarily, but politically because of its utterly inappropriate over-reaction. However this article shows that they are currently as bullish as ever, claiming that the failure of the international summit to condemn them is actually a full-on permission to keep going

Quite typical reaction; but if no-one can come up with any kind of condemnation then it's hardly unexpected. It just shows no-one actually has the political backbone to do anything, and that Israel needn't worry about consequences. Not the message that should be sent out.

[x-dANGEr]

THere are some things that I just find need to be disproved..

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34003



http://beliefnet.com/story/195/story_19577_2.html



http://www.tau.ac.il/jcss/haaretz160804_en.html



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1908671.stm

Hmm.. I'm not sure then..