Replays

[Tamur]

hi all,

I almost hesitate to ask, but I've searched the forums and found nothing. Is there any official word on whether we'll have a working replay engine in M2:TW (campaign, non-campaign or both would be nice to know as well).

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I've heard nothing, so I assume it's just for custom battles (SP/MP).

I really want it for the campaign, and I never understood why it wasn't...

[Tamur]

That was the one feature in MTW that made the campaign really memorable. Recording custom games is nearly meaningless compared to the joy of re-watching that really tough fight against (name that faction) that tipped the balance between failure and success. Would love to see it return.

[Lord Adherbal]

the main purpose of replays in Multiplayer related anyway

[Ituralde]

I tried to get an answer to that question several times at the .com forums, but no developer deemed my threads worth an answer. I would really love for them to be in, but I don't have much hope left. The reason they were left out in R:TW had something to do with the engine, if I recall correctly, so with M2:TW using the same engine it will probably not be possible to save campaign game battles.

Cheers!

Ituralde

[Dooz]

Unfortunately, seems like they won't be in. If they didn't answer any of the threads, and it's using the same engine, looks like a no. :(

[B-Wing]

Oh man, I loved being able to save replays of campaign battles in MTW. Developers, if its not much trouble to impliment in M2TW, please do so! But if it would take any of the resources away from improving the AI, then I'd gladly sacrafice the opportunity to record battles altogether.

[ToranagaSama]

Well when RTW was released the lack of a recording feature was one of the top complaints. The developers feined surprise, saying the didn't realize how popular the feature was---DUH!

One can only surmise they somehow didn't note the number of uploaded replays in this forum and other fan/clan sites. Though, I suspect it has more to do with the at least half of the RTW developers were *new* to TW. Half of the experienced ones are gone.

Consequently, the feature wasn't designed in, and apparently must be a bit difficult to add as it was included in a patch.

Sooo, Wonderland may be correct, then again....

CA has gotten ridiculous with all this secrecy!!

[Puzz3D]

CA has gotten ridiculous with all this secrecy!!

Saying nothing about popular features not being included is better marketing strategy than saying the features are not included. That way they will get some sales to people who might assume certain features are included. For instance, campaign replays were in MTW, and there was no indication from CA that they were not in RTW.

In fact, prior to release no mention was made of any of the features that were dropped from the battle engine or that the full campaign game state was not being saved in a savegame file. No mention was made of the bias that's been put into the AI that makes it attack with weaker armies and weaker units, and that has had a disastrous affect on the campaign and the battles respectively. The bias that's been put into the auto-resolve for battles at medium difficulty is particularly deceptive and damages the game experience. You would think and would assume that any bias favoring the AI would come in at difficulty levels higher than medium which has always been the neutral setting for the series.

You can no longer assume that each version of the game builds upon the previous versions in such a way that the gameplay continuously improves. You have some features being removed, and some features being added without the AI being made aware of those new fetures. The multiplayer is a shadow of what it once was.

[Bob the Insane]

I remember asking this very question when RTW first came out and it was answered.

Essentially STW and MTW held battles on one from a library of pre-rendered maps. Essentially, for the replay, the orders on the field and what occurred are replayed on the same map. Thus the fun side effect of the outcome of replays changing after patching up...

But in the campaign game in RTW the maps are generated dynamically the first time you have a fight in a particular location (per game session??). The reasoning was that they could not guarantee the same map would load for the replay and thus it would be garbage. Now the historical battles are played out on pre-rendered maps and thus they can be replayed.

Now as this is basically the same enigne I will guess the same limitation will apply...

[sunsmountain]

You have some features being removed, and some features being added without the AI being made aware of those new fetures.

I think they wanted to attract new players to the genre, and then improve the new engine. Too bad they didn't take enough time to actually write all the necessary code, but hey, can't deny them credits for not trying.

Now as this is basically the same enigne I will guess the same limitation will apply...

That is my fear as well but if they want to bring back the joy of sharing our battles with each other, and if it's possible to proram without having to tear up the code too much, i'm sure they'll hardcode it in this time. We can only hope. And moan of course, that helps

Good to see at least someone knows the reason why they left out the option. Random maps, gotta love 'em.... (and they're way too small too, blegh)

[CBR]

Standard MP battles just use coordinates based on the campaign map. The only difference is that in the campaign a map might have a roads/buildings depending on what has been built in the province. It should not be that difficult to include that in campaign battle replays.


CBR

[RJV]

Standard MP battles just use coordinates based on the campaign map. The only difference is that in the campaign a map might have a roads/buildings depending on what has been built in the province. It should not be that difficult to include that in campaign battle replays.


CBR

I remember when this first came up. A few folk here speculated correctly on the reasons for this, and one or two came up with a proposal for what to include in the replay file and how replays work (ie the information used in generating the map, rather than the map itself).

Now, I also remember the comment that CA made regarding their not realising the popularity of replays, and a comment that replays would more than likely be included in 'future' releases. Make of that what you will....

Regarding the silence on this, the poster earlier in this thread is correct in that from CA's POV it makes no sense to confirm the absence of certain features well in advance of release. For fans of that feature, it immediately casts doubt on the product as a whole, and that transmits itself across the forums. Whether CA/Sega care too much about forum opinion (in a business sense, not a personal sense) I don't know, but given that M2TW will likely be a mega-seller regardless of it's peripheral features (which, for little Johnny who has the game for Christmas, replays will certainly be), they are unlikely to revisit the game design stage to shoehorn these things in, and will be quite content with some forum grumbling about silence and secrecy.

Cheers,

Rob.

[Puzz3D]

Now, I also remember the comment that CA made regarding their not realising the popularity of replays, and a comment that replays would more than likely be included in 'future' releases. Make of that what you will....

It seems like they say that a lot, and then it doesn't happen. Campaign multiplayer was subject to that for years.

Remember the 'simultaneous turns' feature of STW that turned out to be sequential turns after players figured out how to test the game to see if the turns really were simultaneous? That turned into a 'maybe in the next release' feature as well. Well, the turns are still sequential. I'm still waiting.

[econ21]

Remember the 'simultaneous turns' feature of STW that turned out to be sequential turns after players figured out how to test the game to see if the turns really were simultaneous? That turned into a 'maybe in the next release' feature as well. Well, the turns are still sequential. I'm still waiting.

"Sequential turns" in STW might be a polite way of saying AI cheating. It did get toned down in MTW. At least, I always found STW frustrating (and difficult) because of this blatant cheating whereas in MTW it seemed more of a subtle balancing thing (giving a little boost to the AI).

With the loss of the risk-style map, I don't expect simultaneous turns to be implemented. However, it might profit from more of a "reaction move" type innovation (e.g. widening the circle within which armies reinforce each other in battle) to limit the weaknesses of IGO-UGO.

[Fwapper]

Surely they realise the popularity of the replays? The ability to replay campaign battles is great, because the best replays are formed when you are suprise attacked by a much more powerful army which you heroically defeat, using stunning tactical ability... you just can't recreate that in a custom battle... well, I can't anyway.

I think (from reading some of the interviews and lark) that they appear to have been doing some listening to the fans, so I remain optimistic. :-)

[poo_for_brains]

I remember asking this very question when RTW first came out and it was answered.

Essentially STW and MTW held battles on one from a library of pre-rendered maps. Essentially, for the replay, the orders on the field and what occurred are replayed on the same map. Thus the fun side effect of the outcome of replays changing after patching up...

But in the campaign game in RTW the maps are generated dynamically the first time you have a fight in a particular location (per game session??). The reasoning was that they could not guarantee the same map would load for the replay and thus it would be garbage. Now the historical battles are played out on pre-rendered maps and thus they can be replayed.

Now as this is basically the same enigne I will guess the same limitation will apply...

I didn't like the maps in RTW anyway. Would it be possible for them to have a library of maps again, albeit a really large library, to enable replays again?
I think it would be worth sacrificing the random generation in order to have replays again. The random maps look largely the same anyway

[The Wizard]

I thought VI had replays for campaign battles?

Regardless, if CA wants to foster a healthy multiplayer environment, having a good system for replays is imperative (coming after a good battle engine, mind). Having that means having an active community surrounding the multiplayer mode, able to exist outside the clans as well.

I'd say if they want a greater income this would be the way to go -- instead of selling themselves out to the masses, a great MP mode that allows for easier access through a larger community centered on replays and the discussion surrounding them, and not just clans and their competitions, would attract more buyers. Worked for WarCraft III.

[Ludens]

I thought VI had replays for campaign battles?

It sure did.

Regardless, if CA wants to foster a healthy multiplayer environment, having a good system for replays is imperative (coming after a good battle engine, mind). Having that means having an active community surrounding the multiplayer mode, able to exist outside the clans as well.

I agree, but R:TW already has a replay function for MP and custom battles. It could do with some improvement though.