Jagged Alliance 2 Gold

[Bob the Insane]

Professorspatula, I was able to obtain a "JA2 Gold patch" from a link the Bearpit forums I linked to above (a forum search might track it down). IIRC this is effectively the latest version JA2.exe file. It might make your version from Steam work if you applied it - provided the problem is with the exe file and not with other files. Worth a shot, anyway.

I don't think it will. From what I read on the sites the issues with the Steam version are not so much bugs in the orginal software as they are issues with who Steam runs software in some sort of cached mode and it is data being inconsistantly loaded from Steam cache or memory and/or the orginal files that is causing the issue.

It is not as simple as the software just being provided by Steam, if you copy the Jagged Alliance directory to a different drive and try running the JA2.exe it simply errors stating it can't find Steam.dll...

The more i look at this the less impressed I am...

[professorspatula]

Maybe you should take that eMail and contact support at Strategy first...

Actually I just did... We shall see...

The point is though, Steam is the vendor/provider. They should be responsible for making sure the content provided is as described before passing it on to the end consumer, ie us. And they know there are problems. Whereas there is no way for us to know beforehand the problem that exists, so them passing the buck is just nonsense.

They've also deleted the post that contained the information from Steam support to further cover up their tracks. I can't wait to see what they say about the support ticket I raised with them. No doubt after about 3 days of waiting for a reply, I'll just get a, 'sorry it's not our fault, and you can't have a refund either' nonsense.

Does anyone know of any websites that tackle US consumer rights etc that can help us poor peeps if Steam continue to refuse to fix the game and refund us? I'm based in the UK, but with Steam being US based, I assume they'll only raise an eyebrow to another US site. Also do you know of any US laws that try to prevent this kind of thing from happening?


PS, I'd be interested to know what Strategy First make of things regardless. Although unless they supplied a non-working version of the game in the first place, it wouldn't necessarily be their responsibility anyway.

[professorspatula]

Bit of an update for all the 1 or 2 people who actually care about the Steam issue:

Support got back to me saying would I like to 'cancel the order'. It makes it sound like it's an ongoing transaction which is slightly odd as the money is paid and I have the game, or bits of what, whatever you can call the mess they let you download. If this means I can get a refund, then I'm sure as hell taking it.

They also said they are working to bring the 'Unfinished Business' add-on to the game, having not had the full gold content available at the time of sale. So basically when we bought the game, we weren't buying the Gold Edition at that time. They were intending to supply the content at some stage, but a question mark must remain on whether or not it's right to allow the customer to sign a binding agreement with Steam, whilst being unaware of any potential problems that Steam themselves already knew about. I suppose if you look into their user agreement, they cover themselves pretty well, but it's frightening stuff to be honest, and far from customer friendly.

Now I've touched the surface of JA2, I just want a fully working version to be honest. And after this, a non-Steam version as well. I've got some mercs I need to command, some people I need to shoot, and a country to liberate. And then I might go and load the game after doing all that!

[econ21]

The expansion, Unfinished Business, got disappointing reviews and is not very highly rated by the fans. If you want to buy a copy of JA2, you don't have to restrict yourself to the one that includes the expansion. Try to get a copy with a printed manual if you can, it's a decent one.

All this talk of JA2 is almost tempting me to go back to it, although I have got further with Fallout Tactics than ever before and it is actually growing one me (the quality of the missions does not seem to decline as I feared).

[Nikpalj]

Just found this thread and had to post a reply... JA2 together with STW and Birth of the Federation is one of the games that, like, shaped me into the person I am today (a loser)...

I still own the 1998 local computer mag CDs with the demo of JA2, I remember there was a realy annoying (lethal) bug - your character couldn't open any doors while crouching, I almost didn't buy the game when it appeared because of this because it totally killed the otherwise huge realism (and immersion)...

God allmighty, but I played that thing for what must be 20 times, enyoying it more and more each time that I played... time seems to go much, much slower when you're 17...

Absolutely the best part of the game for me was, is and forever will be is defending your sectors from invaders using one or two of your mercs (the cheap or free ones) and local millitia) - sometimes it seemed like an action movie (if it weren't for the dumb A.I. of the millitiamen and later on enemy squads with mortars and half a dozen shells. It's very good for practicing different tactics (enemies focus isn't solely on your squad) and I just couldn't resist it - I was always a kind of voyeur...

The thing that took me ages to figure out (and it's a lifesaver later on in the game) is that you can pick up the helo "bullseye" (the target-like marker where the new mercs are dropped of in that first town) and drop it anywhere within safe aerospace (not covered by Deidriannas SAM sites).

Also in the large building stuffed wit bandits maps (the hospital being the personal favourite) try this:
1) lay down a sniper right beside and at the corner of the wall with the main door (actually it's better to equip them with a regular rifle with all the scopes and stuff, snipers eat up too many ap's)
2) get an expert in auto weapons (and equipped with an auto weapon, he he) to sneak up to and open the main door in real-time (stoping right beside it), pull him up to the roof and make him crouch right above the door, a tile or two from the edge...
3) Wait... ;)

Just 4 fun - instead of his auto, make your roof guy use a rocket launcher!

As a general tip - think like it was you yourself there in the field while you're in action (specially in town areas), crouch or move prone where you would do this in the real world, run for short intervals where you would run in the real world... act as if it were your own skin. The experience will get much more immersive and in a short time you will find yourself playing the battles much more intelligently...

Use that *sneak* button intelligently, there are so many opportunities and ways to ambush an A.I., the game itself becomes a wonderful experience when you enter a map feeling absolutely confident, spend half an hour of your life playing cat and mouse with the poor A.I.'s...

Always, always put any kind of cover between you and the bandits! Even your own millitia are cover... ;)

Get your main character's STR to a low lev at start, you can rise it later by punching and kicking stuff. All the locked doors and stuff in various homes are good for this, punching to death unconsciouss enemies (remember that whenever you punch, kick or slash a bandit you eat up a modest amount of their stamina, like he was running around for a minute). Kicking the crap of all those poor cows on that rednecks farm in the midle of the map is a great way of increasing your STR!

Being missed by bullets (or hand to hand attacks) is a great way to increase your agillity! I remember crouching up with (high lev) Raven one time while she was on a rooftop, having 4 or 5 bullets and bursts miss her and her keeping her cool (not going to prone automatically) - I felt like a sword (rifle) saint or something - and her AG rised up for 2 points!

Use HP bullets (grenade or rocket launchers are even better) on those sabertooth tiger-like beasts! There's a travelling salesman that buys their skins and teeth...

All those breaklights actually have a purpose! Throw am at those Elite enemy troops that are dastardly hiding in the dark and picking off your mercs/millitia.

USE those portable water canisters to refresh your stamina, don't just collect and carry them around! These can be a real lifesaver. I remember I had one of my mercs carrying a grenade launcher crawl up for a few meters, under fire, to get closer to a bunch of trees behind of which two bandits were hiding. Well, on their turn there were now FOUR of them and they riddled my merc to pieces, destroying his maxed out body armor and half-killing him. The only way I could get him to drag himself back to cover on the next turn was by taking a swig form the old reliable water can...

Use those darn hand grenades - they won't do much damage but will severely drain the bandit's stamina and usually make them drop their weapons, those small shock grenades are even better at this! It's always more important having a bunch of bandits with 3 or 4 ap's (and your guys switching to auto), even for a turn, then having them all with 10 HP's and a bunch of stamina for them to use their weapons on their turn.

There are so many tactics you can apply... I remember putting my main character and Raven up on a rooftop to lure all the enemies into attacking them, at the same time circling with two or three mercs around the buildings (it was so realistic and exciting when they had to move prone in order to not be spotted through the windows, while my character and Raven were getting into more and more trouble!) finally getting them at the enemies rear (then having to wait that one damn turn in order for their ap's to fill up!), my mercs popping up from the buildings corners and filling the dumb unsuspecting AI's with buckshot...

Hooray - it's always good seeing that JA2 still lives - have fun, guys!

[Bob the Insane]

Well I have now acquired the boxed version of JA2GP via Amazon and I am well happy...

All the same shooting goodness with the finances working correct (which makes things a little harder) and object not randoming disappearing or respawning (which is just nice)...

[professorspatula]

I've got a proper boxed copy from ebay also. And everything works fine! Except the game crashes when I try to exit the game, but I hear that's a common problem.

Hopefully I'll receive my refund from Steam shortly also. I'm glad I managed to persuade them to give me one. Just a shame they refused to apologise, nor would they warn future customers of the probs.

[Ituralde]

As some other people here I found this thread and just had to answer it. How many countless hours have I spent playing that game? Well too many, I guess but they were all worth it!

I mean the characters are so well worked out that I wouldn't hire some of them just because I didn't like them. Or have you ever hired to mercenaries that just HATE each other. It's bad, but it's also fun for a while, although you can't keep it up for very long. The best thing I ever did though was while storming Chitzena I used that Cuban Bomb guy (forgot the name) ran up to the enemy, placed some C4 at his feet, ran away with my last AP and... BOOM! So much fun. I only finished the game once thouhg, as the end battles wer so tedious. I would start from the beginning 100 times though just to get this feeling while storming Drassen. Everyone up on the roofs or rather sneak through town. It's so much fun in the beginning where you can run around for cover and everything. Later it's see the enemy first or be shot into pieces.

Still an awesome game. Too bad you had those problems with Steam, but I'm glad they didn't keep you from enjoying this perfect game.

Has anyone here played Unfinished Business? I bought it in the hope of more JA2 mayhem. You can even continue with your save game from JA2, although it's a complete stand-alone campaign. I didn't have any savegames so I started a new game. Well, I got blown to pieces by the enemy on my second encounter EVERY time. I would have my 5-6 guys with their pistols and the enemy would come at me with LAWs and Grenades and Mortars and just completely shoot the crap out of me!

JA2 rocks really! Take your helicopter and get that Statue out of that Southern rich people town right after you've conquered Chitzena. It's just an awesome undercover operation!

Nice to see some people here have played it too, and really often I guess, judging from your comments and expert tactics!

[professorspatula]

Just about every review on Unfinished Business says the enemy are expert marksmen and the difficulty is ridiculous throughout.

Back to the normal campaign, and now I have the non-Steam version (ie a proper working version) it's hard to get used to playing the game properly. No more unlimited funds and respawning weapons. Bah! I'm currently out of dosh and training militia in Drassen, fully aware I'll never be able to afford to keep Lynx and chums when the week is up at this rate. Think I might need another restart.

[Ituralde]

Start out with the cheaper merchants in the beginning. One Medic, Some All-Rounder, Some Technician, Someone who can really shoot. That should be enough. Also look out for the Leadership trait, makes hiring people easier. Take Ira with you. And by the time you have enough money to afford the more expensive mercs you won't need them anymore because your guys are better than them. Especially the Marksmanship thingie is always skyrocketing.

If I didn't have to learn for some exams nex week I would just dig the game up and start it up myself.

[econ21]

There are different play styles - some clear maps with one or two mercs, but if you want a full squad, I would imagine Lynx would be too expensive as a keeper. I just took him for the day to get his rifle. He's good, but levelling up a rookie squad is half the fun, IMO.

[professorspatula]

Regarding Ira, I need a mod just for her - so she stops saying, 'You got my ear' whenever you click on her. She is the most annoying character in a game ever! I want to rip her ear off and stick it on mantlepiece and explain to her I thought she meant it literally.

[econ21]

Regarding Ira,... She is the most annoying character in a game ever!

Like Father Walker, I have rather a soft spot of young Ira. I would quote what she says about Deidranna at the beginning, but I fear I would fall foul of frogbeastegg. It makes me laugh every time though - coming seemingly out of nowhere and with a rather stilted delivery.

Functionally, she's not a bad character - high wisdom, IIRC, so she learns fast. A good militia trainer who could fight if I could put the effort in training her up, but I don't.

[Gealai]

Yeah, so many tactics so many tricks. Loved Scope and Shadow as my killercouple, however Ivan and Igor were by far the most funny chars. The voiceacting in the german editon was simply amazing.

Cheers

[Nikpalj]

Welcome to the machine of Igor Dolvich!
You can leave your message after signal... Here come signal!

[Ciaran]

Regarding Ira, I need a mod just for her - so she stops saying, 'You got my ear' whenever you click on her. She is the most annoying character in a game ever! I want to rip her ear off and stick it on mantlepiece and explain to her I thought she meant it literally.

Oh, I bet you´d just love Razor, then

The voiceacting in the german editon was simply amazing.

Indeed. A shame that UB let us down in that respect.

[Dorkus]

Let me just agree with everyone that this is one of the BEST GAMES EVER MADE. Amazing amount of strategy and tactics involved. And there are literally a million ways to play the game.

My personal favorite? Hire raven and make own merc with night ops and head straight west for the chitzena mine. Raven has a nice gun to start with, not to mention amazing accuracy, and she can take out everyone alone, as long as you attack the city in the dark. Once you get that first mine, you can basically head straight for the top mercs: magic, shadow, and scope are my favorites (since agility is hard to train). Grab the other two mines, and you'll soon be on your way to dominating the entire map!

[Dorkus]

oh, and one place where i'd disagree with some of the others is, i would suggest that you NOT play "tons of guns." It doesn't add much of anything to gameplay (there are already a huge # of guns, and the setting does not add any fundamentally new types), and it just makes keeping track of ammo more tedious.

[professorspatula]

I like the "Lots of Guns" option now I've got into the game. I really like being restricted to having just the occasional magazine for that new assault rifle I've found. Makes you appreciate your ammo more. Well, until you happen across a large stash of it or buy it off the internet!

I love the little touches in the game too - like the crows around the dead bodies (although why don't the people move the bodies that are cluttering up their streets... they incapable of doing anything for themselves?); how bullets ricochet off walls, trees and other obstactles; how people can be blasted off the edge of buildings and fall to their deaths!; and lastly, how your mercs comment when they completely brain another opponent with a lethal shot to the head! I witnessed Ira splatter the enemy's head and thought, that's pretty gross, and then she pipes up and says, 'Ewww, that's disgusting!'. I laughed and I laughed. Cos I'm sad like that! Still laughing now actually, 3 days later.

[Bob the Insane]

oh, and one place where i'd disagree with some of the others is, i would suggest that you NOT play "tons of guns." It doesn't add much of anything to gameplay (there are already a huge # of guns, and the setting does not add any fundamentally new types), and it just makes keeping track of ammo more tedious.

But then Demetri would be denied the rebels classic weapon choice, and AKM always looks right in the hands of a revolutionary...

Besides I play strategy games, I am into tedious...

[econ21]

Besides I play strategy games, I am into tedious...

Exactly my sentiments

BTW, Professor - have you tried crouching and sneaking up to the crows to thump them? It does wonders for your strength (something I have to economise on in character creation).

[professorspatula]

I thought most of the stat boosting 'tricks' were removed with version 1.12? Besides, I'm not going to mess around punching carrion bird to boost stats. If troops can't gain bonuses through normal use I don't care.

By the way, is it actually possible to sneak up to someone if you don't have the stealth skill? I seem to find whenever I try sneaking up to someone in stealth mode and crawling, as soon as I spot them and combat mode starts up, they automatically turn around and shoot me regardless. It was even more annoying when I tried to take a heavily guarded building at a Sam site. I didn't have any smoke grenades or tear gas or whatever, and couldn't enter the building without being shot to pieces as I approached the door, so I opted to blow up the outside wall near to where I knew one of the enemy were. Wall blasted, I thought I'd sneak up through the gap in the wall and surprise my enemy. No such luck, saw me coming. Annoyed, I thought I'd see if it was possible to sneak up on him and get the first shot in. About 20 attempts later, I managed it. I just couldn't get the son of a gun to not react as soon as I could see him. I tried things like having the other mercs running around in the opposite direction to catch his attention whilst my would-be stealthy assassin sneaked up on him; I tried throwing rocks; had one chap run past the doorway again etc etc, but still the enemy soldier always reacted first as soon as my merc approached the gap in the wall. Although I try to move my mercs around in stealth mode before battle starts, I more or less find it utterly pointless as the enemy seems to always instinctively react. What am I doing wrong? By the way - that was in novice mode as well. I played in experienced mode all the other times, but felt like removing a bit of the challenge to ease me back into the game after having to restart 5-6 times when I had the stupid Steam version of the game.

[econ21]

Yes, don't punch crows. Before you know it, you'll be beating up innocent cows in the fields and even annoying sweatshop owners, just to get +1 strength[1].

I don't know much about stealth - I find it works ok at range, but not close up. Facing matters (bad guys don't have eyes in the back of their head). I know what you mean about SAM buildings - the one in Cambria causes me fits. I've tried smoke but it does not help much. Blowing down a wall is a good move, but going through the hole might not be - perhaps charging in from the hole and the door is your best bet. Horde your mustard gas - it is very useful for some such situations. Grenades can also concuss an opponent out of sight if you can land them close enough to him.

[1]Although in my defence, strength only really matters for me for inventory and inventory management is a real pain later on.

[professorspatula]

Yea I think it was the Cambria Sam site. After getting shot to pieces by walking past the open door which I didn't notice at first, I reloaded and had Ice throw a grenade where the sniper waiting to shoot through the doorway was, but it didn't do much apparently. And blowing up the wall and hitting the same enemy didn't do a lot either. Eventually Wolf managed to sneak up on him and blow him away with his shotgun (heh Wolf is a legend, he already has 60+ kills in just a few missions, about 2-3 times more than the others). I'm convinced those AI have all-seeing eyes though. At one stage after blowing a hole in the wall and the smoke/tear gas (or whatever it is) went off in the building, the sneaky sods snuck out the doorway and crept up to my mercs by the gap in the wall and promptly began to pummel them with lead. Another reload (after my main merc got stunned and blasted to pieces by that damned super vigilant/teflon coated soldier), and I decided to cover the doorway, so when they tried the trick again, I'd be waiting for them. Of course, the AI then decided not to pull of it's sneaky tactic. I reloaded it a couple of times just to see if it would fall for my ambush, but of course it didn't. Hmm. Anyway, the Sam site was secure in the end, and poor old Elliot got another smack in the face for his troubles. Poor sod!

[Husar]

Hmm, I tried the stealth approach myself and have to say it works only with quicksave and quickload. If your soldier has the stealth skill and the right attributes, he can successfully sneak up from behind, whether the enemy turns depends on whether you make a sound or not(which again depends on skill) and the soldier´s somewhat random movement. It´s especially funny with a good throwing ability(throwing knives into the back) and/or martial arts skill(punch him to death with nice animations). I once specialized on that and it worked very well. If you take a silenced automatic gun you need to quickload less often because should the victim turn around, blow him away. But throwing and punching give dexterity and strength. Fight at night only with that tactic, with UV goggles you can evade enemies more successfully later on(if you have a nightfighter ability as well, you can see them even earlier).

Doing this can feel like a different game because you have to get the enemy alone, have to evade being spotted and have to kill in one turn so he cannot call reinforcements or shoot so everybody comes running towards you, but it does definitely work and can be lots of fun.

One thing though I´m not sure about, once you come to Deidranna´s palace the enemies are really good, deadly and well equipped, i have no idea whether it still works towards the end, I usually stopped playing before that.

And concerning the super abilities of enemies, who gets the first turn is decided by the situation and the individual soldiers´ Level. If the guy behind the door has a level higher than that of your mercenary and you come around the corner he is watching, he´ll most likely get the turn. If your mercenary has a higher level compared to the hiding guy, you are more likely to get the turn, so in such a situation you should try using your merc with the highest level to get the first turn.

[professorspatula]

Interesting about the level thing and sequence, I'll have to consider that.

But regarding stealth, I still tend to find my chap wearing UV Googles will spot the enemy first, and the enemy will have his back to him. But as I'm not close enough to get the enemy without making a mess of things, I hit next turn. And lo and behold, Johnny Bad-Guy turns around and starts shooting at me. It just seems once combat mode is initiated the AI knows you're there. Or maybe I've just been unlucky. I also gave up on knives when Dimitri, the 'expert' knife thrower does a mean average of about 7 damage to the back of the enemy's head.

Night ops are also becoming a chore now that they're throwing chemical break lights at my troops all the time also. And can someone please reassure me (without giving too much away) that in the late game, the enemy isn't launching 100 rockets and missiles and what not at you. That is the typical thing that happens in these kind of games, and the type of thing that makes the games crap. I remember in the X-com games (Apocalypse especially), the missiles got so infuriating towards the end, I'd just charge a suicide squad of walking bombs into the heart of the enemy and hope to blow as many of them up as I could before my veterans arrive on the scene.

[econ21]

Like Husar, I tend to stop before I get to Meduna, where there are many hidden elite enemies with rocket rifles and tanks etc that are very punishing. Up until then, it is ok. Mortars appear when you reach Grumm and zero in on you unerringly. This means that camping is fatal - shoot and scoot becomes the strategy of choice - but they are not too bad.

AI use of breaklights is one of the improvements of 1.12, I believe. Before that night fighting was something of a turkey shoot. AFAIK, the AI does not cheat and know where you are. It tends to run to the sound of the guns but then looks around for you. When you have a night vision edge, they are deadmeat. Of course, you can use breaklights too.

[Bob the Insane]

Sneaking... I have not been able to sneak right up behine someone, but as my troops have gotten better I have been able to spot an enemy in sneak mode and crawling (the game drops into combat mode) but if I do not approach too close the enemy does not automatically notice my man who is keeping an eye on him. I will then spend a few turns sneaking my other troops into good cover position before opening up. The enemy just run through a set patrol route if they don;t notice you it seems. Tried getting close enough to through a surpize knife throw but it never seems to kill the guy so I find it better to get into cover position and open up big style with grenades and heavy gunfire...

Buildings... I have not had too many issues with the SAM sites but Grumm and it's factory buildings gave me a nightmare. One map had an elite and a bunch of guys inside a factory build waiting. PLus an elite outside with a Mortar which was a proetty nasty shock... I retried this battle loads of times but I just could not get in without lossing a lot of guys and I was a little short on grenades. I did it in the end by setting my guys up ready to rock and roll outside an end wall and set a couple explosive charges outside and blew our a large section of the end wall. Loads of autofire later and the odds where back on my side again... I keep reusing the tactic now for "campers"... Though the residents may not be overly impressed by us blowing chunks out of thier homes and workplaces...

[Husar]

I found that before throwing a knife one should always quicksave.
Some soldiers are dead with one knife in their neck while others die only with a knife in their back and depending on your skill you might need to get closer. Also keep in mind they do not kill directly if the enemy is alarmed.

If your mercenary was really quiet and the enemy turns around that is because he just wants to turn around, it´s more or less random. As I said, use quicksave. It may sound bad to make that much use of quicksave, but the random element usually requires this and I still enjoyed my night ops.

[econ21]

I tried to avoid quicksaving in battle, but the autosave feature can be a life-saver. IIRC, you have to create a file (could be empty) called "autosave.pls" or something in your JA2 directory. Then if you go to the load save screen, pressing ALT+A gives you the autosave for the previous turn and ALT+B gives you that of the last but one turn. That can save a lot of frustration.